Say "GoodBye" to MYTHICS

General Discussion
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06/20/2017 07:13 AMPosted by Chilandry
What if they just made mythic raid drops auto titanforge to max level while everything else only has a chance to do so?

I don't do that stuff so cannot comment, but i'd think the mythic raiders would be super happy to be sure that anything they got would be as good as it gets.


or just remove that system in general. I wouldn't mind if they just gave gem slots to all the raid gear though.
wf/tf is a content replacement... instead of coming up with new and exciting stuff people will re run the same crap for RNG hopes of tf/wf

Blizzard has gone the way of rehashing and milking old and current content over and over, theyve lost their ways with new and exciting stuff
The only change that I think was uncalled for is lowering the loot drops for lower keys. Lesser skilled players need loot too; I'd have just capped how much loot Titanforges so ilvl 910s chain running them wasn't so lucrative.

Encouraging players to push keys instead of endless running the same difficulties is a positive change for everyone but the, like, 100 people who were already pushing +21 and above on a regular basis.
06/20/2017 07:16 AMPosted by Dotzalot
wf/tf is a content replacement... instead of coming up with new and exciting stuff people will re run the same crap for RNG hopes of tf/wf

Blizzard has gone the way of rehashing and milking old and current content over and over, theyve lost their ways with new and exciting stuff


This goes back as far as BC.... People would run heroic dungeon over and over again every week even when Sunwell was released and people would still continue to run Karazhan as well, the first raid you got into.
06/20/2017 07:10 AMPosted by Dapsher
06/20/2017 07:06 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
...

Many of us who have been here from the beginning have realized this exact point at different times.

There is no prize for the waste of time you spend chasing something so temporary.


So sad when you finally realize that, but I still enjoy seeing the new content, farming rep when I'm in the mood or doing some of the old battlegrounds. I'd rather spend my time getting titles and achievements these days.

At least I can keep those for a lot longer than my old ICC gear lol


It is kind of sad. I think for a good two months or so I was really kind of depressed about it.

But eventually I began to play to have fun, and you know what happened? I played longer and kept my sub active longer as a result.

I wish that the devs would realize that 'fun', while subjective, will lead to a increase in the length of time that people play. You don't need to design the game around the extremely small percentage of people with no self control or willpower. They were always the first to quit anyway, let them go.
06/20/2017 05:03 AMPosted by Jahbrony
06/19/2017 11:29 PMPosted by Divinítý
So, ever since the the new patch came out, they really %^#$ over mythic dungeons. Specifically, not allowing players to get 2-3 chests, limiting chest drop items (gold, gear, ap) and forcing keys to stay in that specific dungeon until they complete the key in time. In other words, mythics are screwed. I have been in a lot of mythic groups and the general consensus is that these limitations have really no value anymore. At least bring back the 2-3 chests. Already lost a tank friend over this. Wow subscription, canceled. Thanks blizz, for fixing something that wasn't broken.


Its 100% working as intended. The system was absolutely broken as it was. The whole reason they did this was to curb Tf/Wf drops so that they can balance raids/content easier.
They have been on record saying that the Tf/Wf issue is difficult to balance, and they need to combat it in some way or another. They are doing two things to attempt to combat it.
When you are able to ENDLESSLY farm content that drops end game gear, and each drop has a chance to Tf/Wf to the sky, it creates a massive issue with balance raids. Do you balance for the gear that drops in the raid? Or higher? How do you balance? Increase damage/health? Make mechanics more punishing?

Take a look at EN, this is the first Xpac that has had such rampant Tf/WF, and its the first Xpac with Mythic+ where you can farm to no end. The VERY FIRST night that EN dropped, it was cleared on Mythic. Not the first 24 hours. The first 12~ hours. That night. It was embarrassing for Blizzard to have it cleared so fast, and the reason was people were able to farm gear endlessly and outscale the damage/health.

Then TOV comes around, they want to up the difficulty so people don't wreck it in the first day. They balanced around people out gearing the content, which was a poor idea because it became arguably the least successful raid they have released recently. No one wanted to waste any time in there to clear it since it dropped REALLLY poor gear for the difficulty. The gear was so bad for how hard it was, they actaully had to BUFF the ilvl drops. Even with a flat 5ilvl boost to all gear in the instance, it was still horribly balanced and no one ran/liked it.

Now we have NH. They are taking a different approach, they didn't want to balance by just raising health/damage numbers, so they made the mechanic extremely punishing. Small mistakes would lead to raid wipes. The downfall to this, is that when you start to get higher ilvl, the kill times didn't really get faster. The avg first kill is roughly the same as the following "farm" kills. This is because the fights are built around mechanical success or failure. Not damage/health.

Going into one of the last raid tiers, blizzard wants to be able to get it right. Or more right than the past, so they are not only lowering the Tf/Wf chances, but also limiting the number of dice rolls you can throw when endlessly farming Mythic+ by limiting chest drops.

They either remove Tf/Wf, or put a limit on Mythic+ runs. Both, which are a far far worse option than trying to limit drops. Yes it sucks, but its less sucky than the other options to prevent gear inflation.


The game is not just about raiding and should not revolve around raiding. Raiding should be a part of the end game content but shouldn't be the main focus. Without LFR raiding would be some of the least used end game content. Blizzard constantly putting out content that supports the hardcore raider and forcing raiding is getting old.

Rock on!
06/19/2017 11:36 PMPosted by Intrude
You're a higher item level than me equipped and have only completed 10/10 LFR, that's tilting. The mythic + changes are fine, I agree with their reason for doing it. Next they need to get rid of titanforging zzz.


Is this how you access whether someone has a point in a video game? By their raid progress or any sort of other junk. Holy crap troll city.

You must be totally geared out, be 10/10 of many types of content, high pvp rankings etc., otherwise commonsense and the ability to critique the content just........... isn't there. LOL!

Troll.
06/20/2017 07:20 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
06/20/2017 07:10 AMPosted by Dapsher
...

So sad when you finally realize that, but I still enjoy seeing the new content, farming rep when I'm in the mood or doing some of the old battlegrounds. I'd rather spend my time getting titles and achievements these days.

At least I can keep those for a lot longer than my old ICC gear lol


It is kind of sad. I think for a good two months or so I was really kind of depressed about it.

But eventually I began to play to have fun, and you know what happened? I played longer and kept my sub active longer as a result.

I wish that the devs would realize that 'fun', while subjective, will lead to a increase in the length of time that people play. You don't need to design the game around the extremely small percentage of people with no self control or willpower. They were always the first to quit anyway, let them go.


You sound a lot like me. Once I stopped being depressed about my gear and realized what else I could do I played for almost 2 years strait. Raiding is fun and if people enjoy doing M(Raid) more power to them. I'd prefer more world of explore and more questing to do. I can quest for hours a day. (I go back and do old xpacs quest achievements when I'm in the mood) I would like more stuff like that, but the game it was it is and I guess everyone can try to make the best of it.
06/19/2017 11:29 PMPosted by Divinítý
So, ever since the the new patch came out, they really %^#$ over mythic dungeons. Specifically, not allowing players to get 2-3 chests, limiting chest drop items (gold, gear, ap) and forcing keys to stay in that specific dungeon until they complete the key in time. In other words, mythics are screwed. I have been in a lot of mythic groups and the general consensus is that these limitations have really no value anymore. At least bring back the 2-3 chests. Already lost a tank friend over this. Wow subscription, canceled. Thanks blizz, for fixing something that wasn't broken.
While I agree that the reduced amount of items is frustrating when looking at it specifically within its own bubble - it's too good compared against Raids where you had raid loot lockout. M+ you can keep doing over and over and get similar gear. So the fact that you can get less per run on runs you can complete really easy seems to balance loot distribution a little more when comparing M+ to Raids.

This is also a problem due to TF and WF. People were doing easier versions that they could clear at a much faster rate in hopes of getting very lucky WF or TF. It's reduced risk and effort in hopes of getting better gear because you have more chances.

As for having to stay in the same dungeon until the key is completed in time - that's the same as Live except now it's better because the key doesn't deplete.
06/20/2017 05:12 AMPosted by Glaivebot
I don't agree with all of the OP's points. however

They increased the difficulty from additive 8% to multiplicative 10%
Then they raised the chest requiremnt to 15
This creates a brand new problem. People with great gear can do the 15s but they dont need them. People who need the 15s cant get into groups or dont have the dps to pull through.

Personally, I dislike this change quite a bit. The keystone change is nice, and not being tethered to a 3 chest is nice too. The lower qty of loot and the drastic increase in difficulty added together is punishing to lower ilevel folks.

If you're a H or M raider, this does not affect you as you already have the gear to trivialize the 15 content, meaning they did not do what they set out to do; make it challenging while being a source of progression.


I fully agree.

The problem is the BUFF they gave in terms of difficulty increase and requiring a +15.

That pretty much ends PUGS for higher keys.

TERRIBLE CHOICE BLIZZ.

Please fix ASAP
06/20/2017 07:20 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
06/20/2017 07:10 AMPosted by Dapsher
...

So sad when you finally realize that, but I still enjoy seeing the new content, farming rep when I'm in the mood or doing some of the old battlegrounds. I'd rather spend my time getting titles and achievements these days.

At least I can keep those for a lot longer than my old ICC gear lol


It is kind of sad. I think for a good two months or so I was really kind of depressed about it.

But eventually I began to play to have fun, and you know what happened? I played longer and kept my sub active longer as a result.

I wish that the devs would realize that 'fun', while subjective, will lead to a increase in the length of time that people play. You don't need to design the game around the extremely small percentage of people with no self control or willpower. They were always the first to quit anyway, let them go.


Exactly. It's like we're a bunch of donkeys being led around the grand canyon with a carrot in our face. To me Blizzard seems to think the carrot is what drives most players. For me however it's all about gameplay. Gear rewards wither and die rather quickly. Honestly the game (canyon) is beautiful and amazing. Get rid of the carrot (well not all of it but make it a bit less of a focus) and I'll still stay.

It's a great game and honestly the "carrot" takes away from the overall experience a lot of times. As long as Blizzard makes the carrot the sole focus people will endlessly complain about it. I feel like the people that design the game to be as addictive as possible forget something about skinner boxes and operant conditioning. That is that with social creatures most times social currency and interaction has more value and gratification longevity.

Rats that are isolated and have a button to spam that releases food/drugs die much much sooner than those allowed to more freely interact with others and their environment with less focus on the "reward button."

Sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent I haven't had my coffee >.>
06/20/2017 07:16 AMPosted by Taargon
The only change that I think was uncalled for is lowering the loot drops for lower keys. Lesser skilled players need loot too; I'd have just capped how much loot Titanforges so ilvl 910s chain running them wasn't so lucrative.

Encouraging players to push keys instead of endless running the same difficulties is a positive change for everyone but the, like, 100 people who were already pushing +21 and above on a regular basis.


I know what you're saying, but I disagree because it's possible to get to an ilevel suited for mid-level keys (+6 to +9 sort of thing), without doing any dungeons. You don't have to do +2 and +3 keys to work your way up, so you don't need more loot at those lower levels. World bosses, world quests, LFR, nethershard gear, etc.... there are tons of ways to gear up well past the ilevel required for low level keys.
06/20/2017 05:16 AMPosted by Jahbrony

Mythic+ as a whole system isn't really targeting the casual players. Its for the Mythic players who want to push their characters as far as possible.


It was intended to be an alternate form of progression for those who can't/won't raid.

Not as a supplement to raiding.

Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, has balanced it into becoming a side job for raiders who can overpower them and removed any sense of progression.
what the issue is about m+ now is low ilvl people that need to do them cant
06/20/2017 07:38 AMPosted by Shagalaginz
what the issue is about m+ now is low ilvl people that need to do them cant


Why cant they make their own group with their own key?
Exactly. It's like we're a bunch of donkeys being led around the grand canyon with a carrot in our face. To me Blizzard seems to think the carrot is what drives most players. For me however it's all about gameplay. Gear rewards wither and die rather quickly. Honestly the game (canyon) is beautiful and amazing. Get rid of the carrot (well not all of it but make it a bit less of a focus) and I'll still stay.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get gear. Yes, it resets every tier and expansion, but you're still feeling player progression and a sense of becoming more powerful within a single tier. Chasing gear also helps you get into raids and clear them when they're current. There's a huge difference between killing a boss when it's current and killing a boss an expansion or two later.

I'm glad I've been chasing gear since I started playing in Wrath because it enabled me to experience all kinds of awesome raid content when it was current. Progressing on Lich King or Garrosh or Blackhand felt amazing.

I do agree with you that there have been some unpleasant changes to the way gearing works (legendaries, super high TF, etc) but the core concept of the gearing design works pretty well and is still rewarding in a lot of ways.
They coulda just kept the 3 chest system the same and capped titans forges to +15 or +20 at most. Woulda curbed all this insane rng and still given people raid competitive gear.
06/20/2017 07:40 AMPosted by Dagher
Exactly. It's like we're a bunch of donkeys being led around the grand canyon with a carrot in our face. To me Blizzard seems to think the carrot is what drives most players. For me however it's all about gameplay. Gear rewards wither and die rather quickly. Honestly the game (canyon) is beautiful and amazing. Get rid of the carrot (well not all of it but make it a bit less of a focus) and I'll still stay.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to get gear. Yes, it resets every tier and expansion, but you're still feeling player progression and a sense of becoming more powerful within a single tier. Chasing gear also helps you get into raids and clear them when they're current. There's a huge difference between killing a boss when it's current and killing a boss an expansion or two later.

I'm glad I've been chasing gear since I started playing in Wrath because it enabled me to experience all kinds of awesome raid content when it was current. Progressing on Lich King or Garrosh or Blackhand felt amazing.

I do agree with you that there have been some unpleasant changes to the way gearing works (legendaries, super high TF, etc) but the core concept of the gearing design works pretty well and is still rewarding in a lot of ways.


I stated later that completely getting rid of the carrot isn't optimal. I'm simply saying a greater emphasis on other parts of the game might be better for it overall. There was a lot less emphasis on gear in the past. Simply because there was just less of an ability to spam the reward button. You pretty much got what you could get done in a week and you could relax and do other things. Now anytime not on your main is actually wasted potential.
06/20/2017 07:25 AMPosted by Dapsher
06/20/2017 07:20 AMPosted by Sweetpeaz
...

It is kind of sad. I think for a good two months or so I was really kind of depressed about it.

But eventually I began to play to have fun, and you know what happened? I played longer and kept my sub active longer as a result.

I wish that the devs would realize that 'fun', while subjective, will lead to a increase in the length of time that people play. You don't need to design the game around the extremely small percentage of people with no self control or willpower. They were always the first to quit anyway, let them go.


You sound a lot like me. Once I stopped being depressed about my gear and realized what else I could do I played for almost 2 years strait. Raiding is fun and if people enjoy doing M(Raid) more power to them. I'd prefer more world of explore and more questing to do. I can quest for hours a day. (I go back and do old xpacs quest achievements when I'm in the mood) I would like more stuff like that, but the game it was it is and I guess everyone can try to make the best of it.


The thing that gets me is the artificial time gates in place now. I just hate those things. I don't need to be kept from myself. When I do play I want to be fully engaged in it, and I find these artificial gates really detract from an immersion perspective.
06/20/2017 05:03 AMPosted by Jahbrony
They have been on record saying that the Tf/Wf issue is difficult to balance, and they need to combat it in some way or another. They are doing two things to attempt to combat it.
When you are able to ENDLESSLY farm content that drops end game gear, and each drop has a chance to Tf/Wf to the sky, it creates a massive issue with balance raids. Do you balance for the gear that drops in the raid? Or higher? How do you balance? Increase damage/health? Make mechanics more punishing?


All of that is Blizzard created issues.

TF? Blizzard

WF? Blizzard

"Endlessly farming"? Blizzard

Putting TF and WF in LFR and Normal? Blizzard

http://www.memorableplaces.com/mudwimping.html

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