SotT is a terrible, terrible instance

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I came because I heard Jerry was here.
Oculus still reigns supreme as the worst dungeon ever, I made a point of never done it again after the first time, on any caracter, on any realm, on any account.

SotT is just boring, and suffers from the usual overabundance of spell effects and confusing visuals.
Might do it again on alts.
09/17/2017 07:21 PMPosted by Khamone
Oculus still reigns supreme as the worst dungeon ever, I made a point of never done it again after the first time, on any caracter, on any realm, on any account.

SotT is just boring, and suffers from the usual overabundance of spell effects and confusing visuals.
Might do it again on alts.


Occulus was bad, don't get me wrong...but it is no where near as bad (imo) as Black Morass, Violet Hold, and Violet Hold Episode 2.
I dont like it. But I dont really like any of the outdoor dungeons that reuse areas we already quested thru. feels more like a scenario than a dungeon. to me, a dungeon is a place like black rook hold. shadowfang keep. karazhan. a big manor or castle we have to fight our way thru to the top/bottom. the bosses died before any real mechanics could happen. seems a little late in the expansion to be doing a dungeon tuned for people in 845 gear or w/e heroics are now.

i did it once for the quest. i doubt ill go back unless its easy keystone week.
09/17/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Indromath
It was pretty lazy feeling to be honest.

It wasnt really even a dungeon, more of a small one objective scenario.


Same imo, felt like one of those Mists scenarios except with 10x more trash packs.
I did like the Void theme though :/
09/17/2017 04:03 PMPosted by Speckoh
In terms of balancing, I would say... reduce the mobs. At the moment, it's hard to avoid pulling multiple packs because of the 2nd boss requiring that you close RNG portals. They also spawn clumps of circle crap that spawns more mobs and that when you avoid them will cause other mobs to aggro. Mobs on top on mobs mobs.... too much damage to heal... I ended up with 850k+ healing by the end of the instance overall on a +8 and felt that damage taken is ridiculous. And no, my group was pro. ; ) I blame the mobs that were harder than bosses.

Pretty sure the three portals spawn at the exact same place every time (no RNG involved). For some reason the WQ portals you have to close also appear in M+ (but you can ignore them as you don't need them). Found it generally easy. Nothing like how overtuned Cathedral was. Will experiment more with higher keys.
09/16/2017 07:45 PMPosted by Meemuu
I thought it was pretty good. At least up to the same quality of the other dungeons this expansion.

Yep I agree. It's very hard for WOW to do something "new" with dungeons at this point. In the past 12 years they've done just about everything that's possible with the WOW engine. I think it's reasonably fun, it's a change from the same dungeons we've been doing after all. Legion has had a great variety of dungeons, it's the best since WOTLK.
It felt rushed. Sure, the game has been out for some time and it would be a little difficult to create something completely new, but this new one didn't feel "legion" like.
09/17/2017 05:24 PMPosted by Nixxea
09/17/2017 02:09 PMPosted by Mikdra
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

It was possible back in Wrath to reach level cap without knowing your class or your role. I didn't become a prot warrior because I wanted to be a tank. I just liked shields, and if you are going to use a shield as a warrior, that pretty much means that you are going prot. Almost anything in the game that I had experienced could be outleveled or outgeared. Most everything else could be done via someone else carrying me. To this day, I am convinced that the reason that I got through HoR normal that first time (and in fact the only time during Wrath)was because the frost dk in our group did most of the actual tanking.

While I was a terrible player back then, I was hardly alone. Throw 3 or 4 of us in a random HoR, and we fail.


It means exactly what I think it means. You're just being super literal about it.

Yeah, sure, HoR could go badly if you deliberately went out of your way to scrape the bottom of the barrel for the worst players possible. LFD doesn't do that though. The dungeon was easy and if you struggled in it, you should definitely feel bad. That people actually make it out to be anything else serves as a testament to how low the standards in Wrath were.


If HoR came out now, I would probably be fine with it. I certainly didn't have trouble with the heroic version of Seat. But, while still not being particularly good, I am a far better player now than I was during Wrath.

I already admitted that I was a terrible player at the time and at the time I felt bad for dragging my groups down; what else did you want me to say? That you are arrogant, and apparently cannot conceive how anything you find easy others might find hard; who apparently cannot conceive that you were significantly more accomplished than the average WoW player during Wrath; that you facerolled a new dungeon with your mates and cannot conceive that other folks lacked the drive, gear, talent, friends and experience that you did?

The fact that you talk about `standards' demonstrates this. BC had plenty of bad players; it's just that most of them didn't make it to level cap, and those that did struggled to get into dungeon groups at level cap.

We obviously don't have useful numbers anymore, but we know anecdotally that people dropped HoR as soon as it popped; that wiping on the opening trash meant that you either left the dungeon or started over; and that the normal version of HoR was considered harder than some of the launch heroics. (Granted, the launch heroics were considered rather easy.) So yes, it is absolutely conceivable that people struggled with HoR because that's what actually happened. Sorry we didn't meet your standards.
I have loved running dungeons since I started in BC but I don't think I've liked any since MoP. I didn't like any of the WoD ones, I've stopped doing Legion dungeons unless I have to because I don't like them. SotT is just, I dunno, didn't enjoy it.
I'll be honest here. I had no bloody idea what instance you were talking about. Sounds awful.

I should... yea, I should go check that out sometime ... at some point... after the next invasion point. Oh my queue popped. Hey look a flower. Bye. >.>
09/17/2017 01:01 AMPosted by Tuckletuts
09/17/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hardur
Halls of Reflection was the best dungeon Blizz has ever done
Sure, if you enjoy hiding in a corner for 20 minutes.

09/17/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hardur
I guess some like challenge and some don't.

Once that first part was over, the rest was a bit of a joke. I didn't dislike it because it was difficult though(in fact ZG/ZA and PoS are still among my favourites), I disliked it because it was bland, boring, used bad mechanics (add waves) and was unforgiving for pugs because if the tank/healer died you had to start those trash waves again. It was also the dungeon where it was guaranteed that 2-3 people would leave immediately, making your queue times pretty miserable.

I remember some good times in the final stretch, before we outgeared it. Close finishes where we barely got the last add down to drop a wall just as the LK was on top of us. Good times. :D

As for people dropping... Yeah, as soon as you saw the loading screen, the next thing you looked for was how many stayed in group. 3/5 was about average. :D But looking back on it, that just adds to the mystique. There's never been another dungeon quite like it. :)
09/17/2017 01:01 AMPosted by Tuckletuts
09/17/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hardur
Halls of Reflection was the best dungeon Blizz has ever done
Sure, if you enjoy hiding in a corner for 20 minutes.

09/17/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hardur
I guess some like challenge and some don't.

Once that first part was over, the rest was a bit of a joke. I didn't dislike it because it was difficult though(in fact ZG/ZA and PoS are still among my favourites), I disliked it because it was bland, boring, used bad mechanics (add waves) and was unforgiving for pugs because if the tank/healer died you had to start those trash waves again. It was also the dungeon where it was guaranteed that 2-3 people would leave immediately, making your queue times pretty miserable.

I remember some good times in the final stretch, before we outgeared it. Close finishes where we barely got the last add down to drop a wall just as the LK was on top of us. Good times. :D

As for people dropping... Yeah, as soon as you saw the loading screen, the next thing you looked for was how many stayed in group. 3/5 was about average. :D But looking back on it, that just adds to the mystique. There's never been another dungeon quite like it. :)

09/17/2017 06:11 AMPosted by Nixxea
09/16/2017 11:34 PMPosted by Averyx
I disagree, both CoS and Arcway are pretty cool and interesting and I'd say even Vault is really good.


Yes, but that's because most people don't like actual dungeons and just like want 15 minute content blitzes.

09/17/2017 12:06 AMPosted by Hardur
Halls of Reflection was the best dungeon Blizz has ever done, with the possible exception of Return to Karazhan. I guess some like challenge and some don't.


HoR was a joke. We roflstomped it on release day while I tanked in the middle of the room because we didn't know about the nook. That anyone actually struggled with that dungeon is pretty much inconceivable.

Maybe not everyone had your mad skills. Or are you talking about N? If most agreed with you that H was face roll, there wouldn't have been so many dropping group during the loading screen.
So I just did this on +10.

Melee is definitely gimped in this dungeon.

Everything you need to hit is either basically jumping everywhere, and/or there is a ton of gunk all over the floors and it's near impossible to maneuver at higher m+ levels.

Ran a triple ranged team, our interrupt rotation had to be spot on w/ 24s & 45s cd interrupts + tank's short interrupt.

The adds are a pain with volcanic to a minor extent (slows/ vacuums), but realistically it'd be much much worse w/ bolstering/ necrotic.

Boss fights aren't as bad as pre-nerf Cathedral (L'ura has a soft enrage that you can deal with gear scaling). 2nd last boss has a hard DPS check in higher key +s however.

As a balance druid, these fights were already messy to properly deal with, defos skip this if you are a tight stacking melee class with no passive regeneration.

+10 was pretty fun and challenging to an extent, in some ways it's much more fun than 1. NL's worm boss 2. Uber Tyrannical Helya.

It does however give really crappy loot, and has potentially worse trash than lower Kara.

To be fair, the % meter fills up really quickly (probs 50-100% overkill from 'unavoidable trash').

So this could either be a stealth comp meta/ potion meta or something of the kind.. or a generic trash nerf.

+10 was sorta more fun than +0, difficulty sits between heroic and mythic raiding level.

At this current moment in time, considering that it gives 915-esque loot.

HYPER TIP: Bring B-Rezzes & ranged & 700-1m HPS tank + healer
09/17/2017 04:55 PMPosted by Rastlin
09/16/2017 07:44 PMPosted by Dagher
Oculus at least tried to innovate. I do feel like visually and thematically SotT is very weak.


Oculus was the WORST INSTANCE EVER.

I HATED that instance and I still get mad thinking about it.

But as to the OP

Yes this new instance STINKS.


Aww he gets mad thinking about it. Tell me, boy. Was the the ONLY dungeon you got in wrath?

was it a 100% pick if you where in a group?
did it follow you through normal and heroic?
did it sit there, happily watching you leave group after group of easy 5 minute ques, then punish you with a 40 minute wait just to see THE SAME BLOODY DUNGEON?

No? then get on my level of occ hate.
I thought it was cool. A little overkill on the trash maybe, but not a bad experience.

Try it with the inky-black potion...super trippy :)
09/16/2017 07:41 PMPosted by Trousseau
  • Boring bosses.
  • Tons of unskippable RP.
  • Ridiculous amounts of trash.
  • An infuriating daily that requires more trash cleaning when it's active.
  • Enormous.
  • Uncompelling plot.
  • Honestly? I think this is the worst instance since Oculus. No, I am not exaggerating - this is simply a poor effort, especially coming on the heels of both Karazhans (which felt very strong).


    Have to agree on the bosses. Worse than boring, they are super bland I've done it on several characters and the worst offender is the guy with the traps and the pets. Every group I've been in has run past him only noticing he's a boss after. And even I, who has done it multiple times, only belatedly recall 'Oh right, that guy xXSeprothXx or whatever.

    Not sure about the RP. You have to wait for her to cut a hole in a wall, other than that it's just background chatter. The story wasn't... horrible. I was pretty upset that she ate the shadow demigod and the fallen naaru. I mean, we hunted/killed them together, that elf needs to learn to share dammit. (In all fairness, I do watch the cutscene every time, just because of... Alleria's expression is hilarious)

    Trash is horrible. 'How do we keep them from noticing how empty this is and the fact that they've already done it?' simple, spawn stuff under them so the slowest person to mount is always trailing half the dungeon to the tank. Bad form blizz.

    Though my biggest fear is that this is a baby version of what we can expect from the raid D=
    I agree with everything except "enormous". It's actually really small and short.

    It's basically just a courtyard with a bunch of overly obnoxious trash. Definitely not Blizzard's most inspired work.

    Will probably avoid this place like the plague on mythic+, just like cathedral and kara.
    Yeah I miss the days when a new dungeon brought excitement and drama to the game.
    At least Cathedral was a whole new location. Seat is just a reused questing area. It should have taken place inside that huge structure.

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