[Movie] Casters vs Warriors/DH

Battlegrounds
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So, I decided to play some of my casters to see how they could do against warriors and demon hunters in different situations. My conclusion is that although warriors and demon hunters are generally strong in 1v1s (with the exception of mage vs. arms) they are beatable as long as you don't make mistakes and/or exploit their mistakes.

I'm trolling a bit with the movie as I really don't think I could beat myself (equal skill comparison) on arms or fury while on my shadowpriest or warlock, but you should definitely be able to win some fights against your typical BG warrior and demon hunters. If you aren't able to win any fights at all, then you are probably doing something wrong or using a build bad for fighting melee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbyInrKNwds

I would only describe something as "OP" or a hard counter if there is a clear pattern where a bad player making mistakes can consistently beat a good player not making mistakes. IMO, warriors and demon hunters don't fit that definition.
sticky this so we can just direct all complaints there lol

also, too many people expect 1v1's out of this game. it's a very different game when you play healer/dps vs. healer/dps
Nice to see something counter to the usual circle jerking that's going on here. And with actual footage to back it up.

I pretty firmly believe the whole frustration people are having over melee classes is due to Blizzard only having added melee DPS classes, and giving pretty much every melee a 4+ second stun button.
To add to this, it really is a lot more noticeable to most people when you have a couple melee on you, in the center of your screen, making loud bashing sounds than having a couple casters standing on the edge of your screen 30 meters out, casting in relative silence.
07/15/2017 06:51 PMPosted by Buggylol
Nice to see something counter to the usual circle jerking that's going on here. And with actual footage to back it up.

I pretty firmly believe the whole frustration people are having over melee classes is due to Blizzard only having added melee DPS classes, and giving pretty much every melee a 4+ second stun button.
To add to this, it really is a lot more noticeable to most people when you have a couple melee on you, in the center of your screen, making loud bashing sounds than having a couple casters standing on the edge of your screen 30 meters out, casting in relative silence.


To some extent I can agree with this. It is much more obvious when you get charged by two warriors or deathgripped ect. Melee are just more in your face. And most of them have multiple stuns and ways of stopping you from doing things. To go off of that, another thing some melee have compared to casters is frontloaded burst. Your standard armswarrior ect. pops theri burst, maybe a saltwater potion or something and its charge stun half dead or worse. That really hurts. Either way, I don't really like playing a melee and have achieved good results with arcane and shadow for random bgs. (Though, shadow does not have the mobility to do well if your team is getting run over).
arcane mage is the best to 1v1 melee ROFL and goblin glider gank rofl you have three blinks and infinite slows ofc youre going to do well with a random noob booster warrior wobbling at you
07/15/2017 09:49 PMPosted by Toughface
arcane mage is the best to 1v1 melee ROFL and goblin glider gank rofl you have three blinks and infinite slows ofc youre going to do well with a random noob booster warrior wobbling at you

You probably opened the link and saw the first few clips and stopped watching.
There's other classes in there you goof.
07/15/2017 09:56 PMPosted by Reformedbob
07/15/2017 09:49 PMPosted by Toughface
arcane mage is the best to 1v1 melee ROFL and goblin glider gank rofl you have three blinks and infinite slows ofc youre going to do well with a random noob booster warrior wobbling at you

You probably opened the link and saw the first few clips and stopped watching.
There's other classes in there you goof.


afflic the next best caster specs vs random noobs in bgs playing booster warriors that probably have no clue how to play warrior i i know for a fact any good dh warrior or dk vs a spriest is going to completely dominate the the spriest UNLESSS the melee makes tons of mistakes and the spriest plays perfectly this video smells of cherry picking best footage out of probably many many bgs but picked ones out how many times did he fail against the melee that have half a brain where are those videos melee are out of control anything that supports otherwise is a lie and i wont sit here and let fake news try to convince the public otherwise? granted he did say they are beatable if you dont make mistakes and exploit there mistakes so whats the point hes trying to make here? melee can make tons of mistakes but casters have to be perfect towin vs them making mistakes? im confused is he saysing there isnt a problem with wearriors and dhs but at the same time saying there are problems? i made a movie of when warriors get nerfed into the dirt with there stupid charge stun take half my life kick fear dead crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwwY9y6O3hw

07/15/2017 05:47 PMPosted by Oozo
I would only describe something as "OP" or a hard counter if there is a clear pattern where a bad player making mistakes can consistently beat a good player not making mistakes. IMO, warriors and demon hunters don't fit that definition.


thats dumb conclusion buddy do you have any idea how dumb that sounds youre saying that things must be at complete opposite ends of the spectrum your saying so its okay for a good player playing a caster that they are good at playing has to try hard and be perfect to beat a bad player and thats okay because you won vs someone that just hit 110 on their warrior and has no clue what the hell they are doing BUT that is all fine and dandy because you squeezed a win out of it with a class youve probably been playing for years with your ubber 7334 skills vs their teribad fails thats like saying oh well im 2700 roflcopter gladiator arcane mage vs a noob booster warrior bouncing around and i killed him after goblin glider ganking him so theres no problem with warriors its all good nothing to see here the fact that 50% of every game is warriors some times even 90 % of the games are warror dk dh there is an obvious problem worry for ranting i just hate how melee heavy cc stun crap pvp has become in this expansion its just not enjoyable i spend my entire time running and hiding and running and hiding thats not how it should be im like fleeing from crazed sword weilders every random bg if im lucky the crazed sword wielding people on my team are better than the crazed sword weilding people on there team nice video btw and thanks for the effort but i dont agree with you
I'm not reading any of that unless you actually finish a god damn sentence and use paragraphs.
07/15/2017 10:02 PMPosted by Toughface
07/15/2017 09:56 PMPosted by Reformedbob
...
You probably opened the link and saw the first few clips and stopped watching.
There's other classes in there you goof.


afflic the next best caster specs vs random noobs in bgs playing booster warriors that probably have no clue how to play warrior i i know for a fact any good dh warrior or dk vs a spriest is going to completely dominate the the spriest UNLESSS the melee makes tons of mistakes and the spriest plays perfectly this video smells of cherry picking best footage out of probably many many bgs but picked ones out how many times did he fail against the melee that have half a brain where are those videos melee are out of control anything that supports otherwise is a lie and i wont sit here and let fake news try to convince the public otherwise? granted he did say they are beatable if you dont make mistakes and exploit there mistakes so whats the point hes trying to make here? melee can make tons of mistakes but casters have to be perfect towin vs them making mistakes? im confused is he saysing there isnt a problem with wearriors and dhs but at the same time saying there are problems? i made a movie of when warriors get nerfed into the dirt with there stupid charge stun take half my life kick fear dead crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwwY9y6O3hw

07/15/2017 05:47 PMPosted by Oozo
I would only describe something as "OP" or a hard counter if there is a clear pattern where a bad player making mistakes can consistently beat a good player not making mistakes. IMO, warriors and demon hunters don't fit that definition.


thats dumb conclusion buddy do you have any idea how dumb that sounds youre saying that things must be at complete opposite ends of the spectrum your saying so its okay for a good player playing a caster that they are good at playing has to try hard and be perfect to beat a bad player and thats okay because you won vs someone that just hit 110 on their warrior and has no clue what the hell they are doing BUT that is all fine and dandy because you squeezed a win out of it with a class youve probably been playing for years with your ubber 7334 skills vs their teribad fails thats like saying oh well im 2700 roflcopter gladiator arcane mage vs a noob booster warrior bouncing around and i killed him after goblin glider ganking him so theres no problem with warriors its all good nothing to see here the fact that 50% of every game is warriors some times even 90 % of the games are warror dk dh there is an obvious problem worry for ranting i just hate how melee heavy cc stun crap pvp has become in this expansion its just not enjoyable i spend my entire time running and hiding and running and hiding thats not how it should be im like fleeing from crazed sword weilders every random bg if im lucky the crazed sword wielding people on my team are better than the crazed sword weilding people on there team nice video btw and thanks for the effort but i dont agree with you
You good?
07/15/2017 10:58 PMPosted by Reformedbob
I'm not reading any of that unless you actually finish a god damn sentence and use paragraphs.


tbh i really dont care at all what you read i type for me not for you take a hike and dont read it or read it if you want makes know difference to me whatsoever
07/15/2017 11:05 PMPosted by Toughface
07/15/2017 10:58 PMPosted by Reformedbob
I'm not reading any of that unless you actually finish a god damn sentence and use paragraphs.


tbh i really dont care at all what you read i type for me not for you take a hike and dont read it or read it if you want makes know difference to me whatsoever

wait so you just typed all that without intending for anyone on the forums to read it?
07/15/2017 09:49 PMPosted by Toughface
arcane mage is the best to 1v1 melee ROFL and goblin glider gank rofl you have three blinks and infinite slows ofc youre going to do well with a random noob booster warrior wobbling at you


1. There have been arcane mages on this forum complaining about warriors.
2. There is a thread on the forum that complains about warriors killing people in under five seconds. How fast did that warrior die after I put mark on him?

That is what the first clip was addressing.

For the other concerns, well that's a bit too much to go through right now. In my view I think there will always be classes or specs that have an advantage over some other specs. And I think a lot of the complaints on this forum have been way overblown and only a few of them are really valid IMO.

Of course, I lose some fights. Especially when I was first going out and learning the class, trying different builds, different macros and different keybind set ups until I started getting better. That is how you get better. You go out and you learn from your mistakes. You learn what the other person is doing that is giving you problems and try to figure out a way to counter it.

Right now on the shadowpriest (which is the one I've been playing the most) I don't feel that I am completely helpless against any class except for unholy DK. But, I'm going to keep trying to think of a way to fight them.

afflic the next best caster specs vs random noobs.....

thats dumb conclusion buddy....


I dont have enough life times to read all of the !@#$ I just deleted from your quote. All I can say is, triggered much?
07/15/2017 11:17 PMPosted by Buggys
07/15/2017 11:05 PMPosted by Toughface
...

tbh i really dont care at all what you read i type for me not for you take a hike and dont read it or read it if you want makes know difference to me whatsoever

wait so you just typed all that without intending for anyone on the forums to read it?
there is no intent at all involved in what i typed there is only reality of me not caring about what bandit or anyones thinks about it dont read if you dont want to read it if you want to thats your choice and your right just as its my choice and my right to write it
07/15/2017 11:19 PMPosted by Oozo
07/15/2017 09:49 PMPosted by Toughface
arcane mage is the best to 1v1 melee ROFL and goblin glider gank rofl you have three blinks and infinite slows ofc youre going to do well with a random noob booster warrior wobbling at you


1. There have been arcane mages on this forum complaining about warriors.
2. There is a thread on the forum that complains about warriors killing people in under five seconds. How fast did that warrior die after I put mark on him?

That is what the first clip was addressing.

For the other concerns, well that's a bit too much to go through right now. In my view I think there will always be classes or specs that have an advantage over some other specs. And I think a lot of the complaints on this forum have been way overblown and only a few of them are really valid IMO.

Of course, I lose some fights. Especially when I was first going out and learning the class, trying different builds, different macros and different keybind set ups until I started getting better. That is how you get better. You go out and you learn from your mistakes. You learn what the other person is doing that is giving you problems and try to figure out a way to counter it.

Right now on the shadowpriest (which is the one I've been playing the most) I don't feel that I am completely helpless against any class except for unholy DK. But, I'm going to keep trying to think of a way to fight them.


nah all i see is "there is no melee problem" typical blizzard brown nosing sorry im not convinced there is not a problem are you jugaa alt or something? sorry no ofence to you but im not going to sit here and buy your magic beans imconvinced there is a power/skill disparity so large between caster and melee atm that its game breaking for many people that people are actually rerolling warriors and dhs which you just confirmed by making videos of you pvping against fresh fotm rerollers or leaving pvp or just cancelling subs like you said you had to play perfectly and exploit their mistakes to beat them basically you have to be good at an arcane mage, affliction warlock or a spriest to beat a bad fury warrior or havoc demon hunter nuff said thanks we cant even lump all the casters and melee in blanket terms you played 3 caster specs out of like 15 of them also i did some armory searches on many of the players you were fiting against and they are fresh 110s that hit 110 in the past couple months your video proves nothing for example the warrior that you fought in the first fite 110 6/9/2017 no crap hes been playing max level warrior for 40 days lol vs an arcane mage that studied the class and took the necessary efforts to improve skill "like you said" on top of that he has only 1550 arena with whatever his main is and the dh was all over the place he never even touched you and you couldnt even kill the dh he was like whatever im not playing cat and mouse with you and you cut the video probably because you died im not buying the bs dude sorry it sounds to me you play a melee and got bent because people pointed out your class or what ever and went and doctored up some fake news propaganda video to try to say melee are not a problem with cherry picking fites cutting scenes before the fite is even over because you dying wouldnt support your argument
Reading your posts is painful

nah all i see is "there is no melee problem" typical blizzard brown nosing sorry im not convinced there is not a problem are you jugaa alt or something? sorry no ofence to you but im not going to sit here and buy your magic beans imconvinced there is a power/skill disparity so large between caster and melee atm that its game breaking for many people that people are actually rerolling warriors and dhs or leaving pvp or just cancelling subs like you said you had to play perfectly and exploit their mistakes to beat them basically you have to be good at an arcane mage, affliction warlock or a spriest to beat a bad fury warrior or havoc demon hunter nuff said thanks we cant even lump all the casters and melee in blanket terms you played 3 caster specs out of like 15 of them also i did some armory searches on many of the players you were fiting against and they are fresh 110s that hit 110 in the past couple months your video proves nothing for example the warrior that you fought in the first fite 110 6/9/2017 no crap hes going to suck vs an arcane mage on top of that he has only 1550 arena with whatever his main is


15 caster classes? There are a total of 3 pure caster classes, with shaman having a melee spec and a caster spec and druid having one of everything. Even if you add up all the caster specs it still only totals to 9 (healers arent counted as this thread/video is not addressing anything to do with healers). The video shows footage of him playing 3 of the 5 classes that have caster specs, and playing 2 of the most common ones. If you don't think that it would be just as easy if not easier to do what he does on an arcane mage on a frost mage you are high, and fire mage wouldn't be much harder either as long as you aren't dumb enough to GPyro into a spell reflect.

This wasn't a video intended to showcase him playing every caster spec in the game, it was made as a rebuttal to the incessant posts of mages, warlocks, and spriests complaining about how overpowered melee (specifically warriors and DHs) are. At this point if you are playing a mage and still dying to any type of DH or Warrior, you need to take a step back from pvp and figure out how to properly utilize your abilities to counter melee. You have all the tools you need to literally flawless 95% of the Warriors and DHs you will run into in a BG if you use your skills properly.
07/16/2017 12:34 AMPosted by Âlyrico

nah all i see is "there is no melee problem" typical blizzard brown nosing sorry im not convinced there is not a problem are you jugaa alt or something? sorry no ofence to you but im not going to sit here and buy your magic beans imconvinced there is a power/skill disparity so large between caster and melee atm that its game breaking for many people that people are actually rerolling warriors and dhs or leaving pvp or just cancelling subs like you said you had to play perfectly and exploit their mistakes to beat them basically you have to be good at an arcane mage, affliction warlock or a spriest to beat a bad fury warrior or havoc demon hunter nuff said thanks we cant even lump all the casters and melee in blanket terms you played 3 caster specs out of like 15 of them also i did some armory searches on many of the players you were fiting against and they are fresh 110s that hit 110 in the past couple months your video proves nothing for example the warrior that you fought in the first fite 110 6/9/2017 no crap hes going to suck vs an arcane mage on top of that he has only 1550 arena with whatever his main is


15 caster classes? There are a total of 3 pure caster classes, with shaman having a melee spec and a caster spec and druid having one of everything. Even if you add up all the caster specs it still only totals to 9 (healers arent counted as this thread/video is not addressing anything to do with healers). The video shows footage of him playing 3 of the 5 classes that have caster specs, and playing 2 of the most common ones. If you don't think that it would be just as easy if not easier to do what he does on an arcane mage on a frost mage you are high, and fire mage wouldn't be much harder either as long as you aren't dumb enough to GPyro into a spell reflect.

This wasn't a video intended to showcase him playing every caster spec in the game, it was made as a rebuttal to the incessant posts of mages, warlocks, and spriests complaining about how overpowered melee (specifically warriors and DHs) are. At this point if you are playing a mage and still dying to any type of DH or Warrior, you need to take a step back from pvp and figure out how to properly utilize your abilities to counter melee. You have all the tools you need to literally flawless 95% of the Warriors and DHs you will run into in a BG if you use your skills properly.


9 caster specs okay thanks you fell right into my trap i said 15 on purpuse even though i know it was wrong because i knew someone would drag their face in here and confirm he only did a sample size of 33% of the caster specs and the 33% that he used are of the strongest casters specs in pvp you are proving my point for me thank you for your assistance oh and if youre going to air "quote" me get it right next time

07/16/2017 12:01 AMPosted by Toughface
caster specs


07/16/2017 12:34 AMPosted by Âlyrico
caster classes?


no not classes i said specs in clear and plain english the rest of what you typed is useless due to you failing to grasp premise of what youre even trying to refute oh and title of thread is misleading it should say skilled player playing the top 3 caster specs vs noobs playing fresh warrior dh alts

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