Feral Druid T21 Set Bonus

Class Development
I'm going to do my best here to explain issues with these set bonuses, with specific regards to the 2pc and it's interaction with our execute mechanic and Saberooth talent:

Item - Druid T21 Feral 2P Bonus - Shred Increases Rip Duration (New) Shred has a 0% chance to extend the duration of Rip on the target by 0 sec.

Item - Druid T21 Feral 4P Bonus - Rip Ticks Proc Free Ferocious Bite (New) When Rip deals damage, you have a 0% chance to cause your next Ferocious Bite to be free and count as if you spent the maximum amount of Energy.


The 2pc

Back before Warlords of Draenor feral used to have something just like this, shred would extend the duration of our rip, it was a guaranteed effect, but only happened a few times before you needed to apply a new Rip. It proved to be rather buggy and was finally removed.

Extending Rip like that never felt great, it put an even larger burden on maintaining Rip on 2 targets properly, and I was glad to see it go.

While this bonus isn't inherently bad in a vacuum, the Feral spec is not a vacuum. This set bonus becomes meaningless once your target reaches 25%, at which point ferocious bite refreshes rip, and the extensions mean nothing. This problem is also extended to the Sabertooth talent, and basically just makes it a bad pick.

If I could offer a fix to the issues with the 2pc, it would look like this:

Druid T21 Feral 2P Bonus - Shred has a x% chance to deal extra damage equal to a tick of Rip on your current target.

You could alter this to be more than 1 rip tick per proc, or scale the proc chance accordingly to get the intended value. And the change would prevent the bonus from being worthless during execute or with the Sabertooth talent. Hopefully the damage proc would still count as a rip tick for the purposes of the 4pc.

The 4pc

The intention of the 4pc is rather clear, to help us cast Ferocious Bite more, and doesn't have any real clashes with anything preventing it from doing so. But I would like to suggest that the 4pc should make the Ferocious bite also cost no Combo Points if possible.

The main barrier to using Ferocious Bite is more the combo point cost rather than the energy, and during the normal rotation you might get a free FB proc and not have the combo points ready for it, only to get another proc before you could spend the first, resulting in lost value for the bonus, and making the "lucky" proc feel bad rather than good.

Random procs should be something that you can react to immediately, not something that you may have to wait 5-10 seconds to use, and have the potential to waste. And making the Ferocious Bite truly free would alleviate that concern, while allowing the actual chance to proc to be changed to tune the set bonus as needed.
The current intention of the Feral 4 piece bonus is that you get a 100% free in every way (except a GCD) Ferocious Bite.

This may change as set bonuses go through some more iteration throughout the 7.3.0 development cycle.

Thank you for the feedback.
Hey! Thanks for the clarification! A lot of us are pretty excited for the cool 4pc

Do you know if the free ferocious bite would proc predatory swiftness since it isn't actually consuming combo points?
An alternate approach, perhaps: 2pc extending Rake by 1s? Modern partial-tick technology allows this to work at arbitrary granularity, although I recognize that that may not be as obvious as would be ideal.
I know this thread is for Tier 21 but any chance we can get a revert to the T20 nerf? Feral is in the bottom half of dps and seems to slide lower and lower each week.
looking at that 2 piece bonus really makes me think of it as a copy of the current t20 4 piece everything about extending rip for every tier now ?
In light of today's announced changes to Jagged Wounds and Savage Roar, I question whether this 2pc remains interesting. Given a surplus of timer durations, does adding more into that make the interweaving of the Feral components more interesting?
Is Blizzard also looking at removing snapshotting? It's already gone for every other class these changes appear to be an effort to make the complex rotation simpler, I'm just hoping removal of snapshotting comes with it.
07/07/2017 06:40 PMPosted by Danto
Is Blizzard also looking at removing snapshotting? It's already gone for every other class these changes appear to be an effort to make the complex rotation simpler, I'm just hoping removal of snapshotting comes with it.


During the recent AMA, they said that they're reluctant to change it, but it's also takes up the lion's share of the "complexity budget", so most of the other mechanics available to us should be kept simple.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/6j2wwk/wow_class_design_ama_june_2017/djbgcj7/
07/07/2017 06:40 PMPosted by Danto
Is Blizzard also looking at removing snapshotting? It's already gone for every other class these changes appear to be an effort to make the complex rotation simpler, I'm just hoping removal of snapshotting comes with it.


Doubt that will ever happen.

Snapshotting is the core gameplay for Feral that differentiates it from Assassination Rogue.

Nothing wrong with it.
07/08/2017 01:29 AMPosted by Kraineth
07/07/2017 06:40 PMPosted by Danto
Is Blizzard also looking at removing snapshotting? It's already gone for every other class these changes appear to be an effort to make the complex rotation simpler, I'm just hoping removal of snapshotting comes with it.


Doubt that will ever happen.

Snapshotting is the core gameplay for Feral that differentiates it from Assassination Rogue.

Nothing wrong with it.


I would really like to avoid the removal of snapshotting at all costs, because that's really what differentiates a good Feral from a bad one. Anyone can play a melee affliction warlock (assassination rogue) but a good Feral will always be seen as someone who is able to properly manage snapshotting - Tiger's Fury, Savage Roar, Blood Talons.

It's not so much a matter of making the class easier as much as making it flow better.
07/06/2017 11:58 AMPosted by Nimox
The current intention of the Feral 4 piece bonus is that you get a 100% free in every way (except a GCD) Ferocious Bite.


Have to say that sounds like a nice, but potentially overpowered set bonus. Only problem I see at the moment, is that knowing how PTRs go, I'm not sure it'll go live as currently intended.

Reason I'm worried about that is because I've seen what happened to our T20 set bonuses.
T21 2p should be shred extends rip and gives it a chance to proc 1-2 bonus energy for 3 seconds.
OR
T21 2p should be shred extends rip and gives it a chance to proc an additional combo point.
OR
i think T21 2p should be shred extends both rip and rake.

I prefer the top choice. If feral was to start doing FB again inside it's rotation, we need more energy sources which is helpful pre and post execute phase.
[li][/li]

07/08/2017 04:21 AMPosted by Serrow
07/08/2017 01:29 AMPosted by Kraineth
...

Doubt that will ever happen.

Snapshotting is the core gameplay for Feral that differentiates it from Assassination Rogue.

Nothing wrong with it.


I would really like to avoid the removal of snapshotting at all costs, because that's really what differentiates a good Feral from a bad one. Anyone can play a melee affliction warlock (assassination rogue) but a good Feral will always be seen as someone who is able to properly manage snapshotting - Tiger's Fury, Savage Roar, Blood Talons.

It's not so much a matter of making the class easier as much as making it flow better.


You talk about it isn't a matter of easiness in the last sentence but your previous paragraph is just addressing good vs bad feral and how good ferals can manage snapshotting better.

If it is indeed an issue of flowing better where's your case for that.

Snappshotting really is one of the easier things to do in this game in my experience.
Is anyone else running into an issue where rake and other attacks while in Cat Form dont connect on the enemy. This happens more often in PvP and while in stealth and even my frequent if the enemy player is on an inclined surface. My internet connection is good as I am usually under 60 ms. This issue never occurs on my Warrior but will occasionally happen on my Rogue.
07/10/2017 03:29 PMPosted by Colozsus
Is anyone else running into an issue where rake and other attacks while in Cat Form dont connect on the enemy. This happens more often in PvP and while in stealth and even my frequent if the enemy player is on an inclined surface. My internet connection is good as I am usually under 60 ms. This issue never occurs on my Warrior but will occasionally happen on my Rogue.


i have noticed it in raid a few times but note sure if its attributed to being in front of the boss or not
07/07/2017 06:40 PMPosted by Danto
Is Blizzard also looking at removing snapshotting? It's already gone for every other class these changes appear to be an effort to make the complex rotation simpler, I'm just hoping removal of snapshotting comes with it.


If they do that just delete the class. The have already dumbed it down enough. To many people need two buttons with no procs or buffs...maybe they should try an NES it will be perfect for them only 2 buttons to use on the whole controller. And they dont have to use that confusing keyboard or mouse.
07/06/2017 11:58 AMPosted by Nimox
The current intention of the Feral 4 piece bonus is that you get a 100% free in every way (except a GCD) Ferocious Bite.

This may change as set bonuses go through some more iteration throughout the 7.3.0 development cycle.

Thank you for the feedback.


That makes no sense considering more often than not a 5CP FB will cause less damage than shred. Even with the recent changes. Frankly usually it is a waste of CP unless all your dots are over 11 secs and you are sitting with 5CP but this rarely happens anymore because of the stupid SR changes. Put SR back to the way it worked during MOP it worked way way way way way better. Then people would have room for FB in there rotation.

Overall this spec was way way more fluid in MOP ( it was utter garbage in Draenor beta and was the reason I quit playing until recently) and the best were so much better than the ones who couldn't manage the snapshooting with procs and stats. This is how the feral community wants it. But currently we dont get any benefit from using this class at all. It is harder than pretty much every other class but is at the bottom of the DPS charts?????
Um you have that backwards the harder the spec the more damage it should be able to do, period.

Why do you want people to use FB so much?? This is a bleed class which should always have buffed bleeds as a priority.
The 2pc definitely has some already defined issues, but that 4p actually seems promising, especially if we get good RNG in the execute phase. Although, I'm not a fan of RNG when it comes to DPS because it leads to inconsistencies for pushing bosses, killing priority adds, etc. I realize it "should" even out over time, but there are cases where bad RNG can make a huge difference as well.

07/11/2017 02:32 PMPosted by Jenkyl


That makes no sense considering more often than not a 5CP FB will cause less damage than shred. Even with the recent changes. Frankly usually it is a waste of CP unless all your dots are over 11 secs and you are sitting with 5CP but this rarely happens anymore because of the stupid SR changes. Put SR back to the way it worked during MOP it worked way way way way way better. Then people would have room for FB in there rotation.

Overall this spec was way way more fluid in MOP ( it was utter garbage in Draenor beta and was the reason I quit playing until recently) and the best were so much better than the ones who couldn't manage the snapshooting with procs and stats. This is how the feral community wants it. But currently we dont get any benefit from using this class at all. It is harder than pretty much every other class but is at the bottom of the DPS charts?????
Um you have that backwards the harder the spec the more damage it should be able to do, period.

Why do you want people to use FB so much?? This is a bleed class which should always have buffed bleeds as a priority.


Are you snapshotting your bites with BT/TF/SR? FB without modifiers does indeed to some lackluster damage, but with modifiers can crit ~3m without Berserk, and I've seen ~3.8m crits with Berserk. Yes, this relies on the ability critting, but even if it doesn't, it's still a significant amount of damage.

We also don't know exactly which talents will be taken in 7.3. The reason people want to use FB and Blizzard is leaning toward us using it is because the only other alternative is refreshing SR/Rip, which can lead to energy capping by pooling too much OR something falling off if we take the risk to FB pre 25%.

The changes for 7.3 and the new tier will promote using FB outside of just execute phase, as well as reward us with extra bites during execute phase, which is overall a net gain in DPS. Why are you so opposed to increased DPS that is literally free? The only real flaw with the 4p is the RNG factor and maybe some energy capping if we get good (yet bad) RNG with OoC, but Blizzard loves their RNG across the board, so we should be accustomed to this by now.

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