Lore limitations.

General Discussion
I feel this has always been the phrase whenever it comes to different race/class combination. Like look at the warlock class. The alliance has been starved of warlocks ever since vanilla because of PVP where horde had forsaken.

But if I wanted to make a Night Elf warlock, I cannot. Night Elves had always had bad experiences with the legion, but now we have a whole section of Night Elves who have taken on the power of the demons themselves. But there were none that tried to control the demons like warlocks?

Draenei rogues don't exist? Even though in Nagrand we meet Draenei who stealth around like rogues?

Forsaken paladins don't exist? If a person was a paladin prior to the curse, it's not like they forgot their past life after the curse. Lillian Voss still remembered her father after her dealing with the curse. But if someone was a human paladin, now they're out of luck when they're forsaken?

Lore limitations suck, especially when lore is tossed around so freely these days.
I'd say two things, I guess.

One, I wish the lore wasn't tossed out so easily these days.

Two, I actually prefer it when certain classes are restricted, etc. It makes the world feel more immersive and realistic. Not all races are going to function the same way, and even though you have outliers, you're not really going to see them much.

The Draenei, I dunno. They can be hunters, and hunters currently can camo, so there's that.

As for the paladin, yeah that's basically exactly what happens. Lore-wise, undead can not wield the light, period. Their priests use shadow healing techniques, akin to shadow mend but multiple flavors. A shadow paladin is a death knight, basically, so there's not a lot of room in the lore for it.

Lore is important, and it should have impacts, because honestly, what is a game world without some kind of binding story? All things are created, and limited, by their environments, their outlooks, and their histories. If we were free to do whatever in the game, all coherency falls apart, making the story itself all that much more ridiculous.
most of the time Lore can be rewritten to allow such combinations (like tauren priests/paladins and NE mages) but for some combos it just doesn't make sense at all.

as much as i'd love Forsaken Paladins, there is a difference in holy priests and paladins, priests use the light, while paladins are infused with the light. in Lore, the Light burns the undead and makes them feel all of their wounds and gives them their senses back (they feel every little thing wrong with their body, like any worms crawling in their organs, they smell their rotting corpse, and all the while they are under immense burning pain). there is a reason 90% of the forsaken priests are Shadow lorewise, and those that do use the Light use it rather sparingly for a Holy priest.

Night elf and Draenei Warlocks do not work atm because their very culture has rejected anything to do with Fel magic. NE demon hunters were exiled along with Illidan to never be able to see their own again, the only reason they were allowed was because of necessity.
Would like Dwarf Druids. If those ankle-biters (looking at you Gnomes) can "tame" Mechanical pets (Don't lie, you built them, didn't 'tame' them), then Dwarves, who already are Earthen-kin, Shaman, well, then by golly, we can be Druids.
10/25/2017 06:09 AMPosted by Pharsalus
Would like Dwarf Druids. If those ankle-biters (looking at you Gnomes) can "tame" Mechanical pets (Don't lie, you built them, didn't 'tame' them), then Dwarves, who already are Earthen-kin, Shaman, well, then by golly, we can be Druids.


That's a hard sell, though.

Shamanism is about a connection to the elements, or at least agreements with them. Earthen and their descendants make some amount of sense because of that.

Druids, however, are about a connection to the Emerald Dream which isn't really elementally aligned in the same way. There's a tiny bit of crossover in their magic, but mostly they're distinct.

The problem comes in that if you don't actually play and read all the lore for both classes, they seem like different flavors of tree-huggers.
Any race can be any class, unless there is something physically stopping them. So the issue that should always be argued in discussions like these should be this.

1: Does it adds anything to the game, either technical-wise ore story-wise?

and/or

2: Does the class fit thematically, or could the race be developed to fit the class?

A great (and controversial) example is Undead Paladins.

Just to get this out of the way, Undead Paladins are completely possible. They're already in the game as The Risen. Undead can physically be Paladins. They may not be the most sane, but sanity is not a pre-requisite for a playable class.

It's nonsense to argue that Undead can't be Paladins, because the Lore shows us they can. So the next question would be if Paladins fit thematically with Forsaken.

And the answer to that is a resounding "No!". The Forsaken wouldn't have Paladins. And if they did, then they'd be a perverted sort that inverses the typical ideals most Paladins have. And that's not something I want.

If you want darker Paladins, bring OG Blood Knights back.
10/25/2017 05:56 AMPosted by Belandvia
Forsaken paladins don't exist? If a person was a paladin prior to the curse, it's not like they forgot their past life after the curse. Lillian Voss still remembered her father after her dealing with the curse. But if someone was a human paladin, now they're out of luck when they're forsaken?

Lore limitations suck, especially when lore is tossed around so freely these days.


There is a big reason for this one, paladins were immune to the plague so there are no forsaken paladins. Instead when a paladin was killed by the scourge and resurrected into undeath they became the second generation death knights.

Lore makes it a story which WoW is a game but one that tells a story and in large part is attributed to its success.
Ive been playing a game called divinity original sin 2. They have a couple different races. Human, Elf, Dwarf and Lizard.. They also have an undead race. The undead can be a human, elf, dwarf or lizard skeleton. That's how I imagined the undead of wow to be. They all look the same. Why wouldn't we have different skeletons by now? You'd think sylvanas's curse wouldn't just be restricted to humans. We should see skeletons from both factions and all races.
10/25/2017 06:35 AMPosted by Astanta
Why wouldn't we have different skeletons by now? You'd think sylvanas's curse wouldn't just be restricted to humans. We should see skeletons from both factions and all races.
if we ever get subraces i'd expect that to be the Forsaken one, but the Forsaken we can play as are specifically "the Forsaken of Lordaeron" and most of the people who died, and were raised and eventually became the Forsaken were humans, so we have only had human zombies to play as.
Been dying for a Human Shaman since I began playing back in early Lich King.

I sincerely hope that next expansion, classes are opened up a bit more.
With threats as serious and immediate as they have been (ie the Legion/Sargeras), I'm sure some Wildhammer Dwarves would've been more than happy to teach some Humans about Shamanism.

Druid is the only class that seems like it would have limitations (as it has prerequisites from the Emerald Dream), but other classes are pretty teachable.

If an Orc can sit down and have the patience to learn and study to become a Mage, I don't see why a Human can't become a Shaman.
10/25/2017 07:08 AMPosted by Tilly
If an Orc can sit down and have the patience to learn and study to become a Mage, I don't see why a Human can't become a Shaman.
and now i'm imagining a full grown orc sitting in a classroom furiously taking notes about magical equations and getting frustrated because his pencil is too small and the desks are too fragile, all the while the other races are snickering at him behind his back because he's the only orc in magic school designed for younger students.
10/25/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Nemestrïnus
10/25/2017 07:08 AMPosted by Tilly
If an Orc can sit down and have the patience to learn and study to become a Mage, I don't see why a Human can't become a Shaman.
and now i'm imagining a full grown orc sitting in a classroom furiously taking notes about magical equations and getting frustrated because his pencil is too small and the desks are too fragile, all the while the other races are snickering at him behind his back because he's the only orc in magic school designed for younger students.


Are you saying he's Billy Madison?
10/25/2017 05:56 AMPosted by Belandvia
Forsaken paladins don't exist?


Think about that one for a minute - a warrior infused with the Light and something for which the Light is pain - I'm pretty sure that one doesn't work.
10/25/2017 07:23 AMPosted by Wyleecoyote
10/25/2017 05:56 AMPosted by Belandvia
Forsaken paladins don't exist?


Think about that one for a minute - a warrior infused with the Light and something for which the Light is pain - I'm pretty sure that one doesn't work.
Forsaken Paladins do not exist, but Undead Paladins do, though all the ones we have seen are pretty much mind controlled by either a dreadlord or a high lich/lich king. meaning they have no free will of their own, and i bet most Forsaken would rather end their un-life than live in constant pain 24/7 while feeling everything wrong with their corpse of a body

Think about that one for a minute - a warrior infused with the Light and something for which the Light is pain - I'm pretty sure that one doesn't work.


Wasn't the leader of the Scarlet Crusade killed and resurrected by Balnazzar or something like that?
Okay so there are some cases where lore restrictions work and others where there is room for flexibility if Blizzard decides to expand the class/race roster later and that's fine.

For example, Draenei and Night Elf warlocks will never be a thing, for the simple reason that their races have seen complete and total destruction come from the Burning Legion, so they're not about to buddy up with some demons and wield the power of the fel.

Goblin Druids are another one. The goblins are opposed to nature in all its forms and will gladly clear out entire mountain ranges and fill in lakes rather than preserve anything. Yes they have shamans, but their access to shamanism comes from being able to bargain with the elemental spirits. There are no palms to grease with coin or favors to become a druid.

As the game moves forward we'll likely see more classes/race combinations but we'll never see 'all races can be all classes'.

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