How strong was a geared player?

Classic Discussion
11/29/2017 11:53 PMPosted by Sairia
11/29/2017 11:35 PMPosted by Ellilaine
This. The theorycrafters reverse-engineered the numbers behind the system back in vanilla days. They could probably whip it out for the current model pretty quickly as well.
No reason to, the game pretty much takes out all the theory crafting for you, I remember using excel calculators all the time, now you just go to icy veins and figure out what your best secondary stats are and stack those.


This is why awful itemization makes theory crafting fun.
11/29/2017 11:54 PMPosted by Koushi
This is why awful itemization makes theory crafting fun.
I wouldn't even call it awful, I would call it 'dynamic'

More stat options = more build variations, which is what WOW has been missing for years now, with gear, specs, and abilities homoginized for arena and raiding, there is no way to build your characters in interesting ways, like say, shockadin.
11/29/2017 05:24 PMPosted by Kolben


Protection will live a long time, but eventually die due to very low damage and mob respawns of all things, yeah it is that slow.


Playing a warrior tank, coming into MC for your first run you were litterally geared in dungeon blues before ZG was around. The first time I stepped inside MC I was sporting the draconian deflector and skullforge reaver with a mix and match of Valor plate and dark iron FR gear.

Was lucky enough to get the quel serrar from the old quest, slowly upgrading. Back then there was no +def on gear either (IIRC)
If I used all my cooldowns as a combat swords rogue (Evasion/Blade Flurry/Adrenaline Rush), I could easily take down large groups of non elite mobs.

Without cooldowns? Even in MC/BWL gear I could probably do maybe 2-3 comfortably depending on what type of mobs they are. Most of the time though its way more efficient to cc and take them 1 by 1.
I know that once I got Ash'rethul as a hunter, I put on a Twill set and went into AV and still globaled cloth wearers.
This was actually a really interesting part of classic.

Say you had your full dungeon set. Obviously t1 was your next goal. The difference in your t1 gear would be minor in stat changes. Sometimes you'd go from say 19 agility on your head piece (whatever shadowcraft was) to like 22 agility on your t1 piece. Often times, you'd lose stats by upgrading, but get some kind of benefit like 1% to crit or hit. You would have to really consider was your goal was, and stat prioritize accordingly. You'd suffer that case of wanting something new for your character to have, but even though it was a tier higher, it may not be better for your spec than what you've had for months. It would be a pain.

This is why you didn't have a MASSIVE advantage with gear in vanilla, you just had an advantage. Some classes desperately needed gear to scale up, while other classes gear was just icing on the cake.

In group pvp you would feel the torture if everyone on the other team was geared. In duels, 1v1 encounters, you could potentially out play them if you knew what you were doing.

These days, even if you know what you're doing but you're completely out geared, you are in trouble.
11/28/2017 11:59 AMPosted by Wicker
Skilled level 58s could beat geared 60s. The power creep was small in Vanilla.


This 100%.
11/28/2017 11:48 AMPosted by Axebreaker
Hey there, folks.

I played in Vanilla, but I didn't hit level cap and I never had gear better than a couple of blues and a Hurricane I spent all my gold on. I'm curious how strong a 'geared' character was.

For example, in Retail I have characters at the 850 ilevel who feel very strong. I can pull a half dozen at level mobs and not worry about dying. I have a tank around 900 who can pull a dozen elite mobs and chew through them without breaking a sweat.

If someone was in full MC gear, was that doable? Naxx40 gear?

I'm curious what the power gap was like in Vanilla, when it came to man vs. world.


Sure if you plan to clear deadmines or stockades then you should have no problem :)
Possibly just an aside to the original question: but a lot of people are comparing the iLvl differences between tiers across expansions. It's not really an exact analogue for Vanilla.

Gear wasn't anywhere near as streamlined as it is today. It had bad stats on it, wasted stats, weapon speed impacted choices, etc. As Blizzard continued through Vanilla and got better at itemisation, a not insignificant increase in power came from streamlining the stats. Have a look at some of the early dungeon blues compared to Naxx gear. All the Naxx gear had only relevant stats, and no wasted stat point allocation - no more spirit hanging or resists hanging around. The difference in power was greater, stat-wise, than the iLvl difference.

To illustrate how the power difference could also come from things other than iLvl, a hunterfunfact is that until they buffed Nerubian Slavemaker (drops from KT) to 3.2 speed, the best weapon for hunters in the game was Ashjre'thul (drops from Chromaggus). It was originally 3.0, and worse than Ashjre'thul. None of the ranged weapons from AQ40/20>Naxx (excluding NS) were better than Ashjre'thul despite higher iLvl.

Not really disagreeing with anyone, just wanted to point out that iLvl inflation in Vanilla isn't exactly analogous to other expansions.

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