NO to "Class Balancing"

Classic Discussion
Prev 1 8 9 10 36 Next
help i am panicing
<span class="truncated">...</span>It's more of a personal opinion. As you've read numerous times, the team for Classic is just now coming together, so I wouldn't say there's much of an opinion internally one way or the other.

This is more so a "we", the Community team, remember that class balance was one of the more contentious discussions during the early days - and it could be useful feedback to continue those discussion so we can have a concrete place to look at how players feel Classic balance should be.

Should class balance be left as it was, or should it be tweaked within a certain margin, or should it be constantly tuned and worked on? I'm not so certain that any specific one is the default, correct choice.


Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.
11/14/2017 04:00 PMPosted by Koushi
Reasons warlocks should be nerfed:

They are evil
They consort with demons (sometimes sexy)
They spam fear which is OP
They dot everything and take up debuff slots
They get free mounts
They are cool guys/gals

Deal with warlocks. Annoying, though fightable. Felt like a accomplishment killing one in PvP

11/14/2017 03:58 PMPosted by Jentso
...

Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
I don't think that has necessarily been decided. That decision will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if people want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we want to see that too.

The community will truely be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.

Problem is people who still play retail. Want it like retail, with classic wow skin. Some things in old days were bad. Should be told to suck it up, people end up too focused on raid content instead of doing things like goofing around. Enganging in world PvP or other things. Know a friend who rolled a druid. leveled as moonkin. Almost always out of mana but funny to watch what amounted to giant chicken running through tarren mill .
11/14/2017 04:01 PMPosted by Nermal
11/14/2017 04:00 PMPosted by Koushi
Reasons warlocks should be nerfed:

They are evil
They consort with demons (sometimes sexy)
They spam fear which is OP
They dot everything and take up debuff slots
They get free mounts
They are cool guys/gals


Warlocks only exist to fix the problems the Mages caused. Who sent the demons? MAGES. Who is fixing the problem? WARLOCKS.


There's no such thing as a free lunch (w/ free beverage w/ coupon at participating mages)

What has a warlock ever given you except a radioactive rock and told you to eat it, it definitely won't kill you and is not made of pure cancer?
11/14/2017 04:03 PMPosted by Ornyx

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


I was a tad nervous by the first topic you guys chose to comment on, but this is actually pretty reassuring.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
I don't think that has necessarily been decided. That decision will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truely be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.

Expect the people that don't want any change tries and invalidate other side argument for no reason. They will say a single word "No", or multiword "No Change. Go Play Legion", at lease we know that our voice is getting heard.
While I don't want any changes to classes or spec balancing:

I do think fixing known exploits would be best for the game. You shouldn't be able to divine intervention Razorgore, or have safe spots for Heigan the Unclean or Bloodlord Mandokir.

This doesn't change the gameplay feel at all but rescues some raid encounters from just not being done.
11/14/2017 03:53 PMPosted by Ornyx
This is more so a "we", the Community team, remember that class balance was one of the more contentious discussions during the early days - and it could be useful feedback to continue those discussion so we can have a concrete place to look at how players feel Classic balance should be.

As a personal opinion response, I really don't want things tweaked in the first go-round to bring WOW: Classic to us. I want a working game that replicates the original experience as much as possible.

I've said it in a couple other threads, but better success might be had designating some servers Classic Pure, meaning no (unavoidable) changes beyond server stability and glaring bug fixes, and some servers Classic Enhanced which can adapt (over time after release) to providing balancing, better graphics, a wide variety of QoL (quality of life) changes.

That would get us the game sooner without all the distractions of "should this be changed" and provide a place for those who want something much closer to what we originally played (and presumably what was available on the illegal private servers) to avoid all the upgrading that ultimately sent us away from WOW: Retail at whichever expansion killed the fun for us.
Purists, just stop. Vanilla went through 1 to 1.12, so saying change can't happen to Classic is absurd. Even Warrior was tuned making slam and cleave talents useless, and that was in Vanilla, and yet CC didn't share diminishing returns across classes, allowing for absurd lock downs, which purists will just default to, "call friends or guildies" without realizing that isn't what made Vanilla-Vanilla, and just an excuse trolls cling too.

Classes should be balanced Blizzard because PVP is all over the place, allows for trolling with no diminishing returns, nothing is competitive about that play, and boils down to gear and talents, and pigeonholes players into talent builds in dungeons and raiding.

I've never been opposed to gear giving a player an edge, but when talents have such disparity that everyone becomes essentially a cookie cutter of each other than we just end up with live. The nostalgia of those wearing rose tinted glasses can't see past their own ego, and are cutting off their noses in spite of their faces.
11/14/2017 04:03 PMPosted by Ornyx
...

Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


No change. If you want, go play live.
11/14/2017 04:03 PMPosted by Ornyx
...

Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truely be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


<---- wants a 1:1 vanilla experience. I know I'm in the minority but thats why I came back. Is there going to be polling?

I have this sick feeling, that the overwhelming majority are going to want changes QoL/design features.
I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm just saying its a worthwhile conversation to have in the grand design of "How do we pull this thing off?". Its honestly one of a thousand questions and it isn't as simple as just pick a patch and roll with it. Its very likely that nothing class design wise will change and I'd be fine with that too. I just want the conversation to happen personally.


I'm afraid that changing one thing will cause a cascade of changes, and I'm not talking about the slippery slope here. I mean that, in reworking, say, paladins to be viable tanks, numerous other things will need a touch up which may require other things to get a touch up.
definitely a discussion worth having

far too many people are saying no changes period /thread, and that is not how this works
I believe what most people want is this

"Exact same gameplay and mechanics from patch 1.1 (Fix a few bugs and create a few new ones along the way too). No rewards from Classic->Live(Legion/Battle for Azeroth/NO TRANSMOG)"

Previous game developers already balanced classes at the time there is no need for so called "tuning or the famous and tricky word 'hotfix' "
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Thank you for clarifying.

In my opinion this leaves the entire design aspect of this server now open ended. Just me, but I think it'd be far more productive to first determine what the design goal of this server really is. Is it supposed to be as much of a 1:1 emulation of the old experience as possible? If so, then these discussions are just setting up some false expectations.
That's kind of the beauty of it - I don't think anything has necessarily been decided.

These decisions will really be made by the kind of discussions we see here, so... if folks want a true 1:1 Vanilla experience, then we want to see the discussion of that. If people think there should be changes here or there, then we'll want to see that too.

The community will truly be what shapes the direction of Classic as we move forward, together.


As you may or may not have seen, the community can't even agree as to which version of vanilla they want. If Blizzard wanted to support the 1.12 binary, then they could throw it at us, put up a server, and be done with it. But, since they're not doing that, then we have to look at the state of the game in those days. What was good, what was bad, WHY were they good/bad, what discussions were the devs talking about to address those issues?

I'm looking at the project long-term. The things we asked for then were for good reason, and they got fixed, they just happened to roll into 2.0. So if people complained about certain things then, they're certainly going to complain again now. And that's why I ask about things like LFG (without auto-transport), dual spec, and mail improvements. The "Classic experience", IMO, isn't going to get ruined if I can send Bob 12 items at a time vs. 1.

EDIT: Just one more thing - I look at Classic as "as close to vanilla as possible, with a few things to keep the game from collapsing under the weight of being asked to fix this and that for 10 years".
11/14/2017 04:07 PMPosted by Artigan
Classes should be balanced Blizzard because PVP is all over the place, allows for trolling with no diminishing returns, nothing is competitive about that play, and boils down to gear and talents, and pigeonholes players into talent builds in dungeons and raiding.


LOL. You do realize Blizzard never cares balance? Bad specs are always bad and good specs will always be good since buff underpowered specs = make overpowered specs unhappy = lose profit?
11/14/2017 09:12 AMPosted by Akaidian
11/14/2017 09:10 AMPosted by Frostchi

No one cares. Either find something else to like, or go back to Legion. Ret Paladin in Legion sounds like the perfect RPG Archetype for you (lol class fantasy).


1) It's pretty clear lots of people care, otherwise there would't be so many threads asking for changes, which is why there are also so many people saying don't change it.

2) I've explained why legion still isn't a good fit.

3) If you can tell me to go back to a half-assed version of what I really want I can do the same. Go back to nost, it sounds perfect for you.


I will go back to private servers if Blizzard messes with class balance for Classic' s release. I'd rather deal with some minor bugginess than PAY GOOD MONEY to see Blizz cave to the same whiners who ruined retail. It's not even a close decision. I'll take my $50 and $15/mo. and I will go home.

The reason Blizzard is releasing Classic is because there is a very large market that wants vanilla WoW, warts and all, and is willing to pay for it. Additionally, that market loathes the current game and won't pay for retail. It's a chance for them to capture a market share that is currently denied to them. In fact, that market is currently COSTING them money on lawyers to protect their IP.

We fought for this. We fought for this and you want to waltz the in here, with no skin in the game, and suggest that Blizzard renege on their promise to us.

You want that so badly, you build yourself a private server and a community of people to populate it. And if you keep that going for a decade through shut downs and C&D's and scams, then you have standing to talk. Until then, get out. Get out and don't come back. You're not part of our community and you're not welcome here.

Forum Mod Edit: This post has been edited by a moderator due to language. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/code-of-conduct/
I was very young and very bad during vanilla, I think I only got to level 55 and only reached 60 after TBC was out, so I do not have a good recollection of how specs compared against each other. I have to say that I would be in favor of some minor rebalancing in case some specs were truly not playable at all (Moonkin is one example I hear). Of course, I don't mean that every class should be as good as the other. For example, with a bit of tuning, the best geared Moonking could be made to do at most 80% of the dps of a decently geared mage, but not something like 20% (Again, I don't know if spec imbalances were that high).
11/14/2017 04:08 PMPosted by Nakadashi
I wouldn't read too much into it. I'm just saying its a worthwhile conversation to have in the grand design of "How do we pull this thing off?". Its honestly one of a thousand questions and it isn't as simple as just pick a patch and roll with it. Its very likely that nothing class design wise will change and I'd be fine with that too. I just want the conversation to happen personally.


I'm afraid that changing one thing will cause a cascade of changes, and I'm not talking about the slippery slope here. I mean that, in reworking, say, paladins to be viable tanks, numerous other things will need a touch up which may require other things to get a touch up.


it will be ok

a few changes could make a better experience for everyone

dont worry too much about the slippery slope, worry more about making it fun

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum