Which Patch?

Classic Discussion
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Optimistic to hope for a consensus.

Ive little understanding of the various patches but with how low the difficulty already was, anything that raises it is mandatory for me.
Would prefer the natural patch progression with the major bugs being fixed of course.
11/27/2017 01:10 PMPosted by Felene
11/27/2017 02:59 AMPosted by Vincentiu
Starting in 1.1 would mean:

-Some classes would be useless for months.
-No PvP rewards.
-No PvP diminishing returns.
-No Battlegrounds.
-No weather effects.
-OP skills like the Paladin's Reckoning or the Rogue infinite stunlock.
-More extra work for the devs.
-You will have to patch your client 12 times.
-All of this just for something that is a one time thing, once we reach the final patch then what?

Start with 1.12, have the enemies hp and damage buffed, release content progressively, don't have catch up gear (like Dire Maul gear) available in the start. This is the best solution.


Okay so riddle me this.

What stops you from starting with gated progression, the old talents being updated with content, and BGs up?

You don't need a degree in game design (kek) to read the patch notes and tell what is a buff/balance change and what is a bug fix. Launch with bug fixes - something they already said they were working on.

Don't get me wrong, I play on private servers too. Which is why I'm 100% convinced these people just want to come in and stomp content as they're used to it and technically outleveling and outgearing it then talk about how great they are. I'm 99% sure this is a good portion of the reasoning behind the push for 1.12.

Did i mention "MC too harddddd" or "these patches will have bugs"? No? Why should we start with any of the other nine problems i mentioned just to fix them later?
11/27/2017 02:31 PMPosted by Vincentiu
11/27/2017 01:10 PMPosted by Felene
...

Okay so riddle me this.

What stops you from starting with gated progression, the old talents being updated with content, and BGs up?

You don't need a degree in game design (kek) to read the patch notes and tell what is a buff/balance change and what is a bug fix. Launch with bug fixes - something they already said they were working on.

Don't get me wrong, I play on private servers too. Which is why I'm 100% convinced these people just want to come in and stomp content as they're used to it and technically outleveling and outgearing it then talk about how great they are. I'm 99% sure this is a good portion of the reasoning behind the push for 1.12.

Did i mention "MC too harddddd" or "these patches will have bugs"? No? Why should we start with any of the other nine problems i mentioned just to fix them later?


This is so beyond asinine.

Why is patching a client bad?

Why is Blizzard taking their time bad?

Pally reckoning was a bug and unforeseen consequence at best. Release it fixed. Doesn't need to be 1.12.

Work for the people they are hiring to do the job? Deary me.

Weather effects. Just launch with it on release. What's stopping you? Was this in Vanilla? Yes. Does it affect gameplay? No. Launch with it. Same thing for cloak and helm toggle. Don't need to wait for it just launch with it.

1.12 doesn't magically contain new content that will unveil itself once we hit the end of the game. Your last point doesn't even make sense.

You want to sacrifice pretty much ALL of the gameplay of 2 years just to have your patch version that was intended for Naxx progression and trivializes everything else.

NoNoNoNo.
11/27/2017 02:50 PMPosted by Felene
Pally reckoning was a bug and unforeseen consequence at best. Release it fixed. Doesn't need to be 1.12.
Here is the problem, Reckoning was not a bug, that is how the skill worked, and that is merely an example of many things broken like the absence of diminishing returns. Are you going to cherry pick which things were "broken"? Are you going to allow classes that were useless at the beginning have their fixes? Then what you want is not a "1.1 patch" you want a "Frankenstein patch" wich is actually a good alternative.
If Blizzard starts with 1.12 then no one will have the chance to get the original Level 60 mounts that don't have armor on them
11/26/2017 11:51 PMPosted by Felene
Start much earlier. I don't want launch with 1.12 talents. Ideally, I'd like to start from the very beginning with the original talents released alongside the content patches they were intended to be used for so no content is unintentionally trivialized.

Things like Interface Options updates, Additional Mailboxes, Bug Fixes, Colorblind Mode, stuff like this goes in from the very beginning.

Stagger content like it was in Vanilla. That means no launch with Dire Maul or ZG active.

It's my understanding from Blizzcon 05 that dungeons like Strat/Scholo were intended and designed for 5 men and UBRS was designed for 10. If this is indeed the case then they should launch with these caps. Source: https://youtu.be/Ud9h8UpcC4E?t=12m9s

Monitor your playerbase's progression. When enough have cleared a content patch then we can move on to the next.

I like that idea, have a minimum amount of clears to unlock new patch content somewhat like war efforts but without a counter
I'm in the 1.13 camp. Patch progression implies that they will implement such things as the increased debuff limit and a lot of the catch up gear (such as the tier 0 and 0.5 sets) that made MC much more trivial than it was intended to be. Since Classic is now its own standalone game they should be attempting to give all the content a permanent level of difficulty for all to experience no matter when they decide to try it Classic.

Now when I say 1.13 what I mean is a patch that restores various mechanics and difficulties of all the difference facets of the game all within one patch. For example, when in MC the debuff limit should be at 8 and the threat mechanics while inside the instance should be as they were at launch. On the same token, when in AQ the debuff limit should be 16 with the newer threat mechanics that they added in later. (Note: I am not a programmer but I understand that what is being suggested here might not be possible or extremely difficult to pull off from a code perspective. I'm simply defining what I mean by a 1.13 patch.)

The main point here is that whatever Blizzard decides to put into the game, it should be added in at launch and not at some later date. The time at which the player begins playing the game should not affect his experience with the game, and as I see it the only way to do that is to implement a static patch where we can mix and match aspects of each patch and call it a day.

Edit: I realize now after rereading my post that it sounds like I am advocating that all raid content be released at launch. I am in total support for endgame content being released progressively, just not the items and extra debuffs that were added in afterwards that trivialized earlier content. As I've argued in other threads, it doesn't make sense to trivialize earlier content because unlike when Vanilla was live we are not inevitably progressing towards a new expansion with classic. Classic is (or at least it should be in my opinion) its own game that allows people to enjoy the grind of 2004-2006 Vanilla at whatever pace they can muster and not feel like the game is moving faster then they can consume it. Furthermore, this actually makes a lot of sense from a business standpoint because most people interested in vanilla are now in their late 20's to early 30's and most likely can't commit the kind of time they did to the game in 2004. The only thing that should be trivializing the earlier raids is gear from later tiers. I think this is actually very healthy because it gives the player a real sense of progression. Any other changes/additions should be left out permanently unless the raids were built around them.
It will likely be a roll out of patches like they did with some of the private servers, with some things that where later implemented being there at the get go, like weather effects and some boss encounters etc. But dungeons and raids need to be released in an appropriate sequence to a good effect when it comes to gear.

World pvp will also only work if BG's aren't easily accessible, like in earlier patches, as it forces pvp'ers to look into the world to kill.
11/27/2017 07:53 PMPosted by Yadomaru
If Blizzard starts with 1.12 then no one will have the chance to get the original Level 60 mounts that don't have armor on them


Those were butt ugly anyway. I like later models far better. Hope they make them in game. Not everything old>new

11/27/2017 01:29 PMPosted by Nelthene
Ive little understanding of the various patches but with how low the difficulty already was, anything that raises it is mandatory for me.


AQ and Naxx are hard regardles of patch. Dont worry about that.

11/27/2017 10:17 PMPosted by Clarivee
World pvp will also only work if BG's aren't easily accessible, like in earlier patches, as it forces pvp'ers to look into the world to kill.


There will be PvE realms you know. Try to look at it from that perspective.
Mix of 1.1-1.12 Patches features-wise/bug-fix wise.

Content unlocks progressively 1.1>1.12

I feel the 1.12 talents are the best batch personally, but we need to make sure that Raid Content isn't trivialized at release.

Molten Core should be a challenge at launch, and even when AQ40/Naxx are out later, there should be guilds still running MC/BWL.

I think the main thing that people want is NO non-vanilla changes (which I agree with)
1.12.1 Balance with 1.1 progression

It's a tried and true method that's been proven to be effective
11/27/2017 11:56 PMPosted by Hiltimilleon
1.12.1 Balance with 1.1 progression

It's a tried and true method that's been proven to be effective


I agree mostly from the standpoint that we need Talents/Balancing from the 1.12 Patch (still vanilla, so the game is Pure).

But things like Cross-realm BG's , new alterac valley, etc. need to be reverted to their earlier states.

Also raid content needs to be pre-nerf.

100% agree we need the progressive content unlocks however (Bg's , dungeons, raids,etc.)
11/27/2017 02:26 AMPosted by Nightrom
Personally, I'd like more of if we start in 1.0 for instance, then each year we gain a patch.


This might be the most dumb post I've read on the forums yet

Imagine 6 years of raiding MC before you even get to touch BWL
11/27/2017 07:53 PMPosted by Yadomaru
If Blizzard starts with 1.12 then no one will have the chance to get the original Level 60 mounts that don't have armor on them


Just release with 1.1 content and progress from there, giving people time to earn those mounts
11/27/2017 11:58 PMPosted by Frostchi
But things like Cross-realm BG's


Cross realm BGs are a good thing. They were added for a reason. People actually advocated on old forums for something like that to be implemented and for a good reason.
I mean, if it's all-or-nothing, I guess it has to be 1.12.1. I personally wouldn't mind an amalgum patch that cherry-picked the best things from each patch. I also wouldn't mind a progression starting at 1.1.
11/27/2017 10:11 PMPosted by Culinary
Now when I say 1.13 what I mean is a patch that restores various mechanics and difficulties of all the difference facets of the game all within one patch. For example, when in MC the debuff limit should be at 8 and the threat mechanics while inside the instance should be as they were at launch. On the same token, when in AQ the debuff limit should be 16 with the newer threat mechanics that they added in later. (Note: I am not a programmer but I understand that what is being suggested here might not be possible or extremely difficult to pull off from a code perspective. I'm simply defining what I mean by a 1.13 patch.)


I agree with this. If they have to go with a static patch, then I hope they can do it in this fashion to make it as realistic as experience as possible.
I'm willing to bet that Blizzard will not emulate any particular patch. But take bits and pieces of each that they feel will recreate the Vanilla experience. This also means that they may realize that raids may be far too easy as strategies and players were on average, more accessible and better. Hopefully they do something - it could be as simple as upping the # of hit points or damage done.

But any sort of catch up mechanic imo is bad.
11/28/2017 07:12 AMPosted by Xanthak
I'm willing to bet that Blizzard will not emulate any particular patch. But take bits and pieces of each that they feel will recreate the Vanilla experience. This also means that they may realize that raids may be far too easy as strategies and players were on average, more accessible and better. Hopefully they do something - it could be as simple as upping the # of hit points or damage done.

But any sort of catch up mechanic imo is bad.

Catch up mechanics were implemented for a simple reason. Only a small percentage of players really have the time for a full vanilla grind. So everything that was part of vanilla should be in vanilla. If its too easy - dunno go with 30 ppl in 40 man raids?

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