Horde burning Teldrassil is blasphemy.

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11/03/2017 10:42 PMPosted by Springrunner
11/03/2017 10:16 PMPosted by Anná
It happens before. On Jaina's trailer she mentions "flames that fuel hatred" and show Teldrassil burning and AFTER that the alliance marching on the EK.

That doesn't imply chronological order.
Actually it does very much imply that. But doesn't necessarily mean it's true. They implied. We presume. That's how it works. And why we're discussing how illogical this story is.
11/03/2017 10:51 PMPosted by Thallia
Actually it does very much imply that. But doesn't necessarily mean it's true. They implied. We presume. That's how it works. And why we're discussing how illogical this story is.

I think the more illogical part is why the night elves maintain this status quo of being allied with the humans and enemies of the horde when it has repeatedly caused them to take the brunt of the casualties whenever some human declares war on the horde. Because let's be clear, the war during cataclysm was declared by Varian, and this one clearly stated when Genn attacked the forsaken.

If I was the night elves I would begin thinking of a new arrangement. Not sure exactly what, but not what they've been doing because it's been really,really bad for night elves.
11/03/2017 10:26 PMPosted by Tecar
I just dont know HOW the horde would burn the whole thing down. Unless I am mistaken it is highly magical, stronger than most metals, and has an army of magical defenders living inside it. It also has close allies in the draenei and the potential support of the entire alliance navy.

Even if the horde gathered all its fire mages, catapults, and goblin explosives how does it manage to do it? I dont think even a bomb like the one from thousand needles would be able to take it out even if it got past the defenders.

Only method I can see working is some kind of plot super weapon, and that would suck.


There's another thread discussing the possible Old God meddling that could happen throughout the expansion.

One person stated that maybe the burning of Teldrassil will be an inside job of some sort.

Maybe the Horde attacks as retaliation for the Alliance attacking Lordaeron, but the killing blow is dealt by some insider (presumably some night elf or group corrupted by N'Zoth). And the Horde gets blamed for the entire incident.

N'zoth gets what he wants--create discord and drive a wedge between the factions when they need to work together most.

Would be intriguing, at the very least.
11/03/2017 10:42 PMPosted by Springrunner
That doesn't imply chronological order.


Yes it does, it's a tool for storytelling.

11/03/2017 10:40 PMPosted by Frostscythe
And what if the reason we burnt down your tree was because you attacked and wiped out one of our kingdoms?


You realize Forsaken attacked Gilneas first, right? like there's no point here were the Horde is the victim.

11/03/2017 10:55 PMPosted by Springrunner
I think the more illogical part is why the night elves maintain this status quo of being allied with the humans and enemies of the horde when it has repeatedly caused them to take the brunt of the casualties whenever some human declares war on the horde. Because let's be clear, the war during cataclysm was declared by Varian, and this one clearly stated when Genn attacked the forsaken.

If I was the night elves I would begin thinking of a new arrangement. Not sure exactly what, but not what they've been doing because it's been really,really bad for night elves.


Orcs have been attacking the Night elves since before WoW started with or without war with the Alliance. Don't be naive on purpose.
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And what if the reason we burnt down your tree was because you attacked and wiped out one of our kingdoms?
Because I'm pretty sure they already stated that our raid on Lordaeron was in answer to the tree. But I could be wrong and might have inferred from what I saw.

Not to mention, logic dictates they'd go after a city they could siege the same way. Because that's the honorable retaliation. Not burning down the Druid's tree. A tree that many Tauren helped heal. That's still illogical.


War is never honorable though. Just look at Pearl Harbor vs the bombing of Japan.

In Pearl Harbor, there were roughly 2500 casualties, most of them military.

Bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Over TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND people, most of them civilians (men, women, children).

Two entire cities nuked in response to a harbor being bombed.

Think about that.

Morals and honor in war is a bunch of bull. Even in video games, if they actually follow the way war really works.
11/03/2017 11:11 PMPosted by Anná
Orcs have been attacking the Night elves since before WoW started with or without war with the Alliance. Don't be naive on purpose.

You know that 1) the first time it was Grom, who was a problem for Thrall. 2) The second time, it was orcs and humans vs night elves. And 3) every consecutive time it has been because night elves are alliance.

When the factions were at peace they were perfectly fine trading. There's no intrinsic reason why they should be enemies.

Yes it does, it's a tool for storytelling.

No it doesn't. They very well could have done it because Kalimdor is on the left which for westerners who write from left to right seems like forward.
11/03/2017 11:17 PMPosted by Cherlirra
...Because I'm pretty sure they already stated that our raid on Lordaeron was in answer to the tree. But I could be wrong and might have inferred from what I saw.

Not to mention, logic dictates they'd go after a city they could siege the same way. Because that's the honorable retaliation. Not burning down the Druid's tree. A tree that many Tauren helped heal. That's still illogical.


War is never honorable though. Just look at Pearl Harbor vs the bombing of Japan.

In Pearl Harbor, there were roughly 2500 casualties, most of them military.

Bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Over 200,000 THOUSAND people, most of them civilians (men, women, children).

Two entire cities nuked in response to a harbor being bombed.

Think about that.

Morals and honor in war is a bunch of bull. Even wars in video games, if they actually follow the way war really works.
This isn't real life. It doesn't apply here. What DOES apply is the lore behind the Horde, their ideals and what we can infer from how they feel about things as individual races and as a faction overall. Don't bring real life into the fantasy lore that we're discussing.
11/03/2017 10:09 PMPosted by Yagarr
How can the surviving Horde lament Theramore as an act of cowardice and cruelty by a traitorous warmonger yet allow Sylvanas to burn an entire World Tree and its remaining inhabitants to ash?

How can we claim to be a shamanistic faction and hurt the natural world in such a manner? How can we claim to be an honorable society that prefers to fight their opponents armed with an axe and slaughter an uncountable number of civilians, children, and animals?

How can Saurfang tell Garrosh he'd kill him for repeating the actions of the Old Horde and how can Baine tell Garrosh he would never allow him to commit another action like Theramore, but still stand by Sylvanas while she destroys a city and one of the most beautiful natural wonders of the world? Thrall's Horde sought to save Azeroth, not destroy it.

The Horde has lost its way since Cataclysm. We are routinely made to be the hapless lackeys of evil generals foreign to our own values, culture, and identity. This needs to stop. Brack, you say you want us to feel more faction pride than ever but this isn't the faction I fell in love with in Warcraft Three.


When Garrosh fell and at Blizzcon 2013 there was a lot of talk about Sylvanas and her corpse-raising then and I remember Chris Metzen or one of those guys saying we would eventually deal with Sylvanas. So I wonder if this is going to be that xpac where Sylvanas not only pays for whatever she has the Horde do here, but the corpse-raising, making plague, etc. I wonder if we end up with another coup within the Horde or what.

But they got rid of all the more moderate/reasonable leaders within the Horde, they threw Vol'jin under the bus last xpac- he was trying to WORK with the Alliance. (In "Shadows of the Horde", Taran Zhu was actually seeing him as being more like the Tuishi than Huojin as far as mentality and discipline, with his friendship of Tyrathan Khort of the Alliance especially - who appeared at Vol'jin's funeral and as an NPC at the hunter's lodge in Legion) of course they got Thrall out of the picture, haven't done squat with Baine- so all your more "moderate" Horde leaders are out of the picture. Sylvanas does not share their sentiments and she's in charge. And if this new war is anything to do whatsoever with the events at the Broken Shore in the last xpac that's really stupid. But yeah they basically threw all the previous lore of trying to work with the Alliance to the curb now it seems - so we saved the world from the Legion for what exactly?!

And Anduin is completely out of character. He is a kid that paints rainbows and pets unicorns. He's NOT a bad-@$$, sorry. Since when does he "grow a set"? seriously. This would have made more sense if something happened to him in Legion or somehow Genn Greymane supplanted or took over his authority and led the Alliance into this new war. This would be more in line with his and Jaina's character since they hate the Horde so much.

11/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Xojados
Orc eat rock. Orc follow dead lady orders.


This actually made me laugh. lol!

Honor? What honor? can you eat it? lol!
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War is never honorable though. Just look at Pearl Harbor vs the bombing of Japan.

In Pearl Harbor, there were roughly 2500 casualties, most of them military.

Bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Over 200,000 THOUSAND people, most of them civilians (men, women, children).

Two entire cities nuked in response to a harbor being bombed.

Think about that.

Morals and honor in war is a bunch of bull. Even wars in video games, if they actually follow the way war really works.
This isn't real life. It doesn't apply here. What DOES apply is the lore behind the Horde, their ideals and what we can infer from how they feel about things as individual races and as a faction overall. Don't bring real life into the fantasy lore that we're discussing.


Oh yeah. Because the Horde has totally upheld their ideals and honorable values over the years, right?

They've let themselves be led by one bad leader right after the other. Like SHEEP. Even after they were released from the blood curse!

They went along with the destruction of Theramore. They'll go along with the burning of Teldrassil too. Because that's what they do.
Yeah as a main Night Elf druid this upsets me that they are destroying one of my favorite places in wow.
11/03/2017 11:27 PMPosted by Cherlirra
...This isn't real life. It doesn't apply here. What DOES apply is the lore behind the Horde, their ideals and what we can infer from how they feel about things as individual races and as a faction overall. Don't bring real life into the fantasy lore that we're discussing.


Oh yeah. Because the Horde has totally upheld their ideals and honorable values over the years, right?

They've let themselves be led by one bad leader right after the other. Like SHEEP. Even after they were released from the blood curse!

They went along with the destruction of Theramore. They'll go along with the burning of Teldrassil too. Because that's what they do.


Frankly I don't care what anyone thinks when they use a freshly rolled toon they can easily delete after commenting.
This isn't something Tauren would ever agree to do.
!@#$ the tree hippies, we have crack elves now
It is what it is!! There is no making up after the burning of the world tree!! This is beyond the blood lust murder of drenai babies!! This seem calculated!! And will have to be answered with the same cruelty!!
11/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Springrunner
Do you even know how it happens yet? For all we know it would happen -after- the alliance attacks UC.


Novel says Sylvanas drew first blood.
11/03/2017 10:14 PMPosted by Larannas
it’s a complete destruction in such a way that anyone left at the top of the tree would be trapped, forced to burn alive.


Good thing they let those mages back into Darnassus.

11/03/2017 11:40 PMPosted by Nighttempo
11/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Springrunner
Do you even know how it happens yet? For all we know it would happen -after- the alliance attacks UC.


Novel says Sylvanas drew first blood.


And nobody was shocked or surprised.
11/03/2017 10:12 PMPosted by Springrunner
Do you even know how it happens yet? For all we know it would happen -after- the alliance attacks UC.

11/03/2017 10:09 PMPosted by Yagarr
a city and one of the most beautiful natural wonders of the world?

Err... about that... "natural" is a bit of a stretch... Druids largely consider it an abomination created by Staghelm for selfish reasons.


Actually it has been said the attack on UC is a direct retaliation of the destruction of Teldrassil.
The Horde haven't been honorable for some time so this behavior is expected. I don't know how any Orc player doesn't have a huge moral quandary over the Siege of Orgrimmar and the subsequent alt Draenor where they literally slaughter their ancestors in the Iron Horde.

And Anduin is completely out of character. He is a kid that paints rainbows and pets unicorns. He's NOT a bad-@$$, sorry. Since when does he "grow a set"? seriously. This would have made more sense if something happened to him in Legion or somehow Genn Greymane supplanted or took over his authority and led the Alliance into this new war. This would be more in line with his and Jaina's character since they hate the Horde so much.


The Alliance actually got a little "coming of age" quest for Anduin on the broken shore showing him sort of coming into the role of king.
11/03/2017 11:40 PMPosted by Teria
11/03/2017 10:14 PMPosted by Larannas
it’s a complete destruction in such a way that anyone left at the top of the tree would be trapped, forced to burn alive.


Good thing they let those mages back into Darnassus.

11/03/2017 11:40 PMPosted by Nighttempo
...

Novel says Sylvanas drew first blood.


And nobody was shocked or surprised.


No surprise there. Garrosh couldn't even keep her in line about the corpse-raising issue (despite what you think of him- he ended up being a monster himself though). Like I said, unless Baine takes the mantle at this point to try to stop Sylvanas as a more moderate leader not much can be done.

11/03/2017 11:37 PMPosted by Rooikat
!@#$ the tree hippies, we have crack elves now


I quit doing that quest line. I don't support an IRL drug habit so why would I do it in a game? That was incredibly poor taste. So we probably have to feed them crack crystals all through out BFA too. That's one race I won't use.

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