Modified Class Balance

Classic Discussion
11/15/2017 08:25 AMPosted by Xoja

This is some dense logic. Clearly changes that were made throughout Vanilla are acceptable. Changes not made in Vanilla are not.


So end of Vanilla is a perfection in class balance, every talent do whatever it is supposed to do ? Over representation of Warriors/Mages/Rogues is not an issue ? Who is talking about adding Cyclone or Lifebloom ? I am advocating in favor of class balance, not class revamp.

I don't know why the no-academy think class balance is about bringing Legion classes in Vanilla.
11/15/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Sabever
I woke up today to read a blue post that indicated that the Dev team was considering class balance modifications.
Anyone got a link for this blue post?
12/05/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Cq
11/15/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Sabever
I woke up today to read a blue post that indicated that the Dev team was considering class balance modifications.
Anyone got a link for this blue post?


It doesn't exist. He's just fishing for a reaction.
12/05/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Cq
11/15/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Sabever
I woke up today to read a blue post that indicated that the Dev team was considering class balance modifications.
Anyone got a link for this blue post?


Do a tiny bit of work between your trolls, it's not like there are many blue posts in this forum...
12/05/2017 01:07 PMPosted by Cq
11/15/2017 05:10 AMPosted by Sabever
I woke up today to read a blue post that indicated that the Dev team was considering class balance modifications.
Anyone got a link for this blue post?


This is a thread from Nov 15. Since then Blizz has come out to definitively say "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges".
11/15/2017 08:04 AMPosted by Akaidian
Cry me a river scrubs. Just because you want to actively hate on ret, enh, etc, doesn't mean you should have an avenue to do it thanks to the original team's disdain for them.


I don't hate on Retribution paladin Protection Paladin, Enhancement Shaman, Elemental shaman, Shadow priest, Feral druid or Balance druid, Fury warrior, Arms Warrior Sub Rogue, Assassination rogue, Demonology Warlock, Affliction Warlock, Fire Mage, Arcane Mage, SV Hunter, BM hunter. You know, every single talent tree that don't get a tier set and is forced to make due on second hand Leather or Cloth.

You're possibly one of the most flagrant complainers in these forums; there are a hand full of you guys who endlessly and needlessly complain day and night for changes, buffs, etc. You guys are not happy with the modern game and want to play the original game again. Irony that you want to change the original game to be more like the modern game that you're trying to avoid.

What use is it to Blizzard to have 2 games that are the same thing? Right now, Vanilla often referred to as classic is a totally different game from Legion. With people like you we will have 2 of the same.
Just tell them to not shut down another famous private server with the REAL classic experience without any modifications. We gave them a chance but if they're planning to ruin it then so be it.
Current millennials - 1
WoW originals - 0
It's not about winning with huge stacks of $$, it's about the original brand. Btw it's already scary the fact that they just recently opened a position for a WoW classic developer, it'll vary on that person's perspective and I can't wait to watch how fast that person will fall into greed.
No Williams, we will have a game that has similarities, just like we do now, except we will have a game with what I consider the better parts of both. Vanilla is 90% there, with useless specs being the only real short coming IMO. Legion is like 50% there, with good raids and class balance, but so many other problems and branching to the modern direction of loot-crate style loot where /played is what matters and any dumb activity can give good rewards that it's beyond saving to me.

I preferred low levels, talent trees, lots of base spells, inconveniences, etc of vanilla. I just really wish it had continued the way it was, patching in new raids and continuing to flesh out balance, instead of go ham with an expansion.
11/15/2017 05:15 AMPosted by Batmön
Oh yeah, I'm totally hyped to play !@#$ty hybrids again and having to respec if I ever want to play a healer for my group. Also I love being a %^-*ty healer and taking hours to grind my mobs because my m8s aren't able to play with me 100% of the time. I know that rogues and mages totally understand this feeling *sarcasm*.

This is like a rogue posting on a shaman forum "oh yeah, sure they don't need any buffs, imagine if we couldn't steamroll their faces on a 1min stunlock??".

I always thought TBC was better than Vanilla, maybe this isn't for me and I'd just have to wait for the TBC server, but really, some classes DO need some buffs to be at least viable in Vanilla, or else it will be the same !@#$ty "You want to play a ret paladin? hahahah *kicks*".


I agree with you, but vanilla is not vanilla if it is modified. Also, Paladins and Shamans were tough to balance since they were faction specific. If the Paladin is given a viable tanking spec/equipment in Vanilla WoW then it would break faction balance etc etc.

TBC was also my favorite expansion. It seems like it took everything good from Vanilla wow and polished it up and made the hybrid classes versatile, they didnt feel like a afterthought as it felt to play one in Vanilla WoW. My single complaint at that time [TBC] was Paladin tanks, i played a MT warrior then and i could tank multiple targets - but it was a tab tab tab fest and it took work, a Paladin just spammed Consecrate and that was it and he could hold infinite number of mobs. /shrug. To me it seemed like the easyness of the Paladin tank in TBC, is what led to tanking in general to be dumbed down in WOTLK and onwards to where it is now today.

Server wise, I would like to see a TBC server released eventually, or a "evolving server" where it goes from Vanilla WoW for 2 or 3 years and then it progresses to TBC for 2 or 3 years and then it resets. But no matter what im glad they are doing this since there is a demand for it.
12/05/2017 01:56 PMPosted by Akaidian
No Williams, we will have a game that has similarities, just like we do now, except we will have a game with what I consider the better parts of both. Vanilla is 90% there, with useless specs being the only real short coming IMO. Legion is like 50% there, with good raids and class balance, but so many other problems and branching to the modern direction of loot-crate style loot where /played is what matters and any dumb activity can give good rewards that it's beyond saving to me.

I preferred low levels, talent trees, lots of base spells, inconveniences, etc of vanilla. I just really wish it had continued the way it was, patching in new raids and continuing to flesh out balance, instead of go ham with an expansion.


I love how you just "know" what we are gonna get. Are you psychic? Are you in cahoots with the dev team? Or are you are just an entitled idiot whose vision of vanilla is the only objective vision and it MUST surely come true right? Get over yourself. It isnt over till the fat lady sings and you might be surprised if shes not singing your song in the end.
11/15/2017 08:04 AMPosted by Akaidian
Cry me a river scrubs. Just because you want to actively hate on ret, enh, etc, doesn't mean you should have an avenue to do it thanks to the original team's disdain for them.

I'll be happy when you can no longer just auto-roll warrior or rogue and know ahead of time you'll be topping every meter. Sorry you don't want competition with your overpowered bull!@#$.

11/15/2017 07:57 AMPosted by Sabever
Not until they can stop this insanity.

I love how every purist sensationalizes it like the world is ending if vanilla isn't 100% vanilla like it was where you could be prejudice about certain classes.

It's not insanity just because they might end up not agreeing with you or doing something you don't want.


I agree with you and am hoping for some balance tweeks but planning on none. Don't worry, either way the warriors and rogues WILL have competition this time around. I know very few former WoW players in real life but even amongst that miniscule sample size there are more than 1 former hybrid player ready to see how the overpowered half lived by rolling warrior or rogue.

~ 40+% warrior & rogue population sounds like some pretty "authentic" competition. In other words, hope for the best but if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

/evilgrin
Balancing classes is not vanilla. Not only is it not vanilla, it is not even close to vanilla.


How is it not vanilla if it was a part of every patch in vanilla?
11/15/2017 05:13 AMPosted by Rongente
No balancing. Touch PvE balance and it ruins PvP. Touch PvP balance and it ruins PvE


Too bad neither of them were balanced by the end of Vanilla.

11/15/2017 06:00 AMPosted by Gambanteinn
Then go advocate for your own, separate servers. Stop trying to !@#$ over these servers.


We advocated for Classic every bit, if not more, than you did.

11/15/2017 07:57 AMPosted by Sabever
I resubbed just because of their Classic announcement. Prior to that I had sworn off Blizz games. It is not that Blizz does not make good games. Heck they make great games. It is that Blizzard was saying FU to the fan base. Now I am back in the no more Blizzard games camp. Not until they can stop this insanity.


Sounds like you're not the intended audience. I know I wouldn't design a product around such a fickle customer base.

11/15/2017 08:21 AMPosted by Xoja
Classic is finally announced and people clamor for changes to it, changes to classes, changes to how it's played.


Because we were too busy clamoring for Vanilla. Why would we discuss the next step when we're busy getting Blizzard just to acknowledge we liked the old game?
11/15/2017 05:54 AMPosted by Batmön
I just want it to be a little more balanced so that I can play the spec I want without feeling I should roll a Rogue, Warrior or Mage.


No. Hybrids bring utility, regardless of "spec". Utility is their strength and they should NOT compete with the holy trinity of pure classes.
Never cared for any more utility than I had in Vanilla. Sad logging this toon in now to see my talent trees removed. What utter garbage.
12/05/2017 03:23 PMPosted by Faustor
I love how you just "know" what we are gonna get.


Please point out where I say I know what we're getting versus just expressing what I hope we get?

I was responding to Williams and his idea that "What use is it to Blizzard to have 2 games that are the same thing?" and showing how they would still be different things, even if there were some changes.
This is a thread from Nov 15. Since then Blizz has come out to definitively say "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges".


This only defines what won't be considered. (BC to Legion stuff.) It doesn't define anything else.

Give Blizzard non-circular descriptions of vanilla. (It's different for everyone, which is why they want us to talk about it.)
I don't understand all the people who want changes. Im planning on rolling a druid and messing around as balance and feral for pvp, but if I'm going to raid I will just go resto. I consider druids to be in a really good spot because they have a guarenteed spot in raids as a healer and can gear up really easy. Then there's at least 5 viable pvp builds that own face, plus as a druid you can always escape if the fight isn't in your favor. Not to mention that you can flag carry farm your way up to rank 12. You can heal your teammates. Castable Cc. Stealth. Abolish poison. Unrootable. Can't be poly'. The most appealing part of druid for me is that they're the least played class so you get hipster points for being unique. There's also wolshead helm that makes feral druid viable raid dps. Now why should druids get buffed to where they're great at everything? I want to play something challenging that no one else is doing. NO CLASS HOMOGENIZATION.
12/06/2017 08:11 AMPosted by Pujol
I don't understand all the people who want changes. Im planning on rolling a druid and messing around as balance and feral for pvp, but if I'm going to raid I will just go resto.

It's simple and should also be simple to understand. Some people like a spec and hate particular roles.

Now why should druids get buffed to where they're great at everything?


Because, with the exception of resto, none of that stuff matters or makes them any more viable in PVE, so if you don't like resto, you get shafted.

I want to play something challenging that no one else is doing. NO CLASS HOMOGENIZATION.


No one is asking for homogenization, and it's a fallacy perpetuated by blizz that it's required to get to a "balanced" state. It's entirely theoretically possible to do it without removing, adding, or changing the mechanics of any spell in the game. Would they be willing to put in the effort? No idea. My experience says "doubtful."

This is always the worst part about any blizz game.
12/06/2017 08:17 AMPosted by Akaidian
No one is asking for homogenization, and it's a fallacy perpetuated by blizz that it's required to get to a "balanced" state. It's entirely theoretically possible to do it without removing, adding, or changing the mechanics of any spell in the game. Would they be willing to put in the effort? No idea. My experience says "doubtful."

This is always the worst part about any blizz game.


When the differences between classes are such that the time it takes to find a better DPS class such as a rogue over an inferior one such as Ret Paladin is greater than the extra time it takes to progress just taking the Ret Paladin, class balance will be achieved.

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