Tired of playing blizzard's way?

General Discussion
Prev 1 13 14 15 19 Next
06/19/2017 01:40 PMPosted by Velara
06/19/2017 01:39 PMPosted by Sweetpeaz
...

It's not about fun, it's about making it take longer. All of their gating is controlled around the premise of 'pacing of content'.

Apparently little kids today are in capable of self control and need to have their hands held.

Yes you are absolutely right.

This game however was once all about fun. FUN . . .


It used to be a Blizzard core value that they honestly adhered to.

Now it's just a BS marketing thing, that they don't abide by.
06/19/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Nuzow
I think that blizzard basically fails at understanding we are actually customers and they are providing a product. They act as if they are in charge and they don't have to address the customer's concerns and needs.

Any other business would fail if they told their customers, "No, we decided how to flavor your food or we decided what color car you are allowed to buy." That is their attitude and until they hire someone at the top that understands the value and importance of the customer they will continue to have a very angry customer base.

Somehow they have taken on the attitude this is theirs and we are just along for the ride. That works for awhile and being so powerful they can extend that longer, but in the end when you have that arrogant attitude, sooner or later people will leave.

The movie industry does not produce what it wants to, but rather what the customer will buy. Blizzard must learn this and get off their high horse that they somehow feel they know what we will like, when it is forced on us.

I hate to break it to you but that's how businesses work. I work for a product company and we build our product for us and hope others enjoy it. We do listen to feedback but I'm sure it doesn't always feel that way.

We were recently approached by a very large health care provider who wanted to buy in for thousands of sales reps. The caveat being they wanted us to change the way part of our process works. Making that change would have benefited them and only them; for all our other customers it would have taken a lot of resources away from building features the majority could appreciate. What did we do? We told them no and they walked. We steer our ship not our customers. If we crash that's on us. Let that sink in for a minute. Blizzard is no different.

I have products I'm in love with and when the company providing them makes decisions I don't agree with it sucks. At the end of the day it's my choice to continue using that product. Like flying in WoD (I wasn't around for it but I read all about it) until users vote with their wallet it's unlikely anything will change. If you complain about a product and keep paying for it, what does that say? It says the problem isn't as big as you're making it out to be.

Temper your expectations. WoW is a video game not an essential service and you're only paying $15 a month for it. If your issues are that bad cancel your subscription and tell them why. If enough others do the same they will act on it.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

It's not about moving fast, it's about controlling your path and your journey.

WoW is an RPG...or it was. You shouldn't have to go exactly where they want when they want you to, in order to progress.

Maybe some people like RPGs on rails, but that's not what a sub based game should be.


Wow doesn't force you to go anywhere or do anything to progress. Up to you to pick your poison, in Legion more than ever too as all spheres of content drop massive upgrades, whereas before you were limited to raids.

Dunno where you got "rails". We have less now than in any previous expansion.


How about all those "raiders" who complained that they were "Forced" to do LFR during DS??? And that was a long time ago.

Problem is, is that people feel 'forced' to do all the content that is going to lead to upgrades. One of the reasons why I appreciated the Emergent Gameplay of earlier expansion when WoW had fewer systems of progression. Some days in classic I would just long in for an hour to do some mithril farming in Alterac and finish off with some Southshore vs Tarren Mill pvp - and that was fine.

Is it better now? Maybe, maybe not.
06/19/2017 01:21 PMPosted by Dagher
If flight is truly what lost this game a chunk of its subs...I don't know, that's just sad. Flight. The ability to move fast. Wow.
It's not. Anyone who pits the sub loss entirely on flying is an idiot.

The (general lack of) content itself is driving people away. The grinds for random rewards, the endless legendaries that drop at random. The fact that getting two crap legendaries means you're out of bad luck protection for getting any reasonable legendaries.

The issues are countless, to be honest.

If anything flying is more of like "I have to deal with this !@#$, and I can't fly? wow."


Thats not how it works. It continues. It used to be capped at 4. But they removed that. Awhile ago.

06/19/2017 01:28 PMPosted by Beraht
Dunno where you got "rails". We have less now than in any previous expansion.


I guess choosing what zone you want to level through at any time is rails... or the scaling of mobs to personal level is railing as well... People prefer Level specific zones and mobs at static levels?

06/19/2017 01:24 PMPosted by Spicolio
how about getting a selfie thing for a major patch for cutting costs??i agree 100% that most changes to this game has been to cut the cost of running it,remember when we needed a 4 to 6 hour shutdown every week to maintain the game?it is usually a 15 min rolling restart now ,why?? way less to maintain is why.


So one !@#$ patch from a few years ago is all the proof you need? And your assumption towards the maintenance time? I guess all the extra zones, raids, and content somehow means there is less to... actually, I have no idea what this means. People are truly set in their misinformed and assumption fueled ways.

LOL this forum never changes.
06/19/2017 01:17 PMPosted by Lienthras
06/19/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Nuzow
The movie industry does not produce what it wants to, but rather what the customer will buy.


This mentality is why we're going on our 5th or 6th Transformers film.....

I just think it's funny, many film buffs would view Hollywood's commercialization and obvious pandering to the lowerst common denominator as a bad thing.


Well, it does stifle innovation.

But the shareholders don't care about happy gamers as long as they pay.

The minute that the sequels don't gross what they should is when they will end that franchise.
06/19/2017 01:45 PMPosted by Sweetpeaz
06/19/2017 01:17 PMPosted by Lienthras
...

This mentality is why we're going on our 5th or 6th Transformers film.....

I just think it's funny, many film buffs would view Hollywood's commercialization and obvious pandering to the lowerst common denominator as a bad thing.


Well, it does stifle innovation.

But the shareholders don't care about happy gamers as long as they pay.

The minute that the sequels don't gross what they should is when they will end that franchise.

Yeah, which is why if I was a stockholder, I wouldn't be betting on WoW's future. I think we will see more and more of this time-gated RNG garbage until only the most devout Skinner-boxers remain. Doesn't appear to be enough to populate most of the servers though. . .
06/19/2017 07:53 AMPosted by Raiyyn
06/19/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Nuzow
"No, we decided how to flavor your food or we decided what color car you are allowed to buy."

First of all, food and a car aren't anything at all like a video game.

EVERY video game is made to play the way the designers want to make it to play. It matters not if it's on Console, PC, or at an Arcade. I'm not quite sure why people who play World of Warcraft seem to think that the game designers are under some obligation to make every single change to the game every individual player asks for or why they have some odd misconception that somehow the game is supposed to be developed by the players rather than the game designers.

Second... I have news for you. Restaurants DO flavor our food. So do processed food manufacturers. The only time you get to choose every single ingredient, and all flavoring techniques, is when you purchase all fresh foods and spices that have never been touched by any kind of process other than butchering and picking off the tree (or vine, or from the ground, or whatever).

No grocery store or restaurant is going to close down because you want to choose the recipe used to create that Swanson TV dinner or that plate of fajitas. You're just going to have to buy foods and restaurant meals that better suit your taste buds.

Thirdly... Car dealerships DO choose what color your car can be by making only certain colors available. Some will allow you to special order vehicles, but you can only choose a color that the manufacturer actually utilizes in all areas the vehicle is sold AND you will often have to wait weeks...or months depending on how often the manufacturer accepts special orders...for your vehicle PLUS you will have to pay a deposit that is often non-refundable, or at the least will be held until the car is sold to someone else, should you change your mind.

You can't just walk into a dealership and say "I want a purple car!" and drive away in it because that's what you want if the only colors available in your area are Silver, Grey, Black, White, Red/Maroon, and Blue. It simply doesn't work that way.

Your analogies have more holes than a colander.


Your rebuttal also has issues. What frequently happens with WOW is more akin to us buying a purple car, then the dealer deciding they don't like the shade of purple and coming over and repainting our car. Or in the case of food, we've ordered the fajitas and get them and like them but the chef decides that it's not spicy enough and runs out and puts a bunch of spices all over the food we're eating.

Blizzard can, has and will continue to take our existing experience and modifying regardless of what we think.

I'm not so sure the majority of people are upset over the options that were available but more so the constant shifting of those options once we've picked them.

I do understand that the game is itself almost a living entity, prone to change, but I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of people who never wanted Survival to change (for example).
06/19/2017 01:43 PMPosted by Felnificent
So one !@#$ patch from a few years ago is all the proof you need?


One bad patch?

Didn't we just have what Ion said was the largest patch in the history of the game? Which amounted to 11 weeks of quests?

I'll tell you what part of the issue is. It's not the patches, it's not the game, it's the untruths being told or 'nuanced' arguments that are given by Blizzard for their actions.

How any of these people live with themselves after the things they say is beyond me. Not a single one of them have any integrity about their words being honest.
06/19/2017 01:43 PMPosted by Felnificent
So one !@#$ patch from a few years ago is all the proof you need? And your assumption towards the maintenance time? I guess all the extra zones, raids, and content somehow means there is less to... actually, I have no idea what this means. People are truly set in their misinformed and assumption fueled ways.
the poster said the changes over the last 2 expacs and that selfie crap is part of the last 2 expacs,and what are you ,some sort of blizzard white knight type player i hear about now and then that thinks every change blizz has made is for the better??almost everything outside of dungeon raiding has been nerfed or gutted and these are cost saving measures.
06/19/2017 01:50 PMPosted by Frayya
Your rebuttal also has issues. What frequently happens with WOW is more akin to us buying a purple car, then the dealer deciding they don't like the shade of purple and coming over and repainting our car. Or in the case of food, we've ordered the fajitas and get them and like them but the chef decides that it's not spicy enough and runs out and puts a bunch of spices all over the food we're eating.

You bought in on the premise of ongoing changes. That's what you pay a subscription for. You can't agree to those terms then get mad when the provider follows through with them.
06/19/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Nuzow
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752629119#post-1

I think that blizzard basically fails at understanding we are actually customers and they are providing a product. They act as if they are in charge and they don't have to address the customer's concerns and needs.

Any other business would fail if they told their customers, "No, we decided how to flavor your food or we decided what color car you are allowed to buy." That is their attitude and until they hire someone at the top that understands the value and importance of the customer they will continue to have a very angry customer base.

Somehow they have taken on the attitude this is theirs and we are just along for the ride. That works for awhile and being so powerful they can extend that longer, but in the end when you have that arrogant attitude, sooner or later people will leave.

The movie industry does not produce what it wants to, but rather what the customer will buy. Blizzard must learn this and get off their high horse that they somehow feel they know what we will like, when it is forced on us.

I love this game and the friendships, I just hate the way the customer is treated and ignored.
Ownership.
All rights and title in and to the Service (including without limitation any user accounts, titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, “applets,” transcripts of the chat rooms, character profile information, recordings of games) are owned by Blizzard or its licensors. The Game and the Service are protected by United States and international laws, and may contain certain licensed materials in which Blizzard’s licensors may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.
No Ownership Rights in Account.
NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY ACCOUNT STORED OR HOSTED ON A BLIZZARD SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY BNET ACCOUNT OR WORLD OF WARCRAFT ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO SUCH ACCOUNTS ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF BLIZZARD.

You agreed to the ToS
06/19/2017 01:50 PMPosted by Velara

Yeah, which is why if I was a stockholder, I wouldn't be betting on WoW's future. I think we will see more and more of this time-gated RNG garbage until only the most devout Skinner-boxers remain. Doesn't appear to be enough to populate most of the servers though. . .


Activision is a big company and wow is a small part of it.
Their new games are doing well as their recent acquisitions.

Wow is not their bread and butter.
06/19/2017 01:51 PMPosted by Sweetpeaz
06/19/2017 01:43 PMPosted by Felnificent
So one !@#$ patch from a few years ago is all the proof you need?


One bad patch?

Didn't we just have what Ion said was the largest patch in the history of the game? Which amounted to 11 weeks of quests?

I'll tell you what part of the issue is. It's not the patches, it's not the game, it's the untruths being told or 'nuanced' arguments that are given by Blizzard for their actions.

How any of these people live with themselves after the things they say is beyond me. Not a single one of them have any integrity about their words being honest.


It is ok if you don't pay attention to the news that comes out after the fact. Ion went on record to say "the largest patch ever" is based on all the things included, most of which are beyond "lol WQs and dun"

https://www.polygon.com/2017/3/31/15139962/world-of-warcraft-wow-patch-7-2-tomb-of-sargeras-legion-biggest-ever-developer-interview-blizzard

And then they clarified it a bit.

http://massivelyop.com/2017/04/28/world-of-warcraft-walks-back-claim-that-7-2-is-the-biggest-patch-ever/

They break down why they felt they could label it as such. I am not here to defend Blizzard, but to add my two cents to the meaningless dribble from people who see their perspective and project as fact. It is hilarious reading such angry and hostile responses from people who seem so freaking mad at a game.

Asking how they can live with themselves over their "lies"? These are the nuggets of forum greatness you can only find around here. Must suck to never have pride in your work and be excited to share your opinions on it. This isn't some bullcrap from bored developers. They saw the error in their words and owned it. They talked about. Hardly seems like running, hiding, or laughing on tops of cash at the "suckers" who are paying for it.

People want to say everything reflects cost cutting but nobody has offered anything to combat that. It is just personal opinion after personal opinion with almost nothing to prove it. You want cost cutting? Then we would see massive Layoffs. We would see slowed production. We wouldn't be seeing patches released as often as they have. We wouldn't see Voice Overs, or Phone Apps, or other things that require time and money to produce.

Until some of you understand what cost cutting in a company actually looks like, please stop. Its embarrassing to read.
06/19/2017 02:04 PMPosted by Felnificent

Until some of you understand what cost cutting in a company actually looks like, please stop. Its embarrassing to read.


The mission board and phone app are examples of cost cutting as opposed to designing and creating quests that the players do in game.

Anyone with a software background can tell you that is true.
06/19/2017 09:23 AMPosted by Django
Agree.

Behind every problem I have with the game is a heavy-handed Blizzard telling me the precise way that they intend for me to play THEIR game. (It most obviously is not my game in any sense.) There is no focus on the player as paying customer. Major QoL additions to the game, additions that make playing fun like flying, are taken away and placed behind insane, outrageous grinds. It's like enough of this !@#$.


Blizzard hasn't ever told you what to do when you log in, nor are they going to in the future, nor are they now. They design the game, you pay to log into the world and use your time as you see fit, within the confines of the game/world rules. It's always been their game, and you've always had the choice to pay if you like it, or don't pay if you don't.

"insane, outrageous grinds".... you mean like, doing things you would already be doing just by playing the game, things like completing the zone questline or leveling your reputations to exalted (you do this easily just by doing world quests)? There is literally not a single component to Pathfinder that was remotely difficult. The insane grind of exploring a zone? DEAR LORD MAN HOW COULD THEY ASK YOU TO DO THAT!!!!! Oh wait you already do it just playing the zone through one time. The only thing you really have to do is wait a few months. That's not a grind, you don't grind a single thing to get to fly, and you don't pay any gold for it either. You simply play the game like normal, maybe do an hour or two of content you wouldn't normally have done, and then you wait the timer out. Big freaking deal.

Posts like this are hilarious actually. The victim mentality.... wooh boy, I bet your grade school teachers are the reason you aren't a billionaire businessman too. Don't take any accountability for yourself, just blame others.

Major QoL improvements are taken away.... LOL. Oh man that's a great one. Over the years they have added:

- LFG
- LFR
- Flight (yes flight, remember, you used to be grounded permanently and it used to cost a small fortune in gold to buy a 100% speed ground mount, flight didn't even exist)
- Quest markers/quest tracker (no more reading the quest text to figure out where to go)
- Mousing over a mob now tells you if it'll drop the quest loot you need
- Portals to everywhere
- gold falling out of the sky for everyone who bothers to play the game a bit
- professions now level with new content, no needing to go back to old
- PvP rewards don't require 12 straight hours of gameplay to obtain top rank
- Cross-realm raiding/grouping
- ability to click a button and see all groups for open-world content across all servers
- dungeon journal
- gear up through several methods - Mythic+, raiding, LFR, world quests, world bosses, etc
- personal loot
- bonus rolls
- weekly loot chest
- catch-up mechanics
- valor point gear/upgrades

This list could go on and on, the patches over the years are littered with QoL improvements, the list above is not even half the QoL changes they have made over the years, almost all of them overwhelmingly simplifying the game, making it easier, faster, more efficient to log in and get right to what you want to be doing. And all you can do is complain about it? My lord the entitlement is astounding.
06/19/2017 02:12 PMPosted by Brockthorn
06/19/2017 02:04 PMPosted by Felnificent

Until some of you understand what cost cutting in a company actually looks like, please stop. Its embarrassing to read.


The mission board and phone app are examples of cost cutting as opposed to designing and creating quests that the players do in game.

Anyone with a software background can tell you that is true.


Nice little strawman. Mission board and phone app are about 3% of my gameplay.
06/19/2017 02:36 PMPosted by Phumbles
06/19/2017 02:12 PMPosted by Brockthorn
...

The mission board and phone app are examples of cost cutting as opposed to designing and creating quests that the players do in game.

Anyone with a software background can tell you that is true.


Nice little strawman. Mission board and phone app are about 3% of my gameplay.

SO not the point. Brock was demonstrating ways Blizzard has cut costs.
What progressive and responsive company would not want to be interested and communicative with their customer?
06/19/2017 02:36 PMPosted by Phumbles
Nice little strawman. Mission board and phone app are about 3% of my gameplay.

That's not really related to what they were saying.

Also barely related, Blizzard promised us the mission tables were entirely optional and would not affect our gameplay if we didn't do them. Except... they're mandatory.
06/19/2017 01:50 PMPosted by Frayya
06/19/2017 07:53 AMPosted by Raiyyn
...
First of all, food and a car aren't anything at all like a video game.

EVERY video game is made to play the way the designers want to make it to play. It matters not if it's on Console, PC, or at an Arcade. I'm not quite sure why people who play World of Warcraft seem to think that the game designers are under some obligation to make every single change to the game every individual player asks for or why they have some odd misconception that somehow the game is supposed to be developed by the players rather than the game designers.

Second... I have news for you. Restaurants DO flavor our food. So do processed food manufacturers. The only time you get to choose every single ingredient, and all flavoring techniques, is when you purchase all fresh foods and spices that have never been touched by any kind of process other than butchering and picking off the tree (or vine, or from the ground, or whatever).

No grocery store or restaurant is going to close down because you want to choose the recipe used to create that Swanson TV dinner or that plate of fajitas. You're just going to have to buy foods and restaurant meals that better suit your taste buds.

Thirdly... Car dealerships DO choose what color your car can be by making only certain colors available. Some will allow you to special order vehicles, but you can only choose a color that the manufacturer actually utilizes in all areas the vehicle is sold AND you will often have to wait weeks...or months depending on how often the manufacturer accepts special orders...for your vehicle PLUS you will have to pay a deposit that is often non-refundable, or at the least will be held until the car is sold to someone else, should you change your mind.

You can't just walk into a dealership and say "I want a purple car!" and drive away in it because that's what you want if the only colors available in your area are Silver, Grey, Black, White, Red/Maroon, and Blue. It simply doesn't work that way.

Your analogies have more holes than a colander.


Your rebuttal also has issues. What frequently happens with WOW is more akin to us buying a purple car, then the dealer deciding they don't like the shade of purple and coming over and repainting our car. Or in the case of food, we've ordered the fajitas and get them and like them but the chef decides that it's not spicy enough and runs out and puts a bunch of spices all over the food we're eating.

Blizzard can, has and will continue to take our existing experience and modifying regardless of what we think.

I'm not so sure the majority of people are upset over the options that were available but more so the constant shifting of those options once we've picked them.

I do understand that the game is itself almost a living entity, prone to change, but I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot of people who never wanted Survival to change (for example).


This analogy hits the nail so perfectly on the head.

These devs have a habit of finding things in the game that no one anywhere is complaining about, or even aware of for that matter, and decides to change them just because.

Most of the time they don't even mention it, but some player catches wind of it, and informs the rest of us. We as a collective group inform Blizzard we don't like the changes and they're not benefiting anyone. Yet it goes live anyway, just because.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum