Doing anything for Ret????

7.3 PTR Feedback
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I can't say I agree with you here. Movement is quite punishing for Ret outside of Steed. Divine Steed off GCD would be amazing right now.


True, Divine Steed coming off GCD would be nice change. However, having the option to switch to Cavalier I feel fills that need for me when I do want the additional mobility. Cavalier plus our Blessings fills any need of mobility I've encountered this tier.

10/11/2017 01:12 PMPosted by Lodisa
With the T20 4p going away some buffs would be nice. The 4p even feels like it's made to be baseline since it makes the spec feel much more fluid. Spending that one extra GCD is annoying when you need aoe. I would like to see T21 changed though.


I agree here as well. I've become very used to the T20 four-piece and it feels very baseline to me at this point. It's going to take some getting used to for me moving away from it if that isn't changed to a baseline.
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Of course I wouldn't object to buffs(who wouldn't) but I don't feel like we need them at the moment. This could change with our T21 set bonuses considering we'd be losing the T20 4 set that interacts so well with our talents and Crusade, however in the current state I think Ret Paladins are quite fine and pretty formidable among melee.


If anything, I think we need major changes to T21 - at it's current state it is in no way better than T20 - it's a downgrade even if the T21 piece is of a higher ilvl (up to a certain point). I rather not have it be forced on us via nerfs to T20, rather buff or redesign it to make it better.

I'm not looking forward to farming T20 for 950+ titanforged in Antorus.
10/11/2017 01:31 PMPosted by Ythisens
I can't say I agree with you here. Movement is quite punishing for Ret outside of Steed. Divine Steed off GCD would be amazing right now.


True, Divine Steed coming off GCD would be nice change. However, having the option to switch to Cavalier I feel fills that need for me when I do want the additional mobility. Cavalier plus our Blessings fills any need of mobility I've encountered this tier.

10/11/2017 01:12 PMPosted by Lodisa
With the T20 4p going away some buffs would be nice. The 4p even feels like it's made to be baseline since it makes the spec feel much more fluid. Spending that one extra GCD is annoying when you need aoe. I would like to see T21 changed though.


I agree here as well. I've become very used to the T20 four-piece and it feels very baseline to me at this point. It's going to take some getting used to for me moving away from it if that isn't changed to a baseline.

43 page hunter thread could sure use CM love even if it isn't a direct discussion in saying anything about fixing hunters soon. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20757636300?page=43#post-852
Paladins really aren't that bad off as people claim. They have some solid mobility with divine steed unlike other classes, chains of thrayn and the cloak from what I remember are still solid and beneficial. I haven't played paladin in tomb but in terms of the steed argument it could be made to be brought off the GCD but bring the only class to mount in combat and move faster than most and 2 charges i.e cavalier gives more than enough mobility if needed. Just be glad you don't have wraithwalk.

I do hope there are changes more in the talents than anything but I wouldn't expect anything until maybe antorus at the earliest. As some of the talents in get just feel weird.
2 charges i.e cavalier gives more than enough mobility if needed.
in PvE, maybe, but we're still barely more mobile than DK, assuming mobility isn't required more than 1 time every 45 seconds, because if it is, you're never gonna get that second charge of steed back anyways, which makes cav all but useless.

In PvP? Hell no it doesn't.

garbage tier mobility either way.

Just be glad you don't have wraithwalk.
WW is better than steed in PvP. It suppresses snares on it's own, doesn't require 2 GCDs to be functional, and can't be shut down entirely by a single dispel.
10/11/2017 01:38 PMPosted by Nérò
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Of course I wouldn't object to buffs(who wouldn't) but I don't feel like we need them at the moment. This could change with our T21 set bonuses considering we'd be losing the T20 4 set that interacts so well with our talents and Crusade, however in the current state I think Ret Paladins are quite fine and pretty formidable among melee.


If anything, I think we need major changes to T21 - at it's current state it is in no way better than T20 - it's a downgrade even if the T21 piece is of a higher ilvl (up to a certain point). I rather not have it be forced on us via nerfs to T20, rather buff or redesign it to make it better.

I'm not looking forward to farming T20 for 950+ titanforged in Antorus.


Going to second this. Won't be making the swap to T21 for quite some time as T20 is just way better. A T21 adjustment, a small bump to our mobility, and some of those nifty new animations and I'd be happy.
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Ret Paladins shine on movement
Could you please tell me what your smoking right now? Just the basic math of mobility CD's ALONE across every melee class (not counting DK's) make this statement a complete lie.
10/11/2017 01:50 PMPosted by Bryiah
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Ret Paladins shine on movement
Could you please tell me what your smoking right now? Just the basic math of mobility CD's ALONE across every melee class (not counting DK's) make this statement a complete lie.


You can have 2 charges of steed, which alone outside of a warrior heroic leap charge is nice. You can bubble out of almost anything to gap close rather quickly using steed and HoJ. Look at survival as an example they have harpoon disengage which isnt baseline as survival and cheetah which is an atrocious speed boost. Rets mobility is by far one of the better ones for melee in the game.
10/11/2017 01:31 PMPosted by Ythisens
our Blessings fills any need of mobility

ಠ_ಠ
<span class="truncated">...</span>Could you please tell me what your smoking right now? Just the basic math of mobility CD's ALONE across every melee class (not counting DK's) make this statement a complete lie.


You can have 2 charges of steed, which alone outside of a warrior heroic leap charge is nice. You can bubble out of almost anything to gap close rather quickly using steed and HoJ. Look at survival as an example they have harpoon disengage which isnt baseline as survival and cheetah which is an atrocious speed boost. Rets mobility is by far one of the better ones for melee in the game.
go actually play it, you will change your tune. That last sentence is a verifiable lie.

You just tried to cite a FIVE MINUTE COOLDOWN, which is our last resort damage reduction, as a form of mobility... That is laughable.

We have steed and freedom, that's our mobility kit.

Steed is on the GCD, has a longer cooldown than every other class' primary means of gap closing, and relies entirely on freedom, which is also on the GCD to function, and freedom can be removed instantly by a single dispel, which shuts down steed.

Our mobility is garbage, quit telling blatant lies. A Survival Hunter, with JUST harpoon, has better functional mobility than a Ret with Steed and Freedom, because when you use it at least you know for a fact that you will actually get to your target.On top of that it has a lower cooldown, which means if your target opens the gap again it takes less time for you to close it again, and again, you are guaranteed to close it when you press that button, we are not.
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Ret Paladins shine on movement and cleave which ToS is definitely a lot more friendly to us.


I disagree with your assessment, particularly at the Mythic level. Avatar of Sargeras is nightmarish for Paladins. KJ wasn't great either, but nothing like Avatar. Among melee, we are arguably the least mobile class along with DK's, so the quote 'shine on movement' isn't true.
10/11/2017 01:56 PMPosted by Manales

You can have 2 charges of steed, which alone outside of a warrior heroic leap charge is nice. You can bubble out of almost anything to gap close rather quickly using steed and HoJ. Look at survival as an example they have harpoon disengage which isnt baseline as survival and cheetah which is an atrocious speed boost. Rets mobility is by far one of the better ones for melee in the game.
first one we DO NOT have 2 charges of steed we have one you can talent into 2. Much like as you were talking about harpoon, which by the way is a 30 second CHARGE. Are you trying to have basic math prove you wrong. You have a 30 second CD we have 45, we have to run to our target you get sent there, good job basic math wins again. BoJ gives us ZERO movement speed, so I don't know what your smoking on this. Not being slowed isn't mobility. Bubble? You claim bubble is mobility? What are you smoking? It's a 5 min CD that 9/10 times is used to SOAK something, so ya...... really need to research first bro.
10/11/2017 01:56 PMPosted by Manales
10/11/2017 01:50 PMPosted by Bryiah
...Could you please tell me what your smoking right now? Just the basic math of mobility CD's ALONE across every melee class (not counting DK's) make this statement a complete lie.


You can have 2 charges of steed, which alone outside of a warrior heroic leap charge is nice. You can bubble out of almost anything to gap close rather quickly using steed and HoJ. Look at survival as an example they have harpoon disengage which isnt baseline as survival and cheetah which is an atrocious speed boost. Rets mobility is by far one of the better ones for melee in the game.


Ok, read what you just typed...but slowly, very slowly.

If you didnt find any mistakes, let me point them out:

1- If you plan on bubbling to then steed to your opponent, you deserve to get sacked on every pvp match you set foot into.

You are suggestiong that we waste 8 secs of immunity to remove snares/slows, to then waste another 2 or more to reach target and have whatever is remaining to try to dps said person down? Assuming he wont just blink away or tank our damage?

Are you that much of a scrub?

Bubble is meant to be a last resort in case people are trying to melt us, and that is because it has 4 min cd (so it wont be back before you are sacked), not something to compliment divine steed. Your statement is bad and you should feel bad, specially because if you use bubble that way you are, without a doubt, BAD!!!

2- those 2 charges of steed mean !@#$ because steed doesnt remove slows/snares, you need to combo it with something (if you dont suck, that would be HoF, if you do, it will be bubble) so its "effective".

When it comes to gap closers, we are bottonline and our mobility is trash tier. Death knights are frigging bricks with legs and they have better gap closer + slow + movement than paladins.

3- saying our mobility is one of the best is probably the best joke i heard in a while. Try to compare to other melees and you will see how we are when it comes to mobility.
10/11/2017 01:56 PMPosted by Manales

You can have 2 charges of steed, which alone outside of a warrior heroic leap charge is nice.
I REALLY want to pick on this. You only name warriors heroic leap, but they also have charge.... Monk and Demon Hunters have 2 charges of roll/fel rush, monks also have Flying BS kick and DH have a disengage and a 10 yard charge. Kitty druids have a 30 second blink or 15 second charge and that doesn't even count the passive movement they have. Shamans have to talent into their charge that's 30 or a 2 min aoe sprint but they can still instantly go ghost wolf at ANY TIME and get that movement boost. Already explained survival and don't even get me started on rogues....

The only class that has anything like us in terms of mobility is DK's, however DK's have death grip so they don't need to move they can pull things to them. Now in ToS this isn't as good as it use to be as you can't pull soaks to you. The DK is the only other class/spec that can complain about lack of mobility.
10/11/2017 02:35 PMPosted by Bryiah
You only name warriors heroic leap, but they also have charge....
And warriors can also have 2 charges of charge(and this talent also reduces it's CD by 3 seconds).

Monk and Demon Hunters have 2 charges of roll/fel rush, monks also have Flighting BS kick and DH have a disengage and a 10 yard charge.
Monks can also talent into a third charge of roll (which also reduces it's CD by 5 seconds) or into a 30sCD, 6s duration 70% sprint that is off the GCD, and removes snares/roots when used... Or into Chi Torpedo, which in addition to making their roll go much further also gives them 10s of +30% movespeed.

Kitty druids have a 30 second blink or 15 second charge and that doesn't even count the passive movement they have.
Not to mention their ability to shapeshift out of roots and snares at will.

Shamans have to talent into their charge that's 30 or a 2 min aoe sprint but they can still instantly go ghost wolf at ANY TIME and get that movement boost.
AND Ghost Wolf prevents the Shaman from being reduced below 100% movement speed.
10/11/2017 01:46 PMPosted by Divenity
2 charges i.e cavalier gives more than enough mobility if needed.
in PvE, maybe, but we're still barely more mobile than DK, assuming mobility isn't required more than 1 time every 45 seconds, because if it is, you're never gonna get that second charge of steed back anyways, which makes cav all but useless.

In PvP? Hell no it doesn't.

garbage tier mobility either way.

Just be glad you don't have wraithwalk.
WW is better than steed in PvP. It suppresses snares on it's own, doesn't require 2 GCDs to be functional, and can't be shut down entirely by a single dispel.


I'm fairly certain you don't know how WW works, exactly. First off it's a channel, meaning we can't do anything while we are moving with it. So, that's great, we can "suppress" that snare (not roots, roots !@#$ us) until the ability ends and we are slowed again. That btw, is IF we get to use it, because due to it being a channel, its also interruptable. We can actually get spell locked and not be able to cast anything (most of our abilities are considered spells) and our ONLY movement CD is gone for 45 seconds. So, you can do things (like dps) during your movement CD, and you have the availability of freedom which instantly makes you guys so much more mobile it hurts. I'm by no means saying you guys are "mobile melee", but trust me the grass isn't greener.
10/11/2017 01:56 PMPosted by Manales
Rets mobility is by far one of the better ones for melee in the game.


You are insane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EogTZ0TZfI4

And how are we middle of the pack exactly?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13/

We are below every class, except those that have another DPS option that is much higher.

*Edit* Our "class fantasy" is apparently a slow moving, heavy hitter. If we catch you, and set up a judgement window, and build up our combo points, we can put a heavy hit on something. Kinda like...an arms warrior? Look where they are in the meters. Why does our builder do more damage than our spender? What happened to the design? TV needs a buff, plain and simple. And steed needs to at a minimum break roots, slows and snares when it's cast. Or make Freedom non-dispellable. Like we've been saying all expansion.
10/11/2017 02:57 PMPosted by Melantri

I'm fairly certain you don't know how WW works, exactly.
I'm well aware.

First off it's a channel, meaning we can't do anything while we are moving with it.
And if you aren't in melee range of your target you aren't doing anything anyways.

we can "suppress" that snare (not roots, roots !@#$ us) until the ability ends and we are slowed again.
We don't even get that. Steed is, as I have said repeatedly in this thread, entirely reliant on Freedom to function. If Freedom Gets Dispelled, which it will, Steed is useless. It also requires 2 GCDs to function, which means we have to either steed first, and then freedom, in which case we spend half of Steed in a snare, or, we Freedom first, and it gets dispelled probly before we can even cast Steed because of the GCD.

That btw, is IF we get to use it, because due to it being a channel, its also interruptable. We can actually get spell locked and not be able to cast anything (most of our abilities are considered spells) and our ONLY movement CD is gone for 45 seconds.
Most of our abilities are also considered spells.

Wratih Walk is listed as physical school, not shadow or frost, which should mean it's uninterruptable, though I've never actually tested that. Steed is Holy school, if we get interrupted casting a FoL, we can't Steed, or do most other things, even bubble.

So, you can do things (like dps) during your movement CD
Doesn't matter when we're using it as a gap closer, can't hit things when we're not in range to begin with.

and you have the availability of freedom
Which always gets dispelled.

The grass isn't greener.

It's sure as hell not greener here than there either.
10/11/2017 02:57 PMPosted by Melantri
and you have the availability of freedom which instantly makes you guys so much more mobile it hurts.
You know what I'll trade you, freedom for death grip and we will see who gets into more raids then. People seem to think freedom is mobility it isn't, that's like claiming walking is mobility. How many NON AVOIDABLE things are there that slow targets so much today that they have to have freedom?
10/11/2017 12:57 PMPosted by Ythisens
Ret Paladins shine on movement


AND, we wonder why Legion Balance is so awful? Reading that sentence made me sick to my stomach that these Devs in charge of making the game better are so clueless.

Seems like we have a bunch of Druid/Rogue mains balancing the game and we wonder why M+ invitationals is all Druids and Rgoues.
10/11/2017 03:47 PMPosted by Bryiah
10/11/2017 02:57 PMPosted by Melantri
and you have the availability of freedom which instantly makes you guys so much more mobile it hurts.
You know what I'll trade you, freedom for death grip and we will see who gets into more raids then. People seem to think freedom is mobility it isn't, that's like claiming walking is mobility. How many NON AVOIDABLE things are there that slow targets so much today that they have to have freedom?


IF the 30% speed increase PVP talent were baseline for freedom in all content, it would be great. And maybe justify it being dispellable. But that isn't the case. Freedom is rarely as useful as it once was.

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