LFR,N,H,M difficulties, Discuss.

General Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 19 Next
A lot of people in this thread seem to have serious problems with not having control on how others play or go about living their own lives. If I were motivated to be a good raider why would I care what the ones behind me did, I'm already ahead of them. This all stems from wanting to stand out when in reality no one really cares about your accomplishments but you.

I just don't logically see a reason for caring what someone else has or does. I read most of this thread and I just don't see it. This topic perplexes me enough to make a comment though.
07/29/2017 05:31 PMPosted by Verbatim
...

LFR SOO was easier than normal mode (by a large amount) but had pretty much all of the same mechanics. What happened was determination stacks were required to be maxed out to kill about half of the bosses. Giving normal difficulty to LFR types would be a disaster. There is a reason people make the requirements for actual raids very hard for LFR players to meet. Have you not seen the huge list of nerfs that needed to be done to nazgrim because LFR players can't do simple things like stop attacking even when it wipes them?

No i have not because i've done exclusively LFR for quite some time now. People at first wouldn't get not to stop attacking him but they eventually learned. It's like you people think that those who do LFR are some kind of idiot who are incapable of learning anything. It's this kind of mentality of 'git gud' that has really driven the community to be so toxic.


Yes, exactly. They actually never did learn how to do general nazgrim they just nerfed him so hard it might have appeared to you like they were getting the hang of it. That's the truth.
I know OP isn't putting down LFR, and that's great. But the default response from some people seems to be 'LFR can't handle tough mechanics blah blah' and in response to that:

It's a format that wasn't made to teach mechanics. But if Blizzard changed it...guess what? LFR players would LEARN the mechanics because it would be required of them to complete the task. People who do LFR aren't inherently BAD players. They are US. And plenty of us can handle regular and heroic raids.

So why do people get so up in arms about it and bash the people who run it? You put the effort in that's required, not much is required in LFR. That does not make LFR an inherently BAD thing.
07/29/2017 05:37 PMPosted by Demues
07/29/2017 05:35 PMPosted by Carebare
No i have not because i've done exclusively LFR for quite some time now. People at first wouldn't get not to stop attacking him but they eventually learned. It's like you people think that those who do LFR are some kind of idiot who are incapable of learning anything. It's this kind of mentality of 'git gud' that has really driven the community to be so toxic.


Durumu in LFR never got better


My favorite LFR boss ever.

It's a great rebuttal to the 'you can afk and still win in LFR' meme.
07/29/2017 07:11 PMPosted by Hrothknut
It's a great rebuttal to the 'you can afk and still win in LFR' meme.


It's also a rebuttal to intact bosses and LFR don't mix well e.e
07/29/2017 07:19 PMPosted by Demues
07/29/2017 07:11 PMPosted by Hrothknut
It's a great rebuttal to the 'you can afk and still win in LFR' meme.


It's also a rebuttal to intact bosses and LFR don't mix well e.e


True, but they could have nerfed the eye phase to not kill you/do piddling damage but they never really did.
07/29/2017 07:23 PMPosted by Hrothknut
True, but they could have nerfed the eye phase to not kill you/do piddling damage but they never really did.


That means gutting a MAJOR phase of the fight however, and according to these kind people in this thread, undermines the purpose of LFR as a "teaching tool"
07/29/2017 07:25 PMPosted by Demues
07/29/2017 07:23 PMPosted by Hrothknut
True, but they could have nerfed the eye phase to not kill you/do piddling damage but they never really did.


That means gutting a MAJOR phase of the fight however, and according to these kind people in this thread, undermines the purpose of LFR as a "teaching tool"


Exactly. The whole 'don't disrespect us we can learn how to do it if we need to' thing is just a lie. When it comes down to it they have always failed at this.
We go through the same thing over and over...
Do people not realize something.......

LFR had things that made people complain so Blizz takes away things, people still complain. It's the same with everything.

If you don't like LFR, go set yourself up with a Guild and run Normal stuff.

LFR is supposed to be easy. Not everyone is a Raider, not everyone has played 1000 days to understand how things work, and frankly people just stopped caring. So complaining about LFR this or that won't change Blizzards mind.

If LFR kept all of the mechanics, people would still complain, and if they kept all of them, why not just call it Normal... LULz.

Having mechanics set in for the higher difficulty is the reason for the higher difficulty, you can't practice it on the lower difficulty, it defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.
Maybe just have normal queueable as well? I don't think LFR is a teaching tool, it's just a different level of difficulty. There are new or different mechanics with each difficulty level? I think a good teaching tool would be expanding the proving grounds to having more realistic situations, possibly real encounters?
mythic needs dropped all together because after heroic,I'm sick of looking at those bosses.
Part of making the lower difficulties easier is making sure mechanics are not overly punishing. If you insist on keeping all mechanics, you're going to pretty much inevitably end up with situations where the mechanic is still too punishing–thus negating the purpose of the lower difficulty–or easy to the point of being trivial–thus negating the purpose of your suggestion. Given that Blizzard already generally leaves in almost all of the mechanics, aside from LFR, I suspect they're quite well aware of that and basically conserve mechanics as much as possible while avoiding those two situations.

07/29/2017 07:52 PMPosted by Drakulá
mythic needs dropped all together because after heroic,I'm sick of looking at those bosses.


This seems like a ridiculously egocentric view. If you're burned out on heroic by the time you finish progressing through it, feel free to just not do mythic. There's nothing forcing you to do it. Learn some self-control.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
No i have not because i've done exclusively LFR for quite some time now. People at first wouldn't get not to stop attacking him but they eventually learned. It's like you people think that those who do LFR are some kind of idiot who are incapable of learning anything. It's this kind of mentality of 'git gud' that has really driven the community to be so toxic.


Yes, exactly. They actually never did learn how to do general nazgrim they just nerfed him so hard it might have appeared to you like they were getting the hang of it. That's the truth.

But they didn't nerf him. People learned. Surprise!
07/29/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Nixxia

This seems like a ridiculously egocentric view. If you're burned out on heroic by the time you finish progressing through it, feel free to just not do mythic. There's nothing forcing you to do it. Learn some self-control.

Except the mounts that are in Mythic for a limited duration,the achievements that are put in.. I mean there's no reason for Mythic to really exist. Normal and Heroic are good enough.
07/29/2017 05:50 PMPosted by Speckoh
And it's not supposed to be linear. If we compare difficulty increases from back then, Normal -> heroic was an exponential increase in wipes in almost all encounters

Also, LFR bosses are meant to be one shotted, normal+ are not


OK, now I understand where you're coming from. Whereas I'd like to see Linear progression, you just don't care.

During WotLK, it was Linear regardless... only 2 points to connect.


What? Sunwell is the only instance I can think of with a truly linear difficulty curve and that was in BC.

Ulduar was pretty wild but settled into relative linearity once it was fixed and blizzard was done with knee-jerk buffs. Yogg +1 was one of the easier hardmodes but Yogg 0 was arguably* the hardest.

Northrend Beasts were harder than Jaraxxus and Faction Champs in ToGC. Anub was the only boss that wasn't trivial in ToGC though, especially after they nerfed FoK interrupts.

0% Deathwhisper was probably the hardest fight in ICC barring LK since the ghosts 1 shot you. Marrowgar, Gunship, Rotface, Blood Princes, BQL, and Dreamwalker were all potential one shots by top end guilds.

*Firefighter's original incarnation was bat!@#$
07/29/2017 07:54 PMPosted by Nixxia


This seems like a ridiculously egocentric view. If you're burned out on heroic by the time you finish progressing through it, feel free to just not do mythic. There's nothing forcing you to do it. Learn some self-control.


You can't just go from Mythic last tier to Mythic new tier though. You have to farm the !@#$ out of the new normal and heroic since normal is basically the same ilvl as the previous tier's mythic. I don't consider progressing blasting through heroic a dozen times in the first 2 weeks and that %^-* burns you out quick. I just reactivated 3 weeks ago and I'm already sick of N/H ToS.
They tired that once..it didnt go well op. Just let LFR be what it is, if people want to learn the fights they will just have to progress through them on higher difficulties and take their beatings like the rest of us.
07/29/2017 09:03 PMPosted by Carebare
Except the mounts that are in Mythic for a limited duration,the achievements that are put in.. I mean there's no reason for Mythic to really exist. Normal and Heroic are good enough.


Mythic is there to give the best players in the world content to go against. Normal is laughable to them as is heroic. Where regular players in a normal guild will struggle with heroic, mythic players will clean house in one go.
LFR should be made to feel as much like normal as possible for people who know how or want to learn how to play correctly. On Goroth you still should run behind the pillars when he does his big cast and if you get the arrow. Even though it feels like getting hit with a wet pine needle, it's still there to practice on. No need to put stress on the healers.

Desolate Host is a bad example of what to do in LFR. I would have had the host come out at 10% or even 0%, and standing in the wrong sundering spell would simply stun you for 2 seconds. This was too big a part of the fight to remove.

I honestly think Maiden is fine. The infusions on LFR cannot affect other players, because there is no place for that level of individual responsibility there. But having it to grab the correct color orbs is fine.
I wouldn't mind if LFR had all the mechanics (if all modes had all the mechanics) but they do less damage and aren't as punishing. That way I can farm LFR to learn the fights and learn the mechanics before going on to the next. Makes sense to me.

And, poor players who can't handle mechanics can just ignore them and the group wont wipe, so it doesn't make it any harder to do, but those who want to actually learn the mechanics can.
1 raid, 4 difficulties.

Not much content stretched into as much as possible because laziness!

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum