What made WotLK so great?

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09/23/2017 06:32 PMPosted by Scrilla
09/23/2017 03:12 AMPosted by Zeitsev
Like there is the dungeon where you help a troll retake an ancient troll stronghold from undead and a lizard/dinosaur infestation, only to find out he was only retaking it to betray the trolls to the Lich King. You then later find him in the world as an overlord, empowered by the Lich King (and he offers you a job!). You take it, end up betraying him, he calls the LK to kill you since you betrayed him, the LK BLOWS HIM UP for being a failure, and spares your life since your betrayal "amused" him. Then right as the Horde and Alliance decide to work together and storm ICC, some unruly Forsaken come and bomb the crap out of everything and everyone in the hope of killing Arthas. "Death to the Scourge, and death TO THE LIVING!". Afterward both factions have to go storm the Undercity and smack the Dreadlord that's been chilling down there for ages. Good stuff like that was sprinkled everywhere.

Daaaaaammmmmmnnnn! That passage *sounded* exciting, I can only imagine playing through it.

I wouldn't mind questing like this going forward. Then again, I have not been to Argus yet and I heard that questing was dramatic (at least for WoW).


Here's a link to the Wrathgate cinematic if you haven't seen it. The Horde players spent a good portion of questing on developing some ultra plague with the Undead. Afterward the dragons burn everything to keep it from spreading.

Good stuff.
AP grind didn't exist... that alone makes any expansion better than this one!
Never thought I'd say it but I miss WoD.

AP grind really is the worst idea Blizzard have ever come up with in the history of bad ideas that Blizzard have come up with!
09/23/2017 09:23 PMPosted by Whïtström
09/23/2017 09:23 PMPosted by Mikdra
Yeah, you need to pull out the crayons. When I think of the launch zones of Cata and MoP, clutter is absolutely not what comes to mind. To my mind, Mount Hyjal isn't any more cramped than old Azshara; Jade Forest isn't any more maze like than old Thousand Needles.


Why is it so difficult for you to explain why it was hard to navigate 4 of the 5 Cata launch zones given that you were expected to fly through them? How were Valley of the Four Winds, Kun-Lai Summit, Townlong Steppes and Dread Wastes less open than Sholazar Basin or Grizzly Hills?

I can see what you're driving at since I will agree that a number of WoD zones and pretty much every Legion zone fit your criteria, but I just don't see some kind of smooth transition from Dragonblight design to Spires of Arak design via the two intermediate expansions.
I loved the zones, music, factions, story and overall leveling experience. I wanted to live in Northrend. The place was so vast and full of spirit.

I also really enjoyed the raids (especially Ulduar) and dungeons. If I recall correctly, heroics dropped badges or gave valor, or something like that which you could use to purchase tier pieces which was a fun aside thing to work on if you were having bad luck in raids. I still know all those dungeons like the back of my hand because they stayed somewhat relevant for a really long time and as such I ran them, happily, for a really long time.

I also felt like my professions were meaningful and a great avenue for earning gold if you were willing to put in the work.

It's not like people had no complaints or that I didn't get bored at any point during wrath... I remeber the things I didnt like right along with the things I did like... but in general I felt like I could set all these goals and work toward them with measurable and dependable results. This kept me interested and in high spirits.

The difference now is that loot rains from the sky without my really having to work for it, while other things I do work for (I.e. paragon mounts) are held outside of my reach by RNG for unpredictable amounts of time. I don't feel like I earned anything. I just keep running on the hamster wheel and wait for rain. It's really lame compared to a classic, finite grind.
09/22/2017 06:43 PMPosted by Scrilla
tell me what was so great about the WotLK

It came with fries and a drink.
Do I really need to pull my crayons out and color you a picture for you to get this? There was a marked change in environment design beginning in Cata which has progressively led to things becoming more and more cluttered with each new expansion. You either get it or you don't.

I think doing literally anything at all to explain how you drew that conclusion would be helpful, yes.

09/23/2017 09:39 PMPosted by Mikdra
I just don't see some kind of smooth transition from Dragonblight design to Spires of Arak design via the two intermediate expansions.

Yeah, WoD is where I would have said it began to change. Even then, other than Spires of Arak, most of the zones were still pretty flat, though they did make a bit more use of vertical elements and unevenness in terrain.
Zone where ok
PVP in world was good kind of before 3v3 so there was 1v1
5 mans where ok
first raid I missed
after that did most started in Nax
LOL there where talents you could use , Your gear worked if you got right stats , today its what blizz thinks you need , LAZY putting prot or arms or fury means little you get same gear I hear its same for most classes . My biggest miss is reg 10 man 25 man raids as reg and heroic that you could run each 10 / 25 if you wanted to .
LOL there is 4 raids now and non are as good as they where in LK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though I still like BC better LK was really good
Buying flying with gold. No pathfinder.
Blood Dk dps
09/23/2017 08:17 PMPosted by Fenier
09/22/2017 09:58 PMPosted by Matcauthon
Decently difficult dungeons? Everything was Faceroll.

The amount of groups who died to Halls of Reflection may want a word...

The Oculus was also "a long way down". ;-)
With WotLK they got nearly everything right. Pre-Cataclysm, all the wonderful quests and lore and epic dungeon crawls were still intact, so leveling was still challenging and fun. Cross-server play was just beginning, so the server communities still meant something, and the social aspect of the game, with your guild and your friends, was central to the experience. The richness of the roleplay elements, with the talent trees and glyphs and enchants, was at its height, and the classes were still varied and unique. The story, as many here have said, was as good as it's ever been, and the zones, quests, dungeons, and raids were mostly quite well done. The population was its peak, and they opened up the end game to the "casual" players who were always the vast majority, so family guilds were able to gear up and raid. Dalaran was an awesome hub, and both it and many of the zones were designed for flying, an ability that was available to all, not gated behind an onerous grind. The factions still mattered, the Horde and the Alliance were not all one happy family, but there was this sense of being united by a truly formidable common enemy, in the Lich King and the Scourge. Anyway, that's my list. The game has gone downhill on almost every metric since then, and I wish so much that we could get some of that feeling back again.
Howling Fjord and Glizzly Hills look awesome
The Lich King!

It just grabbed you, and there was a strong storyline with popular characters all the way through.

Of course, people also hated it as much as any other expansion. There was crying about 'welfare epics', gearscore, how unfair their talent trees were, jousting, and how unbalanced all the classes were, especially DKs.
For me it was how they split the leveling path into two separate and opposite zones of the map. I also loved the lore, character development and how the Lich King felt present (even if it was overdone a bit) throughout the leveling process. Oh and Ulduar, all of it.
09/24/2017 12:58 AMPosted by Wombocomboo
Howling Fjord and Glizzly Hills look awesome

Grizzly Hills will always be one of the most beautiful zones in the game.
09/22/2017 06:43 PMPosted by Scrilla
Never got to experience it in its prime. I know the game has changed but wanted some of you veterans to reminisce and tell me what was so great about the WotLK. Every time people have a thread on rating the expansions WotLK always comes out on top or close. Help me understand why.

FYI - I think Legion is the best expansion but I started with Pandaria.

The undead
To my mind Wrath gave us everything a great RPG should give: exciting zones that differ from each other, beautiful music, a large array of different activities one could pursue to keep you interested (raids, dungeons, quests, jousting, pvp, professions, achievements), interesting classes where you get to choose your path (even if a lot of people went cookie cutter, a lot also didn't), and a vast and engaging storyline, with a truly fearsome (everpresent) foe to defeat.

Sure it had it's issues, every game ever created does. But apart from the rusted on elitists that resented that the "casual" could do the same stuff they did, and went out of their way to find ways to exclude the "casuals" (gearscore), I think most people liked it.

My personal loves: professions, vehicle combat, flying, old-style Hunter before the removal of mana, the zones and music, Ulduar, TOC & ToTC, Oculus, Wintergrasp, Argent Tournament.
Dislikes: gearscore, elitist guilds that picked up pug players only to kick them soon as you made even the slightest error or died, pug groups that said they were doing full clears only to disband after 1 wing, that warriors and rogues would need on hunter specific bows, engineers that charged waaaaaaaay too much for arrows.
I didn't think it was that great.

I mostly play alone, with anything you could do alone being pretty grindy (the Argent Tournament, etc.)

It did seem real cool and connected, as far as the lore and stuff.
09/22/2017 06:43 PMPosted by Scrilla
Never got to experience it in its prime. I know the game has changed but wanted some of you veterans to reminisce and tell me what was so great about the WotLK. Every time people have a thread on rating the expansions WotLK always comes out on top or close. Help me understand why.

FYI - I think Legion is the best expansion but I started with Pandaria.

WotLK was the first expansion that tried to balance all DPS specs by doing away with hybrid tax. Ret paladins and balance druids for instance were considered leveling specs and were brought to raids (rarely) for utility since their DPS wasn't really up to par.

It had some really good raids. Ulduar and ICC were some of WoW's finest. Naxx was recycled, TotC was widely complained about and Ruby Sanctum was quite small, but the expansion offered heaps of raiding content regardless.

DKs were a really exciting topic at launch and their starting questline was fantastic for its time.

PVP was good too. There were some pretty balanced seasons in wrath aside from S5. Classes had a lot of utility spells but hadn't quite hit a point where it felt too bloated. Wintergrasp is one of the only world PVP zones that I have pretty fond memories of. Gear played a large role, but both teams could get pretty massive so there was an interesting balance of actual character progression and simply having superior team play. In my opinion vehicular combat is well-suited to very large scale battlegrounds.

Wrath had good aesthetics in general, too. Most tier sets that I can recall were fantastic and a lot of the raids and dungeons were super impressive.

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