Demonology being fixed?

Warlock
How likely are the developers likely to fix demonology rotation and remove demonic empowerment (horrible designer spell) from the game next expansion or before it.
Very likely next expansion. somewhat likely for this coming patch *7.3.5* They really wait for the .5s to do major changes.
Next expansion, maybe, this one, close to zero. It's been a year since legion went live and this forum was filled with complaints about demo and how to fix, and nothing has happened. DE is such a horrible mechanic - u cast dots (summoned demons are essentially a dot), have to hard cast DE after every dot cast to make it do any meaningful dmg. Like, wtf? I don't know any other spec/class that has such a clunky mechanic.

At this point in the expansion it's very unlikely they'll make major overhauls to the class, I'd wait for 8.0.
demo reworks are an expansion tradition so get not maybe hyped for what comes next
09/04/2017 06:50 AMPosted by Dzyan
I don't know any other spec/class that has such a clunky mechanic.


Well the only other spec in the game that has to deal with something similar is Feral with Blood Talons and we know how many Feral Druids play the game.
09/04/2017 04:48 AMPosted by Demontune
somewhat likely for this coming patch *7.3.5*

Highly doubt it, since the set bonus for Demo involves DE.

That being said, I don't mind it. /shrug
Unfortunately, they aren't likely to do any meaningful changes until 8.0...however from my perspective it will always be a dead spec after it was butchered to make room for DH.
Demo functions, as for as if its enjoyable to a large audience? No, most people can't stand it; I don't mind it so I play Demo.

The only major issues I see currently, its bad for target swapping, and it is too reliant on lucky soul conduits to get the right number of shards for strong TKC hits.

Another issue is pvp related, we could use a root or slow effect so we can keep targets in range of our pets; fast enough enemies, like Demon hunters, can completely outrange our core damage and as a result nullify the bulk of our damage.
09/04/2017 02:13 PMPosted by Feverpitch
Demo functions, as for as if its enjoyable to a large audience? No, most people can't stand it; I don't mind it so I play Demo.

The only major issues I see currently, its bad for target swapping, and it is too reliant on lucky soul conduits to get the right number of shards for strong TKC hits.

Another issue is pvp related, we could use a root or slow effect so we can keep targets in range of our pets; fast enough enemies, like Demon hunters, can completely outrange our core damage and as a result nullify the bulk of our damage.


Hey man, you should check out my twitch for my demo tkc/implosion bursts :P i do play the regular zoo build but dont like it, so instead i play implosion, lots of funny clips of me blowing people up, take a look!

got glad last season 2650 running it so it does work and super fun to play, tbh ill be gutted if they rework demo and kill the implosion spec, but if its anything like the old school meta form+chaos wave etc id still be super happy.

twitch/nazumar
Man is there a whole lot of salt on these forums. Anyway, to OP...

It's likely to see some changes come 7.3.5, but major rework is subjective and it really doesn't need it. It's a great spec that can pull some great numbers, BUT, it has a high level of difficulty and it's subject to major DPS losses should any of a million possible mistakes are made. I played it solely up until recently (so much movement in ToS, that I couldn't compete, and since I mostly PUG raids from group finder, it's hard to keep your spot when you're lower than other Warlocks of similar gear/skill).

In short, the spec isn't a disaster as most salty negative-nancies here on the forum will lead you to believe. It is Ok, but to be competitive in a real world situation where mistakes happen, some of the mistakes need to be "not-so-damaging". A lot of this comes down to lack of movement capabilities in the spec. So...many....casts.....

Anyway, quit being so salty, people. Everyone thinks their class has something that's disastrously terrible about it, and "OMG THE DEVS NEVER PAY ATTENTION TO US AND WANT US TO ONLY PLAY X SPEC".
09/04/2017 04:07 PMPosted by Píê
Man is there a whole lot of salt on these forums. Anyway, to OP...

It's likely to see some changes come 7.3.5, but major rework is subjective and it really doesn't need it. It's a great spec that can pull some great numbers, BUT, it has a high level of difficulty and it's subject to major DPS losses should any of a million possible mistakes are made. I played it solely up until recently (so much movement in ToS, that I couldn't compete, and since I mostly PUG raids from group finder, it's hard to keep your spot when you're lower than other Warlocks of similar gear/skill).

In short, the spec isn't a disaster as most salty negative-nancies here on the forum will lead you to believe. It is Ok, but to be competitive in a real world situation where mistakes happen, some of the mistakes need to be "not-so-damaging". A lot of this comes down to lack of movement capabilities in the spec. So...many....casts.....

Anyway, quit being so salty, people. Everyone thinks their class has something that's disastrously terrible about it, and "OMG THE DEVS NEVER PAY ATTENTION TO US AND WANT US TO ONLY PLAY X SPEC".


You get that you essentially just said that people complain too much and followed it up by saying that you can't play your favourite spec because it can't even compete in casual content?

I personally like the fantasy of the current Demo with summoning lots of minions. If they addressed the DE being annoyingly spammy and made it slightly less punishing if mechanics or RNG just don't go your way it would be my go to spec.
I'm in the minority and prefer the new demo over the old one. I'm not a fan of demonic fury/insanity, etc. build up and I didn't enjoy meta. However, demonic empowerment is unfulfilling and boring to use, the spec is clunky with so many castables, demons don't last long enough.

Demonic empowerment got to be baked in with some other damage dealing spell and have a self buff. Better yet, remove the spell altogether and have the haste/hp bonus baked into our mastery.

Imps and felstalkers got to last longer

felstalkers got to be instant cast. I always jump with joy when I get flagged for pvp in argus because I can use insta felstalkers for a few minutes.
09/04/2017 05:40 PMPosted by Rubaducky
09/04/2017 04:07 PMPosted by Píê
Man is there a whole lot of salt on these forums. Anyway, to OP...

It's likely to see some changes come 7.3.5, but major rework is subjective and it really doesn't need it. It's a great spec that can pull some great numbers, BUT, it has a high level of difficulty and it's subject to major DPS losses should any of a million possible mistakes are made. I played it solely up until recently (so much movement in ToS, that I couldn't compete, and since I mostly PUG raids from group finder, it's hard to keep your spot when you're lower than other Warlocks of similar gear/skill).

In short, the spec isn't a disaster as most salty negative-nancies here on the forum will lead you to believe. It is Ok, but to be competitive in a real world situation where mistakes happen, some of the mistakes need to be "not-so-damaging". A lot of this comes down to lack of movement capabilities in the spec. So...many....casts.....

Anyway, quit being so salty, people. Everyone thinks their class has something that's disastrously terrible about it, and "OMG THE DEVS NEVER PAY ATTENTION TO US AND WANT US TO ONLY PLAY X SPEC".


You get that you essentially just said that people complain too much and followed it up by saying that you can't play your favourite spec because it can't even compete in casual content?

I personally like the fantasy of the current Demo with summoning lots of minions. If they addressed the DE being annoyingly spammy and made it slightly less punishing if mechanics or RNG just don't go your way it would be my go to spec.


Yeah, I guess I did...lol. Well, I'm pretty wishy-washy, so that doesn't really surprise me.
If you look at the timeline of things, it's obvious why Demo players are (and should be much more) upset. Demo was nerfed mid-WoD because the devs wanted players to get off the old Demo to get into a new Demo - a contentious choice. Throughout Legion beta, Demo feedback was all but ignored. To be fair, there were some "white knights" defending the spec, but I think they seriously missed the design and gameplay elements and focused on how Demo would function in raids.
When Legion was released, all Warlock specs (at least the average player) were below garbage tier. Warlocks were "useless", and EVERYONE knew it - no one wanted them in their groups. Roughly a week later, there was so much commotion that Ion answered a Q&A question of, "Warlocks?" http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/5962-Legion-Developer-Q-A-Ion-Hazzikostas But, the next week, the only change to Warlocks was an increase to three soul shards out of combat. It was clear from the interview and patch, the developers completely misunderstood why Warlocks were so frustrated. They literally had to comment about the amount (and type) of negative feedback coming from Warlocks, but could not satisfactorily respond because 'feedback was not organized well enough.' They discussed a few potential issues and fixes, but clearly missed the overwhelming majority of the feedback, only responding to what they could understand from their perspective (because in their world, Warlock gameplay was fine, just a few minor issues). One week later, all that changed was Soul Shards set to three out of combat. In a response to the continued collective complaints of Warlocks, Blizzard clarified that they were "still collecting data" (raids weren't even out yet), tuning passes would come, and that "trolling" isn't helping. Finally, the week after that, all specs were buffed from 10-20%, making up for nerfs that happened in the last week of data and validating the throughput comments Warlocks had, but still leaving design problems in place.
On top of all that, one of the stated goals of Warlocks in the Q&A was to feel, 'more tanky than the more mobile Mages.' One month later, talents are moved so that Demon Skin and Dark Pact compete because,

Demon Skin previously dwarfed its competition in nearly ever situation, and its combination with Dark Pact offered too much survivability.
While it may have been true, the juxtaposition of this comment, its timing, and the still lingering emotions of the Warlock community created more furor. Blizzard highlighted our newly found freedom to choose Demonic Circle, but also failed to mention that Demonic Circle used to be a base skill and actually has worse functionality as a talent. In fact, our talent tree is filled with options that used to be baseline - our talents only give us back what we once had.

Throughout the expansion, Affliction has been streamlined to be more like it was. Destro was purposefully made more like it was (why it was ever changed, despite Blizzard's promise that it was relatively unchanged, no on knows). But, Demo still feels unfinished. Blizzard nerfed Demo Warlocks in Warlords of Draenor to prepare them, but they gave us an unsatisfactory product and have not prioritized fixing it.

So, yeah, there's a reason Warlocks are salty this expansion. Our mechanics pass should have happened before Legion launched, but we might be waiting for the expansion to be over.
I was not happy about Meta being removed and given to DH's but was more than willing to give the Demo a try before !@#$ talking it. It wasn't horrible but there are glaring issues with it and a lot of warlocks expressed their concerns. Literally nothing has changed game play wise aside from bumping the passive shard count from 1 to 3. An entire expansion of development and that's essentially the only mechanic change we got. Whoever is in charge of Demonology did an awful job and should not work on it. It's bull%^-* we have to wait until the next expansion to see meaningful changes.
To me it needs to be overhauled because tkc also crestes issues if they add demons. I really wish thr devs had people dedicated to communicate on forums. Why give us a follower with meta as well. They have literally ruined demo. I miss fel as resource. Demo did so much better prier to this.
I hope they don't screw with the rotation/playstyle too much. I'm tired of re-learning the spec every expansion.
09/04/2017 04:07 PMPosted by Píê
Man is there a whole lot of salt on these forums. Anyway, to OP...


I think people use the word salt a little too loosely now. Which before when people were raging and name calling was considered salt, now simply having criticism about any aspect of the game is now considered salt. By traditional standard/normal standards, theres a lot of criticism on the forum but rarely any salt but by the weird standards that some people use here over 90% of the threads are salty ones.

All i see here is people genuinely voicing their concerns about the current state of Demo and their thoughts on the situation and some random person telling them they are salty.
I still hate the spec without meta. Its just too dead and boring. It went frfom fast paced wotlk to ramp up. To this crap. I think if they atleast revert they will be safe. To have warlocks feedback ignored since alpha is ridiculous. If your gonna fix a class fix it before a new expansion while we have time to play it before going into another expansion. The devs of demo in wotlk-mop were fine. This new team is just starting to seriously look like garbage. They already messed up with argus release, releasing it right after we have flying. What fun is that.

If demo has to change every expansion im ok with it. The main thing these devs have to start doing is listening to feedback. Not do stuff like create traits and tier that will make there demonic empowerment seem like its 100% needed. Its the crapiest spell that i hate casting.
I cant stand the spell. Its so stupid. The only thing worse than the spell is the god aweful sound it makes. It sounds like an orc scraping his nails on the biggest chalk board of all time.

Idk who the guy was that decided that was the sound empowering demons makes but he is either mentally challenged or completely deaf.

Other than that i really love the spec. I wish i could make it my main. I honestly can't play it because of that horrendous ear piercing sound.

I am absdolutely suprised they haven't removed that sound yet. No dev plays or cares about demo locks and that much is obvious.

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