Battle for Azeroth - 2H Frost

Death Knight
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12/22/2017 08:59 AMPosted by Akusalol
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2h frost was better for pve until hfc? Bahahahahaha.

Yes 2h frost was better than dw until then Bahahahahahaha.


2h frost was alright when first tier began, and then by the end of the tier it became a joke, because the spec barely scales with anything. Your Obliterate crit slightly higher in hfc than it did in blackrock foundry. Lmao. The spec was a joke.
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Yes 2h frost was better than dw until then Bahahahahahaha.


2h frost was alright when first tier began, and then by the end of the tier it became a joke, because the spec barely scales with anything. Your Obliterate crit slightly higher in hfc than it did in blackrock foundry. Lmao. The spec was a joke.


You act like scaling isnt something that blizzard could literally fix in a small hotfix. The balance of the two play styles is completely irrelevant to the argument because its a play style debate here not a numbers one.

Blizzard couldve easy made 2handed frost the go to in legion but they chose duel wield which no surprise pissed off a lot of dks including me
Honestly I always thought it was kind of weird the way the specs were designed. I'd say if they were dedicated to having DKs have a dual wield spec then if anything it should be Unholy.

Frost has always been advertised as the slow, hard hitting spec which really makes no sense at all from a dual wield perspective.

I really hope they scrap the whole frost dual wield fantasy and go straight 2h. I'd switch to frost on my DK in a heartbeat.
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2h frost was alright when first tier began, and then by the end of the tier it became a joke, because the spec barely scales with anything. Your Obliterate crit slightly higher in hfc than it did in blackrock foundry. Lmao. The spec was a joke.


You act like scaling isnt something that blizzard could literally fix in a small hotfix. The balance of the two play styles is completely irrelevant to the argument because its a play style debate here not a numbers one.

Blizzard couldve easy made 2handed frost the go to in legion but they chose duel wield which no surprise pissed off a lot of dks including me


Given that 2h frost has suffered from the same scaling problem ever since its birth, I would say that it is indeed not so easy to fix. Its largest problem is that the entire spec revolved around a physical damage attack, that mostly only scaled with weapon damage. And your mastery increases frost damage, so put the 2 and 2 together.
PLEASE! 2H frost! I have ALWAYS hated the DW frost DK... I much more prefer 2H. It was kind of a slap in the face giving us toothpicks from Frostmourne to use instead of a properly reforged 2H Frostmourne.

Please Blizzard, let us have 2H back!
12/21/2017 04:14 PMPosted by Zorvix
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Have they stated exactly how?
Even if it's not as prominent, if it isn't capped to a really reasonable level (like Mists Warforging/Thunderforging), even if it's not as prominent; it'll still be kinda iffy if it can go 20-30 ilvls higher.
Just something I've been curious about.
They more or less stated at Blizzcon and subsequent interviews about BfA that the current iteration, X->nX (930->955, 915->985 as examples) would stay. Whether it's a 5 increase or something smaller like a 2-3 iLvl to keep inflation down, we don't know, but the massive forges are staying and will cause a big discrepancy between 2H and DW classes, unless they suddenly decide weapons can't forge.


Thinking about this I had a thought that seems like not a bad way to deal with it. Not sure how everyone would feel about it though. If they insist on keeping their massive titanforges moving forward, maybe a way to keep it fair for everyone would be to make 1h drops in game drop a pair of weapons instead of just one. And if it warforges both weapons warforge to the same item level just like a 2h would. This doesn't just help with WF/TF though. 2h in general has always had the advantage in this department. it's easier to get a good ilvl single 2h weapon with good stats than having to do that for two different weapons.

The only problem I could see with this is the weapon speeds. Not sure how all the classes work now but I remember in the past some rogue specs preferring slow mh weapon with a fast offhand weapon, etc. While like with dks, assassination wanted two slow weapons because their attacks hit with both weapons.

Looks wise it would make the most sense to make both weapons look the same unless they really wanted to get detailed and creative and differentiate the mh and oh from each other. But either way both would still need be able to be transmogrified individually to keep current player customization options.
12/23/2017 04:10 AMPosted by Valogosa
Frost has always been advertised as the slow, hard hitting spec which really makes no sense at all from a dual wield perspective.


It was advertised as slow and probably always was in term of movement but hard hitting was never really a staple. It was hard hitting if you went with the 2h sub spec but it was sub par in most iteration because of terrible scaling issue. At the same time, the not so hard hitting but flurry of hit sub spec was available for most of the spec existence and also happen to be the one which worked best in term of number most of the time.
12/23/2017 06:12 PMPosted by Stabnslash
It was hard hitting if you went with the 2h sub spec but it was sub par in most iteration because of terrible scaling issue
would someone really do that

just go on the internet and tell lies?
12/24/2017 04:40 AMPosted by Dreadmoore
12/23/2017 06:12 PMPosted by Stabnslash
It was hard hitting if you went with the 2h sub spec but it was sub par in most iteration because of terrible scaling issue
would someone really do that

just go on the internet and tell lies?


2h was always crap because of scaling issues, what's the lie? You're barely a stone's throw away from an LFR player, what would you even know about it?
The only way to fix frost 2h is giving them the unholy or Arms Warrior Treatment, make 2h scale with mastery, make frost be slow but hard hitting, 2h Frost can be a "Strike 3x" skill like the Hand of Justice trinket of the old

Dual wield through this XPAC was a complete cluester!@#$ of bad descisions, even rogues are suffering, frost is doing well on Antorus ATM because most of the fights are AoE
12/24/2017 01:13 PMPosted by Diomades
The only way to fix frost 2h is giving them the unholy or Arms Warrior Treatment, make 2h scale with mastery, make frost be slow but hard hitting, 2h Frost can be a "Strike 3x" skill like the Hand of Justice trinket of the old

Dual wield through this XPAC was a complete cluester!@#$ of bad descisions, even rogues are suffering, frost is doing well on Antorus ATM because most of the fights are AoE

It's not even bad on ST.
12/24/2017 02:21 PMPosted by Akusalol
12/24/2017 01:13 PMPosted by Diomades
The only way to fix frost 2h is giving them the unholy or Arms Warrior Treatment, make 2h scale with mastery, make frost be slow but hard hitting, 2h Frost can be a "Strike 3x" skill like the Hand of Justice trinket of the old

Dual wield through this XPAC was a complete cluester!@#$ of bad descisions, even rogues are suffering, frost is doing well on Antorus ATM because most of the fights are AoE

It's not even bad on ST.
I think it's AoE isn't that good but that seems to be a resounding theme with every class this expansion that doesn't multi-dot in some form. With T21 and SS the single target feels really powerful. Most of Frost this expansion has ultimately been weapon independent: NH with Breath, ToS was a non-existent joke, Antorus could go either way if the talents were multifaceted [RA giving 4 for 2h vs 1 for 1h as an example]; EN is ultimately the only one that was truly centered around DW with its MG build.
12/24/2017 02:59 PMPosted by Sylithros
12/24/2017 02:21 PMPosted by Akusalol
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It's not even bad on ST.
I think it's AoE isn't that good but that seems to be a resounding theme with every class this expansion that doesn't multi-dot in some form. With T21 and SS the single target feels really powerful. Most of Frost this expansion has ultimately been weapon independent: NH with Breath, ToS was a non-existent joke, Antorus could go either way if the talents were multifaceted [RA giving 4 for 2h vs 1 for 1h as an example]; EN is ultimately the only one that was truly centered around DW with its MG build.

Frost aoe is pretty strong with frostscythe, just the issue is with these garbage Antorus fights that have all their adds staggered and spread out all over the place out of range while the god kings boomkins and locks can hit everything.
12/23/2017 05:55 AMPosted by Ineedmoneeyy
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You act like scaling isnt something that blizzard could literally fix in a small hotfix. The balance of the two play styles is completely irrelevant to the argument because its a play style debate here not a numbers one.

Blizzard couldve easy made 2handed frost the go to in legion but they chose duel wield which no surprise pissed off a lot of dks including me


Given that 2h frost has suffered from the same scaling problem ever since its birth, I would say that it is indeed not so easy to fix. Its largest problem is that the entire spec revolved around a physical damage attack, that mostly only scaled with weapon damage. And your mastery increases frost damage, so put the 2 and 2 together.


Hotfix: Mastery for frost death knights now also increases Obliterate damage by X%

wow what a complex scaling issue we have here
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Given that 2h frost has suffered from the same scaling problem ever since its birth, I would say that it is indeed not so easy to fix. Its largest problem is that the entire spec revolved around a physical damage attack, that mostly only scaled with weapon damage. And your mastery increases frost damage, so put the 2 and 2 together.


Hotfix: Mastery for frost death knights now also increases Obliterate damage by X%

wow what a complex scaling issue we have here


Do you know how many times this idea has been debunked as the "perfect solution?" Unless the sub specs were separated, all this would do is increase the disparity because it would boost DW more than 2H.
Well i just got a toy from the winter veil present that makes it look like I'm using a 1h and shield and the animations work with it so it's definitely do able for a cosmetic 2h glyph.
12/25/2017 05:32 AMPosted by Manarri
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Hotfix: Mastery for frost death knights now also increases Obliterate damage by X%

wow what a complex scaling issue we have here


Do you know how many times this idea has been debunked as the "perfect solution?" Unless the sub specs were separated, all this would do is increase the disparity because it would boost DW more than 2H.


Hotfix: Might of icecrown,

When using a 2 handed weapon obliterates damage is increased by X% Scaling every X item levels
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Do you know how many times this idea has been debunked as the "perfect solution?" Unless the sub specs were separated, all this would do is increase the disparity because it would boost DW more than 2H.


Hotfix: Might of icecrown,

When using a 2 handed weapon obliterates damage is increased by X% Scaling every X item levels


So we'd have the only mastery in the game that scales with item level? lmao nice. Or how about we just have dw, and then Blizzard doesn't have to play juggling with 2 subspecs to balance? Sounds gud 2 me.
12/22/2017 01:12 AMPosted by Dreadmoore
12/21/2017 07:16 PMPosted by Victor
Name the last time 2H Frost was stronger than dual wield?
For PVP? Basically every expansion except for Legion. For PVE?

idk.


Dual wield was far stronger in WoD PvP. I did over a hundred 2s Carry's in WoD and most games were me and my carry vs another Frost DK and his carry. Zero of those DKs used a 2 Handed weapon.
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Do you know how many times this idea has been debunked as the "perfect solution?" Unless the sub specs were separated, all this would do is increase the disparity because it would boost DW more than 2H.


Hotfix: Might of icecrown,

When using a 2 handed weapon obliterates damage is increased by X% Scaling every X item levels


So, Might of the Frozen Wastes, but worse, because ilvl doesn't scale linearly with damage. So it'd just end up getting band-aid fixed, like it already did, but more often because of an unnecessary factor that hurts more than it helps. And that's on top of absolutely needing to be readdressed every expansion beyond normal tuning because ilvl gains vary from one to the next.

You sure this is still such an easy to solve problem?

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