Get ready for another wowhead rant

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Just to confirm, to this day: 9/6/17 Wowhead has STILL not fixed the issues that we have reported and complained to them about ad nauseam???

I'm going to cancel my Premium. I've been supporting them for a long time and was holding hope that they would fix their issues in time. Instead, according to this thread, they're resorting to shady practices. So done with them.
09/06/2017 08:09 PMPosted by Raifel
Said it before and I'll say it again.

Blizzard needs to end support for WoWhead and cut their links to the site until WoWhead cleans up their act. Other sites like WoWDB or Thottbot did more with less and did it well.


The the thing with WowDB is that all its items link directly back to wowhead so i dont think its that reliable if it sends you right back to that cesspool.
It's extortion - let's stop the petty personal slapfighting though.
AdBlockers are not enough for a ton of sites nowadays. As ad industries pay for them to whitelist their ads, you need to go with a script blocker.

Use NoScript if you have Firefox or ScriptSafe if you have Chrome. Take a minute to check out which parts of the website you want to block completely. Never worry about ads again.

Using a script blocker you get to choose what you want to block by yourself, instead of following the definitions of adblockers and risk having those devs get paid enough to whitelist malicious ads.
I don't call it extortion, no one is forced to use wowhead, and if you do, you are not forced to pay them to use it. Its a choice you make. I just happen to think its a lousy option.

Reason - the payment removes the ads. They are basically saying, we will get money for running this site one of two ways - either by you paying us to use it, or by advertising if you don't. The latter option wouldn't bother me at all if it were static ads or unintrusive ads. I used to spend a lot of time on LiveJournal and you could happily use LJ for free if you didn't mind the ads, which never caused any issues. Paying a small subscription took the ads away and gave you a number of extra options.

Its annoying that such a fine source of information is managed the way it is. They could easily run it better and satisfying everybody but the bottom line, as always, rules in business.
09/06/2017 09:07 PMPosted by Liovatar
I don't call it extortion, no one is forced to use wowhead, and if you do, you are not forced to pay them to use it. Its a choice you make. I just happen to think its a lousy option.

Reason - the payment removes the ads. They are basically saying, we will get money for running this site one of two ways - either by you paying us to use it, or by advertising if you don't. The latter option wouldn't bother me at all if it were static ads or unintrusive ads. I used to spend a lot of time on LiveJournal and you could happily use LJ for free if you didn't mind the ads, which never caused any issues. Paying a small subscription took the ads away and gave you a number of extra options.

Its annoying that such a fine source of information is managed the way it is. They could easily run it better and satisfying everybody but the bottom line, as always, rules in business.


It is extortion though. Esp when they dont care about how the ads are very intrusive . Sure no one ia forcing us but there is 0 other well informed sites out there .

They put a paywall on community comments .
09/06/2017 09:00 PMPosted by Snowfox
It's extortion - let's stop the petty personal slapfighting though.


It's clearly not extortion. Every definition linked in this thread has made that abundantly clear, including the ones linked by people foolishly arguing otherwise.
09/06/2017 09:16 PMPosted by Kítana
Sure no one ia forcing us


Then it's not extortion. You feeling like you don't have other options for such a nonessential service is irrelevant.
09/06/2017 09:19 PMPosted by Nixxea
09/06/2017 09:00 PMPosted by Snowfox
It's extortion - let's stop the petty personal slapfighting though.


It's clearly not extortion. Every definition linked in this thread has made that abundantly clear, including the ones linked by people foolishly arguing otherwise.

I'm using this definition, because it's the one google's "define:extortion" gives:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is incredibly high levels of Ads, including risky ones.
The thing they are obtaining is money.
The leverage is denying us access to player-made comments we contributed.

So, they are extorting players who want access to the comments of other players - by threatening them with excessively high levels of risky ads if they don't pay.

.. if we're down to arguing over the definition of a word though, then whatever.. we can use another word. "Pressuring", "intimidating", "being all fricking coy", whatever.

It's the sketchiness of pushing insanely high levels of ads to push us to pay that's important, not getting us to agree on the definition of a word.
09/06/2017 09:19 PMPosted by Nixxea
09/06/2017 09:00 PMPosted by Snowfox
It's extortion - let's stop the petty personal slapfighting though.


It's clearly not extortion. Every definition linked in this thread has made that abundantly clear, including the ones linked by people foolishly arguing otherwise.

When someone says "every definition " i automatically assume that you have no other evidence to go off on other then a small portion of the definition that best benifits you when you twist it to how you want it to be.

But the definition

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
synonyms: blackmail, shakedown; formalexaction

Does have $$$$ in there which means that indeed it is very well extortion .
09/06/2017 09:22 PMPosted by Snowfox
09/06/2017 09:19 PMPosted by Nixxea
...

It's clearly not extortion. Every definition linked in this thread has made that abundantly clear, including the ones linked by people foolishly arguing otherwise.

I'm using this definition, because it's the one google's "define:extortion" gives:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is incredibly high levels of Ads, including risky ones.
The thing they are obtaining is money.
The leverage is denying us access to player-made comments we contributed.

So, they are extorting players who want access to the comments of other players - by threatening them with excessively high levels of risky ads if they don't pay.

.. if we're down to arguing over the definition of a word though, then whatever.. we can use another word. "Pressuring", "intimidating", "being all fricking coy", whatever.

It's the sketchiness of pushing insanely high levels of ads to push us to pay that's important, not getting us to agree on the definition of a word.


Don't forget that because they're at the top of search and blizzard pushes wowhead down people's throats they have a lot more reach than just some random site right now.
09/06/2017 09:22 PMPosted by Snowfox
I'm using this definition, because it's the one google's "define:extortion" gives:
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.

The threat is incredibly high levels of Ads, including risky ones.
The thing they are obtaining is money.
The leverage is denying us access to player-made comments we contributed.

So, they are extorting players who want access to the comments of other players - by threatening them with excessively high levels of risky ads if they don't pay.

.. if we're down to arguing over the definition of a word though, then whatever.. we can use another word. "Pressuring", "intimidating", "being all fricking coy", whatever.

It's the sketchiness of pushing insanely high levels of ads to push us to pay that's important, not getting us to agree on the definition of a word.


The ads are not a threat in the appropriate sense, which is to say they are not an expression of an intention to commit harm should one fail to comply. High levels of ads are not a threat. Nobody has actually demonstrated the ads are in any way threatening, as opposed to merely annoying.

Furthermore, as I've stated repeatedly, you don't have to use Wowhead. If I set up a display of cupcakes on the opposite side of a marked minefield and tell you that anyone who makes it to the side with the cupcakes can have one or if you pay me $10, I will get in my helicopter and fly you across, I may very well be guilty of numerous major crimes, ethically questionable, and quite possibly crazy, but extortion would be nowhere to be found among those crimes because despite the mines being a threat, I am not threatening anyone and therefore I am not coercing anyone and therefore it is not extortion.

People have worked very hard to try to make the accusation of "extortion" stick, but as I've said the entire time, that accusation boils down to a lack of understanding of what extortion is and just because people are unhappy with someone doesn't mean they can accuse them of whatever they want.

09/06/2017 09:24 PMPosted by Kítana
When someone says "every definition " i automatically assume that you have no other evidence to go off on other then a small portion of the definition that best benifits you when you twist it to how you want it to be.

But the definition

ex·tor·tion
ikˈstôrSH(ə)n/Submit
noun
the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats.
synonyms: blackmail, shakedown; formalexaction

Does have $$$$ in there which means that indeed it is very well extortion .

[/quote]

This is why I asked you earlier if English is your first language because that is not an even remotely reasonable interpretation of that sentence. The mere fact that it deals with money does not make it extortion. Picking someone's pockets involves money, but is not extortion. Borrowing money from a friend involves money, but isn't extortion. Telling someone they're going to have credit issues if they fail to make their next payment involves money, but isn't extortion.

The primary components of the definition as laid out in your chosen definition are the attempt to obtain something and the coercion (the threat or force). The inclusion of "especially money," is meant to indicate that the word is overwhelmingly used when the thing to be obtained is money or that people often connote it in such a manner, not that there mere involvement of money is sufficient. It is not a necessary part of the definition and may or may not be included depending on the particular dictionary you look at.

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