Stat priority and Weights

Rogue
Currently Icy Veins has the stat priority at AGI, MASTERY, VERS, CRIT, and HASTE fos assassination. Does anyone know the weights of these stats or know where I can find them? I am trying to determine gear application.

Thank you.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot

Stat Weights
sim yourself

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats
Thanks Ald and OHGODSPIDERS.

/╲/\( •̀ ω •́ )/\╱\
Stat weights change from a variety of factors such a gear, talents, and fight type. Priorities like 'agi>mastery>haste' tend to be more stable and relevant for actual decision making, but not really stable enough to be a rule of thumb.

For instance, often adding one of a particular stat with deflate the relative value of that stat while inflating the value of others. Like, often times, increasing haste will cause haste to become less valuable and mastery/crit/vers to become more valuable. Remember that stat weights are the value of the next stats that you add, not the value of the stats you are wearing.

Or changing a talent can have relatively drastic effects on stat weights. Like going for a bleed heavy talent setup with asn will devalue mastery and haste because bleeds do not benefit from either stat.

The only accurate way is to use a model (shadowcraft) or simulation (simulationcraft) and use the appropriate settings for the type of situation that you want to optimize.

If you want to see how stat weight change, play around with shadowcraft and watch the numbers change as you modify your character to get a feel for what is going on. (Note: The outlaw model isn't particularly accurate right now.)

If you need to dig deeper, you'll need to use simc/amr to simulate your character. Simc is the gold standard, but that doesn't mean it will always be correct either.

These tools will only be as accurate as you are careful with your optimizations. But for most people, just going with default settings will be good enough.
I don't know what it is with the Rogue community or even the WW Monks, but they have some of the worst guides I have seen when you compare them to guides from H2P, Warriors, Locks, or just about any other community on Discord. Was looking at the Outlaw guide today from Discord, and for stats they basically have a link to Simcraft, and that's it! Makes me wonder if people are even playing the Rogue anymore. Seems all the high end guide writers have moved on to other classes or quit the game. WW Monk does not even have a link to a guide pinned on Discord, you have to find from from other places (Go to "Peak of Serenity" btw), seems we are being forced to use the add infested site Wowhead.
08/27/2017 09:01 AMPosted by Xoule
I don't know what it is with the Rogue community or even the WW Monks, but they have some of the worst guides I have seen when you compare them to guides from H2P, Warriors, Locks, or just about any other community on Discord. Was looking at the Outlaw guide today from Discord, and for stats they basically have a link to Simcraft, and that's it! Makes me wonder if people are even playing the Rogue anymore. Seems all the high end guide writers have moved on to other classes or quit the game. WW Monk does not even have a link to a guide pinned on Discord, you have to find from from other places (Go to "Peak of Serenity" btw), seems we are being forced to use the add infested site Wowhead.

Outlaw stat priorities are much more fluid than other specs. A simcraft link is perfectly reasonable. If you want a good pve guide, go here:
https://subtlety.guide/

Also, you're playing outlaw. If you truly cared about maximizing your dps, you would change specs. Worrying about stat priorities is pretty much a futile effort on your part.
08/27/2017 09:01 AMPosted by Xoule
I don't know what it is with the Rogue community or even the WW Monks, but they have some of the worst guides I have seen when you compare them to guides from H2P, Warriors, Locks, or just about any other community on Discord. Was looking at the Outlaw guide today from Discord, and for stats they basically have a link to Simcraft, and that's it! Makes me wonder if people are even playing the Rogue anymore. Seems all the high end guide writers have moved on to other classes or quit the game. WW Monk does not even have a link to a guide pinned on Discord, you have to find from from other places (Go to "Peak of Serenity" btw), seems we are being forced to use the add infested site Wowhead.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w3jLIjvkexpPoeRJY5EtHUezZZlDSK9pEySSYy6n8Is/edit
08/27/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Diusus
08/27/2017 09:01 AMPosted by Xoule
I don't know what it is with the Rogue community or even the WW Monks, but they have some of the worst guides I have seen when you compare them to guides from H2P, Warriors, Locks, or just about any other community on Discord. Was looking at the Outlaw guide today from Discord, and for stats they basically have a link to Simcraft, and that's it! Makes me wonder if people are even playing the Rogue anymore. Seems all the high end guide writers have moved on to other classes or quit the game. WW Monk does not even have a link to a guide pinned on Discord, you have to find from from other places (Go to "Peak of Serenity" btw), seems we are being forced to use the add infested site Wowhead.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w3jLIjvkexpPoeRJY5EtHUezZZlDSK9pEySSYy6n8Is/edit


Yes that is the one that links simcraft.
What an excellent response. Thank you all for your help. It has been most enlightening.
08/27/2017 09:24 AMPosted by Ohgodspïders
08/27/2017 09:01 AMPosted by Xoule
I don't know what it is with the Rogue community or even the WW Monks, but they have some of the worst guides I have seen when you compare them to guides from H2P, Warriors, Locks, or just about any other community on Discord. Was looking at the Outlaw guide today from Discord, and for stats they basically have a link to Simcraft, and that's it! Makes me wonder if people are even playing the Rogue anymore. Seems all the high end guide writers have moved on to other classes or quit the game. WW Monk does not even have a link to a guide pinned on Discord, you have to find from from other places (Go to "Peak of Serenity" btw), seems we are being forced to use the add infested site Wowhead.

Outlaw stat priorities are much more fluid than other specs. A simcraft link is perfectly reasonable. If you want a good pve guide, go here:
https://subtlety.guide/

Also, you're playing outlaw. If you truly cared about maximizing your dps, you would change specs. Worrying about stat priorities is pretty much a futile effort on your part.


Was looking at outlaw just to get to know how to play it. You never know what they are going to do in the next few weeks. As we have seen the actual balancing the last 2 or 3 patches has been via hotfix after the actual patch. Which screws everyone who has been trying to gear for a certain spec. Traditionally combat / outlaw has been top in the last tier for rogues. Been that way for a very long time. I would not be surpised to see Combat get buffed after the patch. Unless they plan to have another tier this xpac.

Outlaw is still quite viable in M+ though is it not? Seems with all the AoE I would think outlaw is the go to spec for it.
I'm not sure about mop, but I know for cata and wod, sub has been the top single target spec at the end of these expansions.

Outlaw is fine for fortified weeks, but falls behind somewhat on tyrannical. Since the last major sub changes, it has been the go-to spec for M+ pushing.
08/27/2017 11:24 AMPosted by Ohgodspïders
I'm not sure about mop, but I know for cata and wod, sub has been the top single target spec at the end of these expansions.

Outlaw is fine for fortified weeks, but falls behind somewhat on tyrannical. Since the last major sub changes, it has been the go-to spec for M+ pushing.


Sub was theoretically top in Cata, but positional requirements made that impossible, I mean some bosses yes, but over all it was combat. WotLK, Cata, MoP, all combat. MoP wasn't remotly close at all, and even when sub could do better the skill cap was so high that only world class guilds were playing sub. Even now you have to have BIS Leggos from what I hear. How does sub perform without BIS leggos? Still better than Sin?
Wotlk had assass and combat roughly tied at the end.

Sub is still on top without legendaries, by about 115k over assass and 125k over combat.
http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

As far as ease of acquiring decent legendaries, I'd have to give the prize to sub as well. According to sims after shoulders/gloves, sub has the 3rd place legendary 30k behind, with bracers/boots/belt/cloak/insignia/vigor ring all following in the next 35k dps down.
08/27/2017 12:33 PMPosted by Ohgodspïders
Wotlk had assass and combat roughly tied at the end.

Sub is still on top without legendaries, by about 115k over assass and 125k over combat.
http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

As far as ease of acquiring decent legendaries, I'd have to give the prize to sub as well. According to sims after shoulders/gloves, sub has the 3rd place legendary 30k behind, with bracers/boots/belt/cloak/insignia/vigor ring all following in the next 35k dps down.


Ya back then we did have a world top 50 combat rogue in our guild. So i guess that makes a difference, I wasnt thinking about that. That was the last xpac he really played though. He faded out by the end of cata, and moved on.
The problem with outlaw is that it uses all stats very well compare to other classes like sin/sub stack much of mastery as possible to direct buff their damage whereabouts outlaw, we basically get our damage buffed by vers since our mastery is pretty terrible and stats weight also take consideration of your legendaries as well. So outlaw isn't easy spec to min/max with.
08/27/2017 03:14 PMPosted by Diusus
The problem with outlaw is that it uses all stats very well compare to other classes like sin/sub stack much of mastery as possible to direct buff their damage whereabouts outlaw, we basically get our damage buffed by vers since our mastery is pretty terrible and stats weight also take consideration of your legendaries as well. So outlaw isn't easy spec to min/max with.


Well good thing though is easy to get starting gear cuz PvP WQ are like almost guarented vers.

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