Argus *needs* to unlock for alts

General Discussion
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09/13/2017 05:33 AMPosted by Crepe
To me, alts are about replayability. They're about experiencing content over again, about the character advancement, the gearing, etc. That's really the base of the game to me and the further ahead a character gets, the slower the character advancement becomes.

We're literally a day after the final unlock sequence for the patch. And less than 24 hours later people are complaining about alts? If you have time to play your alts already, that's great. But expecting them to all be done already?

Come on, folks. Alts aren't a free ride. They shouldn't be a free ride. They should be something we turn to when we're bored. Not have them all done the next day and looking around saying "I'm bored, where's the content?"

If you have 14 alts and are dreading getting them through the content the next day after it releases, perhaps you have too many alts.


Support.

I LOVE the fact that my max level alts have all earned their individual class mounts in their own right :). Doing the Broken Shore over and over again wasn't a problem.

Except for the Sentinax and hunting the rares. That stunk.
09/18/2017 12:45 AMPosted by Elae
Doing the Broken Shore over and over again wasn't a problem.

cuz that was "content" right? /rolleyes

I did everything on my main and I was looking forward to start on the invasions/wq's on alts just to find out I need to spend 2+ hours on others 11 characters to be able to reach the world bosses and the rest of the dailies.. I mean wq's.

"alt friendly patch".. and dont get me started on how they forgot about reducing the supplies for the shore buildings.. they seem to take forever now that the broken shore is a ghost town.
Even if they do unlock it you will miss out on lots and lots of free tokens for gear upgrades for your alts. Not sure if you remember, but you get a ton by completing the quests.
Argus put the nail in the coffin for my Alts this expac. It's too much time to keep more than one character in a decent position.

Now I log my alts for Bacon world quests and hexweave production only. They need 2 or 3 hours each to be able to do the new weekly world boss and open up new Order missions and followers ilvl up to 925.

I mean, it was nice to be able to log an alt for 10 minutes and maybe work on progression. Now when I log them, their legendaries are behind, their Argus progress is behind, their artifacts are leveld slowly (when in previous years, a good weapon drop could keep you in the game for a while). I dont even want to log them, because it is disappointing.

WoD isnt the Alt spoiler that caused this either. I played since vanilla. BC seemed more Alt friendly. It seemed possible to keep a couple raiding characters during BC and Wotlk. I didnt raid much in Cata or MoP.

It isnt even just raiding though. My Alts seem to be torn apart in Argus. They all are at least 900 ilvl, but its not fun. I dont expect to solo Sargeras on every character one minute after they are created. Alts actually dont just stagnate in Legion- I can deal with my Alts being the same if I dont use them - But they get degraded while everything else moves forward.

Maybe I'll wait until flying is unlocked, or maybe they will make the world quests and order missions account bound later. But with the RNG, AP, hours of redundant questing gating any new progression, I cant stomach even seeing my Alts on the character screen.
09/18/2017 01:28 AMPosted by Grimtoker
Argus put the nail in the coffin for my Alts this expac. It's too much time to keep more than one character in a decent position.

Now I log my alts for Bacon world quests and hexweave production only. They need 2 or 3 hours each to be able to do the new weekly world boss and open up new Order missions and followers ilvl up to 925.

I mean, it was nice to be able to log an alt for 10 minutes and maybe work on progression. Now when I log them, their legendaries are behind, their Argus progress is behind, their artifacts are leveld slowly (when in previous years, a good weapon drop could keep you in the game for a while). I dont even want to log them, because it is disappointing.

WoD isnt the Alt spoiler that caused this either. I played since vanilla. BC seemed more Alt friendly. It seemed possible to keep a couple raiding characters during BC and Wotlk. I didnt raid much in Cata or MoP.

It isnt even just raiding though. My Alts seem to be torn apart in Argus. They all are at least 900 ilvl, but its not fun. I dont expect to solo Sargeras on every character one minute after they are created. Alts actually dont just stagnate in Legion- I can deal with my Alts being the same if I dont use them - But they get degraded while everything else moves forward.

Maybe I'll wait until flying is unlocked, or maybe they will make the world quests and order missions account bound later. But with the RNG, AP, hours of redundant questing gating any new progression, I cant stomach even seeing my Alts on the character screen.


Your progression on your posting toon shows that you are just barely attempting H ToS. Are your other toons further progressed? Is there something you want to do on your alts that you can't currently do on your alts?
09/13/2017 06:17 AMPosted by Ashaszun
I can't tell if this is serious or people are just trolling for laughs. Tomorrows thread is going to be: "Alts should be mailed 4 pc tier set because my main has it"

It's an MMO, it's already had a lot of QOL changes over the years. The Argus quest line takes 6 hours? Maybe not even that long. You can do that on a weekend, on a day off, or spread out over a week.


And I can't believe anyone is actually trying to defend Blizzard on this one. If you think people actually should have to do 10 hours of class campaigns that aren't fun and 4 hours of unlocking argus per alt you live on another planet. Remove these things to do and I will actually be able to play my alts way, way more and I know that is true for almost everyone else. You can still repeat Argus intro quests on all your alts I guarantee no on will stop you if you think that is meaningful gameplay and important to do on your alts. 99% of people won't do that though because it is the most boring RP content in the entire game.

Why was Timeless Isle so successful? There wasn't a ridiculous amount of quests to unlock it. You went there, did like 3 quests and then you were just allowed to play the game. Another thing that doesn't really need to be said because it is common sense but people aren't going to ask for raid sets for the alts because they have it on their mains. That would be really stupid and has never happened before despite not having to redo all attunements and quests in previous zones. If you actually think this is a realistic thing to happen go quote some posts from after world quests were unlocked account wide at 110 where people then say they should have raid gear mailed to their alts. Good luck!
09/17/2017 05:21 PMPosted by Arcelia
"It was worse before and so it can't be bad now and needs a quality of life change, too".

This is what you sound like. If everything people complain was worse before so that means we can't complain about it, nothing bad would ever get fixed and this game would be terrible.


If that's what I sound like, it's only because you failed to understand the point entirely. The person claimed this was literally the worst expansion for alts. It's not. It's nowhere close to being that. Just because people are upset doesn't mean they should just make up whatever sounds good and try to pass it off as truth, so a history lesson was in order.

09/17/2017 05:32 PMPosted by Maizou
Check my armory. I have FOUR Vampiric Batlings.

That means not only did I have to get 4 characters to max level in BC, but I also had to have them geared enough to do Karazhan AND the attunements.

But you know, what do I know about alts in BC, right?

This NEEDS to be fixed. It's not a question.


Which has nothing to do with the post you quoted. That post was not about whether or not it needs to be changed. It was disputing a factually incorrect claim. Your reply is therefore irrelevant and a waste of everyone's time.
09/12/2017 09:47 PMPosted by Dagher
Just go dps spec.


09/12/2017 09:52 PMPosted by Soulofursoc
09/12/2017 09:10 PMPosted by Nixxea
...
Not even close. People are complaining about two hours of questing per character.

Do you know what BC was like for alts?

After you finished seven to ten days /played leveling the alt to 70, you got to spend probably two weeks or so gearing your character up for just Karazhan. Once you got into Karazhan, well actually that's where our story ends because unless you were on a good realm, pugs weren't really a thing for much of anything past that and even casual guilds raided 20 hours a week, so you weren't running with two guilds. I guess maybe you could do ZA, since that wasn't tied to much of anything, but generally you went with your main to farm bears for people or to sell runs.

Then in Wrath, after you spend idk, probably 6 to 7 days /played getting to 80, you got to spend, depending on what part of the expansion it was, probably a week or two getting raid ready. You could pug normals, but if you wanted to do heroic, well I hope you're on a really good realm and you're probably going to need several weeks to get there.

Compare this to Legion: You spend 2-3 days /played getting to 110, at which point you mail yourself a few unsullied tokens, and head on off to Argus, where you'll be handed 890+ gear and you're probably geared for mythic raiding in a week or so, which you could possibly do, since there are 2 and 3 day mythic guilds.

Blizzard has made a ton of changes to increase the alt-friendliness of Legion. The only way it's really "alt-unfriendly" is if you compare it to WoD, which just had absolutely nothing to do outside of raid, which left people with all the time in the world to play more characters to a higher level than they ever normally would otherwise.

This is historical irrelevancy. Legion and Argus means having to go through that entire quest chain, um, 14 times? After they told us we would not have to do that.

Having to do the same long quest chain a dozen times just to open up routine content does not translate as "alt-friendly".


Wait, I thought everyone thinks Legion is alt-unfriendly ,how do you have 14 characters ready for Argus. I'm confuzzled.
09/18/2017 06:29 AMPosted by Normercy
Wait, I thought everyone thinks Legion is alt-unfriendly ,how do you have 14 characters ready for Argus. I'm confuzzled.

[/quote]

Because they can't figure out the difference between being alt unfriendly and being "I have six characters I play as mains" unfriendly.
09/12/2017 09:45 PMPosted by Pumkinhead
So a toon that hasnt stepped foot on argus should have access to everything? what logic does that make?

I understand the WQs on BS being unlocked but if you havent opened the world why should it be available?


With Artifact Knowledge, it made some sense in an alt gaining info about their Artifact. The same goes for the new BoA Flight Paths item.

Doesn't really make much sense for my alts to know all the beacon teleports on Argus (or even know what they are) while, as you said, not having stepped foot on it. The same goes for the Netherlight Crucible but it would seem as though components alts gather is just extra wood for an already lit bonfire.

09/18/2017 01:07 AMPosted by Victor
Even if they do unlock it you will miss out on lots and lots of free tokens for gear upgrades for your alts. Not sure if you remember, but you get a ton by completing the quests.


This is a non-issue and the solution has already been done in the past.

The questline into Legion offers players gear and such with the ability to play through the entirety of the questline, or a skip feature to go straight into Artifact Acquisitions and the likes while still giving the player the option to go back and do the questline when they so choose to.

If given the option, the player could skip the Argus questline entirely and reap the rewards later, or do it "now" and reap the rewards immediately.

Only other "issue" AFAIK would be AP and how AK has worked, but a newly leveled alt could hit the same AP as a main and still have the Balance of Power + Suramar AP left to gain (and atm the Gul'dan kill quest gives ~800mill) so that "issue" is non-existent otherwise that would've been handled.

I've already done up to the dungeon on 4 characters (impatient with the queue times), and planned to do more eventually, but I believe that there should be options; they never hurt.
09/12/2017 10:01 PMPosted by Pumkinhead
People will soon want a level 1 to have everything their 110 has.


Why not? Who cares..
09/12/2017 09:09 PMPosted by Avabelle
09/12/2017 09:00 PMPosted by Brialam
You realize that some of the unlock quests (that you say you refuse to do) are reused as the world quests (that you say you want to do)?

I hear you that it would be more efficient to just get a free world boss roll every week while having to do nothing else, but the deal's just not that good.


I like to pick and choose. Ones I like are the solo boss world quests. Why? I easily get a group with LFG and just heal. I typically avoid the ones of "Kill X mobs" or "Collect X items"

I just do solo boss ones only, and wanted them open on alts for easy AP

So you want easy AP and gear without having any requirements fulfilled before?... Yeah why not just complete all quests and unlock all artifact appearances for everyone's alts. That'll save alot of time right? Also let's just make bosses die to an auto attack so I can get gear faster.
09/17/2017 04:26 PMPosted by Maizou
09/17/2017 03:45 PMPosted by Darktalon
What's up with people thinking that just because you do it on one character you deserve to get it on every character on your account? Just because there is some account-wide stuff doesn't mean everything has to be account-wide now. There is different professions associated with the new area. Just because you get your Alchemist to do the quests now all your profession should be given the recipes too? I think people are just lazy and they can't handle dealing with their alts. If you don't want to do things on your alts then don't level them. If you expect everything to be handed to your alts after you do something on your main then just uninstall this game is not for you.


Or maybe, just maybe, we want what they told us would be the case.

Maybe, just maybe, we don't want to do hours of questing JUST to unlock glorified daily quests.

Maybe, just maybe, you telling us that the way we play is wrong is your OPINION, not fact, and Blizzard endorses playing alts, as seen by the get 5 characters to max level achievement and complete all 12 class hall stories.

But you know, keep thinking what you think.

There is the classic triggered "don't tell me how I play is wrong!!!" Excuse as lazy players tell blizzard their design of the game is wrong and should accommodate their passion for alts.
09/18/2017 09:28 AMPosted by Lolpwned
09/12/2017 10:01 PMPosted by Pumkinhead
People will soon want a level 1 to have everything their 110 has.


Why not? Who cares..


Heirlooms are sort of along the road there.

Many of the aspects of Legion that were taken from Diablo arent popular. But I would like it if I could give my Warlock my Mages cloth and my Druids trinkets when I Main-swapped before ToS. I would love it if they moved more to "account bound" everything (but keeping level requirements on items, ofcourse). Even a shared account bank for all your characters items.

I see no harm in that, but I just mention it because it was brought up. I'd never make a thread about it or argue too much for it.

That would be a near total revamp of the system, and would have significant controversy. The OP is talking about something they have done before, said they were going to do, and didnt do. Without any word as to why or if it is only delayed. In an expac that is widely viewed as difficult to maintain an Alt.
09/12/2017 08:36 PMPosted by Avabelle
I'm disappointed. This is an alt, I didn't touch Argus or even aboard the vindicaar until today with her because I wanted to finish everything on my main first.

So I take her there, and yes I can use the Netherlight Crucible - so that's cool

BUT I cannot do
-Greater Invasions
-World Quests *at all*

I mean, this really means far, far less play time from me.

The quest chain through Argus was incredibly boring, on top of the fact I like healers & only have 1 spec(healer).

I refuse to do ANY QUESTS on alts..... I would of done some World Quests/Greater Invasions, but I REFUSE to unlock the zones on alts.

I have 9 @ 110 with 3 more classes on the way, this is garbage.


It took me an hour to unlock everything and I wasn't even paying attention.
To those that compare Legion with past expansions...
Please consider the differences:
1) How heavily packed mobs are and were
2) How many options of activities we have and had
3) How many varieties of race/class combinations we have and had
4) How steep gear ilevel escalation is and was
5) How many things we have to do and had to do to feel our alts viable
6) How much efforts we have to and had to put into our weapons
etc. etc. ...

The impression of "alt-unfriendliness" is a combination of all these aspects, not just a matter of accessibility.
09/18/2017 01:07 AMPosted by Victor
Even if they do unlock it you will miss out on lots and lots of free tokens for gear upgrades for your alts. Not sure if you remember, but you get a ton by completing the quests.


Shouldn't that be our choice? I don't care if I miss out on some rewards, to earn the rewards would bore me to death. At least I could then get rewards from the World Quests I choose to do.

Instead, I will get 0 rewards and not bother to spend time in the game. Why? Game should be FUN. It's a game that I bought, and that costs a monthly sub. Should be "fun" and "entertaining" right? Well, repeating the boring Argus intro is the most boring 2 hours I could spend. My main did it once, alts just.... wont. Like I said, I rather logout/not play WoW then pay money to play a "game" that bores me to death
09/12/2017 08:41 PMPosted by Aranah
I've said it before and I"ll say it again: Legion is the most "alt-unfriendly" expansion ever.


Apparently your only definition of "alt-friendly" is "we get advanced content FOR FREE on alts".

To me that's absurd. WHY should alts get ANYTHING on Argus given to them for free?
There are games that encourage 'alt character' play by giving minor buffs to your main accounts and by making all of them fluid/ accessible, and easily bench able.

What legion succeeded in by making the leveling process fluid (you can run dungeons/ pet battle e.t.c) they messed up by QUEST GATING.

There is zero synergy/ boost for wanting to master multiple specs or some form of 'first time clears make it smoother' for artifact levels.

Legion is still alt-unfriendly, not through how hard it is to level up or get AP tokens, but by the fact that alts are PIGEONHOLED INTO REPETITIVE QUESTING.

Doing the same long boring quest line is not fun. Remember, we used to NOT have the third slot unlocked + had to grind AK so it took them all the way till 7.3 to learn that unlocks on 110 for people with a main is SO much better.

Games should not have to involve deterrents like annoyingly long repeated quest chains.
I have to side with the "it should be unlocked" camp.

going through that questline on every alt listening to 48 years of RP is obnoxious.

I did it once. I don't need to listen to Velen prattle on 10 more times.

09/18/2017 10:59 AMPosted by Tchalla


To me that's absurd. WHY should alts get ANYTHING on Argus given to them for free?


because it's not the alt sitting behind the computer, it's the player. and while it may be new to the alt, *I* do not need to sit through the RP storyline quest slog time after time.

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