Demo feels awkward.

Warlock
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Not claiming to be a pro warlock, or know a lot about balance. Just a general feel of this spec as a whole.

Everything is casted, and everything has a long buildup. So, not only you have to cast a lot to get your soulshards, that much is fine, you then have to cast to spend your soulshards for what is essentially a single target dot.

Putting demons on a target is not much different than putting a disease or a curse, they both slowly deal dmg over time. Why are they all such long casts?

It feels convoluted, in the sense that I have to cast every single one of my demons once, and then I have to empower them, and then I have to sacrifice their HP. Empower Demons and T's Consumption are essentially THE SAME THING. No need to have both tbh.

And, at the same time, it feels like the spec is missing something: an instant cast soul generator or instant cast soul spender. Heck, it's hard to play without Shadowflame, and Summon Darkflare even though those are the higher maintenance talents of their tier. Shadowy Inspiration performs better than Shadowflame, but it still does not gives us that instant cast on demand we really need. How are we supposed to tag mobs in world content, when others can kill stuff before we throw our first demon?

And lastly, the AoE is a mess due to the positional requirements. During the Wrathsteed scenario, I had to switch to destro, a weapon that I have way behind Demo, just because I could not AoE the imps fast enough as Demo.

To make the spec feel better, IMO:
- Make Dreadstalkers instant cast, instead of costing 2 souls, they generate 2 souls. Change all the lvl 15 talents to reflect this change.
- Prune Demonic Empowerment.
- Make Summon Darkglare + Hand of Doom baseline and our main source of AoE dmg.
- Allow us to have permanent Felguard + a second demon.


Overall, I love the theme of the spec. Summoning all these different demons is really cool. But man, it's annoying to use.

EDIT: saw this idea on another thread and I think it's amazing because it solves a lot of issues - Felguard is now up all the time (just like Hati for BM), and then we chose our second demon.

Having two demons allows us to have a proper VW tank, imp dispeller, stalker interrupt, or Suc CC, without having to sacrifice all the dmg that is tied to our Felguard. It would also make the permanent Infernal a more viable talent for Demo.

I also think two demons is very good for the fantasy of the spec. IMO, best idea I've seen yet; I can't believe I didn't think of it earlier.
Casting empower every 2-3 globals is super dumb.
I agree 100% with this topic.

This lock is my DPS alt. Since I have never really enjoyed Affliction, I tend to get stranded with Destro (which most people are playing) and Demo, which has a more appealing concept to me. However, I feel like Demo could use some basic elements which are the subject of the MP.

Also, as a Demo-in-training, can I ask, how do you guys keep track of your demons and Demonic Empowered applications? I have already read most mainstream guides. I mean, I am supposed to summon demons and buff them, but I have yet not found a feasible way to:

1. track the ammount of demons I have out before deciding to Empower them or to use the Artifact ability;
2. track the demons that are summoned that have not yet received the Empowerment;
3. track the remaining time on the Empowerment buff that was cast on each demon; and
4. track the remaining time a Dreadstalker/Darkglare/Wild Imp has to live

I know the default UI already does #4, however, I have tried to configure Weak Auras for some of those items, so I could visualize it all on an easier way, but I couldn't. I have searched here and there for WAs to import, but the ones I found are outdated. Please let me know if there are any that work, or even if there is an addon that could help me with those issues.
07/12/2017 03:18 PMPosted by Edwardus
I agree 100% with this topic.

This lock is my DPS alt. Since I have never really enjoyed Affliction, I tend to get stranded with Destro (which most people are playing) and Demo, which has a more appealing concept to me. However, I feel like Demo could use some basic elements which are the subject of the MP.

Also, as a Demo-in-training, can I ask, how do you guys keep track of your demons and Demonic Empowered applications? I have already read most mainstream guides. I mean, I am supposed to summon demons and buff them, but I have yet not found a feasible way to:

1. track the ammount of demons I have out before deciding to Empower them or to use the Artifact ability;
2. track the demons that are summoned that have not yet received the Empowerment;
3. track the remaining time on the Empowerment buff that was cast on each demon; and
4. track the remaining time a Dreadstalker/Darkglare/Wild Imp has to live

I know the default UI already does #4, however, I have tried to configure Weak Auras for some of those items, so I could visualize it all on an easier way, but I couldn't. I have searched here and there for WAs to import, but the ones I found are outdated. Please let me know if there are any that work, or even if there is an addon that could help me with those issues.


Not has a great WeakAura set up that counts how much demons you have up, shows the timer on your Empowerment, AND it gives you a rough estimate of your TKC.

It's also quite handy because of tier20's puppy refresher it has a little sound letting you know when your dogs are ready.

His WeakAura's.
https://wago.io/E1VeoE0DW

And other tips in general are here.
http://lockonestopshop.com/#!/Home/
I am not even really set on DE being the main issue right now. You can get in a good flow with it, but when you add in the ridiculous mana costs of DE plus shadowbolt I feel out of mana constantly and life tapping is ridiculous, especially in certain builds.
If demonic empowerment was a cool looking attack would people still hate it?
No. But it has no animation currently and feels like it does nothing. I think they added the new gold trait to try and make it feel like it did something. Unfortunately it inadvertently gave us DE spam. It feels akin to spamming lifetap all the time except with Demo we get to spam DE and lifetap constantly.
07/12/2017 03:36 PMPosted by Alijha
His WeakAura's.
https://wago.io/E1VeoE0DW

And other tips in general are here.
http://lockonestopshop.com/#!/Home/


This is fantastic! So much content. Thanks!

07/12/2017 05:14 PMPosted by Jackofdemons
If demonic empowerment was a cool looking attack would people still hate it?


I think we would be able to stand it more. However, I don't imagine warlock animations to be on any priority lists...
07/12/2017 05:25 PMPosted by Melchazzar
with Demo we get to spam DE and lifetap constantly.

^This.

:T

I hope they make changes someday...

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/88435402?t=20m50s
Yeah I agree. It feels like a LOT of buildup just to get things going, and all the pets you summon are just dots that you have to cast that last for an annoyingly short amount of time. Why go through all this when I can just switch to affliction and do essentially the same thing but instantly? Call Dreadstalkers should be instant, the pets should remain on the battlefield for at least twice the amount of time.
Demo feels awkward.

Like how the sun rises from the east?

NOOOO WAYYYYYYY JOSEEEE.

Who the hell plays Demo?

Like noone.

Oh gee I wonder why.
07/12/2017 05:14 PMPosted by Jackofdemons
If demonic empowerment was a cool looking attack would people still hate it?


Why do the demons need to be empowered in the first place? Rather cast more shadow bolts.
Out of the 3 specs that can be played demo for me is most certainly the hardest for me to grasp.

Very fun to level from the get go. But now max level and trying to gear her up I am definitely struggling to pull any decent dps numbers. I have almost 44 traits and currently 815ilvl on the tail end of completing the class hall campaign for my 3rd lock as I have 2 others that have...

But its just weak all over for me. Pet healing my god this is awful my pet takes about 2-3 hits and hes as good as dead.

I hate having to spam the hell out of pet heals and have my dps suffer. I am not even pulling 100k in 5 man normal I am bottom dps.

The old demo before they guttered the heck out of it was at least competitive this new garbage however for me right now is not.

Poor pet survival. Constant need to heal heal heal.

Lacks any strong damage ability and AoE where is that?

Is this spec to dependent on any specific legendary to perform well or always going to be lackluster until some changes are made.

I will gear her up some more and see how things go then but as of now if its still going to be wet noodle spec I will most likely bench this spec.
07/12/2017 10:38 PMPosted by Finkell
07/12/2017 05:14 PMPosted by Jackofdemons
If demonic empowerment was a cool looking attack would people still hate it?


Why do the demons need to be empowered in the first place? Rather cast more shadow bolts.


You need to cast empower as it increases pets health and haste so they give better damage. At least that is my take on it?
demo is arcane mage hahahaha..
07/12/2017 05:14 PMPosted by Jackofdemons
If demonic empowerment was a cool looking attack would people still hate it?

yes, it's a very stupid mechanic. The whole thing needs to go. Instead of empowering, I can just summon more, or do more dmg myself.
07/13/2017 04:35 AMPosted by Haronn
demo is arcane mage hahahaha..

I wish...

I play arcane is not nearly this awkward. For starters, there are no DoTs, you can get max charges instantly if you need (with orb, or arcane explosions), AND you spend all your charges instantly.

Demo has casted dots, casted resource builders, and casted resource spenders. Demo is a forced turret that slowly ramps up dmg. Arcane can do extra dmg if you turret up, but deals moderate dmg if you need to move.
07/12/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Drâgmaw
So, not only you have to cast a lot to get your soulstones, that much is fine, you then have to cast to spend your soulstones for what is essentially a single target dot.


soulshards, not soulstones

07/12/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Drâgmaw
Empower Demons and T's Consumption are essentially THE SAME THING. No need to have both tbh.


No. DE increases haste and dmg of your demons. TKC is your artifact ability that does a big chunk of dmg based on demons out.

And, at the same time, it feels like the spec is missing something: an instant cast soul generator....Shadowy Inspiration performs better than Shadowflame, but it still does not gives us that instant cast on demand


Don't use shadowflame normally. Shadowy Inspiration gives you exactly what you're talking about - an instant shadowbolt that generates a shard.
07/12/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Drâgmaw

How are we supposed to tag mobs in world content, when others can kill stuff before we throw our first demon?


Easy. Doom. Instant cast. Bind it to something, tab around, doom, doom, doom.

07/12/2017 02:18 PMPosted by Drâgmaw
And lastly, the AoE is a mess due to the positional requirements. During the Wrathsteed scenario, I had to switch to destro, a weapon that I have way behind Demo, just because I could not AoE the imps fast enough as Demo.


Demo has excellent sustained AoE. When things are not stacked, ID is the talent you're looking for. Add darkglare to that and use it on CD - making sure you have doom up on everything first. For stacking, ID + HoD. Implosion is another option. Yes, demo AoE takes a little bit more effort. Use demonwrath at 3+ (ideally 4+) targets to generate shards - it doesn't do a ton of dmg. It's a generator.

As for your suggestions, people echo a lot of things you said. I personally don't want big changes to demo, but I'm pretty sure they will be coming next xpac. My concern are the things that people don't intend when they suggest these changes - things like instant cast dreads, for example, would require a nerf to dreads. Removing DE/reworking DE also would require a rework to demon damage. Etc, etc. Blizzard would have to do a lot of number tuning. Maybe they get it right; maybe they don't.

I know a lot of locks played it in WoD and that's the version they love - but it was changed for a reason - OP and too many locks playing it. Of course, 80% of locks (or maybe more) are currently aff, but I don't think Blizz is going to do a dramatic rework of that.
And people with low ilvls who dislike demo - get some gear and some haste. You'll start to get it.
07/13/2017 08:50 AMPosted by Baconator
And people with low ilvls who dislike demo - get some gear and some haste. You'll start to get it.
Bacon cant be downvoted by plebs anymore. The humanity!

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