Free or Rebuy

Classic Discussion
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12/11/2017 10:08 AMPosted by Vickyvale
You say Blizzard isn't a welfare office, but what you are asking essentially IS just that, except for Retail players.

You want Classic players and other Retail players to subsidize your desire to play both games for no added cost. It is so crazy. Then, you have the gall to act like other people are trying to leech the system.
When I try to ask how your personal gaming desire would be paid for, you say you answered it, which you did not.

Such misdirection, I am beginning to believe you are just trolling.
As stated, you cannot know the future, you do not know what will happen.


No, I am not trying to leech, anything. I do not care what system they use, simply stating that the logical best case for blizzard on a money brought in front, is to bundle subs as a wow sub. Any other options has too high of cons, and issues that will arise, such as less money made, less players buying classic, more support tickets, more billing drama.

Now if Classic proves to take off in a large amount, then it may have its own sub system. However at launch, merged subs is a guarantee, the "devil you know" as they say.

"When I try to ask how your personal gaming desire would be paid for, you say you answered it, which you did not."

This didn't even make any sense, and I have no idea what you mean by that.

If its what you are asking, I am fine with any sub model, the 5 dollar classic sub, would be fine, a 15 dollar classic sub would be fine, merged subs would be fine, with me. I have stated that before, that doesn't mean, those are logical options, they are not, myself and others, have given concrete fact, why there will be merged subs. You want to ignore it, that is on you.

I am still waiting for 1 good reason to do 5 dollar subs, then to merge subs. 1 good reason in retaliation to blizzard as a business, how they can improve there profits and losses by doing it that way.
12/11/2017 09:25 AMPosted by Efreetia
Such a simple discussion blown hilariously out of proportion. Page after page of zero progress and brick wall understanding from certain people.

I want nothing to do with Legion/BfA. I want vanilla, and nothing else. So don't force us all to pay $15/month and go, "Hey guess what?! TWO for the price of ONE!!" They know perfectly well the majority who asked for this do not give a rat's !@# about current live. That would be deliberately greedy, incredibly lazy and a giant slap in the face to the hundreds of thousands who want this. Not to mention it wouldn't survive.

My hat in the ring says very simply - Make a sub for Classic, cheaper than the cost of live's sub. There is no new content, merely periodic maintenance and fixes - at maximum we might see a few other changes. As for an initial price, I have no idea.

If you want to play BfA, perhaps that fee rises to the default price? I am sure they will decide what is most reasonable and do it. That's just my idea. Don't expect it to be free, else prepare to be laughed at.


Except there isnt hundreds of thousands, there is 100k, 200k at most.

Welcome to real life, where the majority rules, and you are the minority, by a long shot.

You are the ones, that dont seem to get it. Because you dont want to get it, because the snowflake complex has taken over and common sense has left the building.

Also please, stop with the apocalypse syndrome.

Every single, one of these classic threads i see "Or classic will fail", and it makes me wonder why blizz is even making this. We need the complainers to leave, not more doom and gloom, world is coming to an end players.

Newsflash, the world isnt ending, and even if it is 60 dollars, even if it is merged subs, people will buy it, the majority will buy it, they will play it. You may not, but from what i have seen of your world ending attitude that is probably for the better.

A handful of loudmouths, does not a majority make.
12/11/2017 10:15 AMPosted by Dæmônic
12/11/2017 10:08 AMPosted by Vickyvale
You say Blizzard isn't a welfare office, but what you are asking essentially IS just that, except for Retail players.

You want Classic players and other Retail players to subsidize your desire to play both games for no added cost. It is so crazy. Then, you have the gall to act like other people are trying to leech the system.
When I try to ask how your personal gaming desire would be paid for, you say you answered it, which you did not.

Such misdirection, I am beginning to believe you are just trolling.
As stated, you cannot know the future, you do not know what will happen.


No, I am not trying to leech, anything. I do not care what system they use, simply stating that the logical best case for blizzard on a money brought in front, is to bundle subs as a wow sub. Any other options has too high of cons, and issues that will arise, such as less money made, less players buying classic, more support tickets, more billing drama.

Now if Classic proves to take off in a large amount, then it may have its own sub system. However at launch, merged subs is a guarantee, the "devil you know" as they say.

"When I try to ask how your personal gaming desire would be paid for, you say you answered it, which you did not."

This didn't even make any sense, and I have no idea what you mean by that.

If its what you are asking, I am fine with any sub model, the 5 dollar classic sub, would be fine, a 15 dollar classic sub would be fine, merged subs would be fine, with me. I have stated that before, that doesn't mean, those are logical options, they are not, myself and others, have given concrete fact, why there will be merged subs. You want to ignore it, that is on you.

I am still waiting for 1 good reason to do 5 dollar subs, then to merge subs. 1 good reason in retaliation to blizzard as a business, how they can improve there profits and losses by doing it that way.


For me it's the idea of attracting new players because right now the current WoW isn't drawing any the numbers showed a decrease in subs before they stopped releasing them which let's be honest here only means it's getting worse. The way you talk about it implies the current edition has some big pull for players right now when that simply isn't true because if it was I bet Classic wouldn't be coming. To me Vanilla WoW has less content and is an older game so it would be a lot cheaper to maintain but it can also be a solid "demo" version if you will to get people interested in the main game. Nobody is going to spend 60 dollars for Classic and then another 60 for the live version within a month or even two most people don't have that kind of money to throw around these days. The big thing that has ever held people back from even trying WoW is its expensive starting fee. but then here comes Classic which has every reason to be cheaper to get somebody who may not be interested to try it out. If they end up liking it great you now have somebody paying $5 a month and a potential $15 if they decide to move to legion which is a lot better than just getting nothing.

If I was to make an honest feeling about what's going to happen it's definitely the shared sub, I just feel it could do really well if they used it as a demo to encourage the main game. I got to say though if you add buying level 60 characters, MTX, and WoW tokens to classic I can tell you right now you will have killed it before it even started because people have shown they will just leave and play on a private server. The most I feel you can get away with putting in Classic is the WoW tokens to combat the gold farmers but other than that it would be too much of a blow to the way Classic is supposed to be.
I hope it has a base price and subscription.
12/11/2017 10:40 AMPosted by Matcauthon
I hope it has a base price and subscription.


Same. I think of it like a cover charge. It'll keep out the riff raff.
Will happily fork over cash if they get this right...
12/08/2017 06:52 AMPosted by Dinoso
So is this free or are these money hungry titans going to recharge us for expansion we already bought ?

My guess is we have to buy since this is a last effort cash grab on a dying game.

Guess this will show what blizz thinks of there playerbase. We will pay they know we are retarded mouth breathers because they are selling reskins of classes we already have now next expansion but with different names

Are you a dwarf nah I’m a dark iron dwarf can’t you tell ? No your gear is coving everything on you


No, they are going to develop a product completely free of charge, at a loss. All the investors are happy about it. If you're nice enough, they may even pay you to play.
12/08/2017 06:52 AMPosted by Dinoso
So is this free or are these money hungry titans going to recharge us for expansion we already bought ?

My guess is we have to buy since this is a last effort cash grab on a dying game.

Guess this will show what blizz thinks of there playerbase. We will pay they know we are retarded mouth breathers because they are selling reskins of classes we already have now next expansion but with different names

Are you a dwarf nah I’m a dark iron dwarf can’t you tell ? No your gear is coving everything on you


Doesn't even matter to me, I will play if I have to buy it again and pay another sub if necessary.
12/11/2017 10:36 AMPosted by Avarond
<span class="truncated">...</span>

No, I am not trying to leech, anything. I do not care what system they use, simply stating that the logical best case for blizzard on a money brought in front, is to bundle subs as a wow sub. Any other options has too high of cons, and issues that will arise, such as less money made, less players buying classic, more support tickets, more billing drama.

Now if Classic proves to take off in a large amount, then it may have its own sub system. However at launch, merged subs is a guarantee, the "devil you know" as they say.

"When I try to ask how your personal gaming desire would be paid for, you say you answered it, which you did not."

This didn't even make any sense, and I have no idea what you mean by that.

If its what you are asking, I am fine with any sub model, the 5 dollar classic sub, would be fine, a 15 dollar classic sub would be fine, merged subs would be fine, with me. I have stated that before, that doesn't mean, those are logical options, they are not, myself and others, have given concrete fact, why there will be merged subs. You want to ignore it, that is on you.

I am still waiting for 1 good reason to do 5 dollar subs, then to merge subs. 1 good reason in retaliation to blizzard as a business, how they can improve there profits and losses by doing it that way.


For me it's the idea of attracting new players because right now the current WoW isn't drawing any the numbers showed a decrease in subs before they stopped releasing them which let's be honest here only means it's getting worse. The way you talk about it implies the current edition has some big pull for players right now when that simply isn't true because if it was I bet Classic wouldn't be coming. To me Vanilla WoW has less content and is an older game so it would be a lot cheaper to maintain but it can also be a solid "demo" version if you will to get people interested in the main game. Nobody is going to spend 60 dollars for Classic and then another 60 for the live version within a month or even two most people don't have that kind of money to throw around these days. The big thing that has ever held people back from even trying WoW is its expensive starting fee. but then here comes Classic which has every reason to be cheaper to get somebody who may not be interested to try it out. If they end up liking it great you now have somebody paying $5 a month and a potential $15 if they decide to move to legion which is a lot better than just getting nothing.

If I was to make an honest feeling about what's going to happen it's definitely the shared sub, I just feel it could do really well if they used it as a demo to encourage the main game. I got to say though if you add buying level 60 characters, MTX, and WoW tokens to classic I can tell you right now you will have killed it before it even started because people have shown they will just leave and play on a private server. The most I feel you can get away with putting in Classic is the WoW tokens to combat the gold farmers but other than that it would be too much of a blow to the way Classic is supposed to be.


Well that is what I am saying too, there will be a shared sub .

There will 100% be buying level 60s, I know alot of people wont like that, I too miss the days when work paid off in MMOs, but those days are over and the new generations, and even ours has grown accustomed to the new reality.

That is what Im, saying, a lot the posts I see, they do not want vanilla back, they want 2004 back, and the latter just isn't going to happen.

It will crop up with other stuff as well, if LFG isnt added, then LFG chat will be filled with spam, people want Sword Art Online, the days of guilds and community didnt die because of changes Blizz made, it did because changes the world has made.

Anyone that plays other MMOs, knows this, everyone says wow broke this, they didn't. Wow didn't change first, people did, and the people will not change back. Anyone who thinks that Classic, will be like 2004 all over, that is simply not going to happen, without a time machine.

It also isnt WoW that is bleeding subs and not getting new ones, it is the entire Genre. Look around all the MMOs are bleeding hard, and new MMOs have less less and at the start, and are coming further and further apart.

Just like with Forums, Us, the MMOers, that are in our 30-40s, that like forums, guilds, community, sat in Vent all day chatting and enjoy each other, We are a dying breed. All of that, that we loved and missed, has died and dies more everyday, not just in WoW in the world, just as our parents hobbys and lives in the world changed and died.

It is the cycle of life, and change sucks, and memories of good ole days, are just that, memories, they will never be more, there is no getting those days back.
@Daemonic

Old School Runescape is gaining subs, in fact they just hit the highest peak they ever had on it so it's not impossible to recover. Yes we're getting older and that's true which is why it should be more important now than ever to try and get new players in to replace the ones who simply grew up and have responsibilities. Saying it's our generation that wants buying characters is a bit of a lie because it's the companies shoving it down our throats and P2W in games is becoming a serious topic now so clearly people are getting fed up. The whole point of Classic is to go back to a version of WoW before it got all bloated with things people didn't like. Who is asking for the ability to buy max level characters because I sure haven't seen any and the people who do ask for them shouldn't even be listened to because they aren't worth much money in the long run. People who will buy a character most likely won't stick around very long because they just essentially skipped most of the content especially in Vanilla.

The playerbase has changed to a degree, but it's not us saying we want to buy max level characters that's just greed coming from the higher ups.
I still remember all the people saying "We'd all totally be willing to pay for classic servers".

Meanwhile, some of the bigger classic servers were saying that they were having trouble keeping the servers running because they couldn't afford it because nobody was donating.

And now we're at the point where people are essentially demanding that Blizzard releases them for free, and that they're not willing to pay for the game, or for a sub, or for anything like that.

No wonder Blizzard didn't want to make them.
12/11/2017 01:51 PMPosted by Blasius
I still remember all the people saying "We'd all totally be willing to pay for classic servers".

Meanwhile, some of the bigger classic servers were saying that they were having trouble keeping the servers running because they couldn't afford it because nobody was donating.

And now we're at the point where people are essentially demanding that Blizzard releases them for free, and that they're not willing to pay for the game, or for a sub, or for anything like that.

No wonder Blizzard didn't want to make them.


It's a bit different to donate to a private server especially when it can be shut down at any moment and isn't official. People would feel a lot better about it when the game is actually safe and stable and run by the actual owners.
12/11/2017 01:55 PMPosted by Avarond
12/11/2017 01:51 PMPosted by Blasius
I still remember all the people saying "We'd all totally be willing to pay for classic servers".

Meanwhile, some of the bigger classic servers were saying that they were having trouble keeping the servers running because they couldn't afford it because nobody was donating.

And now we're at the point where people are essentially demanding that Blizzard releases them for free, and that they're not willing to pay for the game, or for a sub, or for anything like that.

No wonder Blizzard didn't want to make them.


It's a bit different to donate to a private server especially when it can be shut down at any moment and isn't official. People would feel a lot better about it when the game is actually safe and stable and run by the actual owners.


Have you read any of the threads in this sub forum?

Or even this one lmfao.

Every other post "if it isn't free I'll go back to private greedy Blizz I'd rather steal than play legit"
12/11/2017 01:58 PMPosted by Dæmônic
12/11/2017 01:55 PMPosted by Avarond
...

It's a bit different to donate to a private server especially when it can be shut down at any moment and isn't official. People would feel a lot better about it when the game is actually safe and stable and run by the actual owners.


Have you read any of the threads in this sub forum?

Or even this one lmfao.

Every other post "if it isn't free I'll go back to private greedy Blizz I'd rather steal than play legit"


Most people I see who say that tend to be talking about having to buy the full expansion again even if they already bought it back in the day so honestly I don't know what to say about that I'm staying out of that debate because I don't really have a place in it.
12/11/2017 10:02 AMPosted by Dæmônic
All I need to see "Subs are for future content" is all I need to read. Blizzard is a business, their goal is to make money. Subs make money. Stop thinking Blizz is a DES office, welfare doesn't exist here.

Subs and Expansions in your light are putting the chicken before the egg. Subs dont pay for expansions, expansions are made to keep people subbed. Subs is where blizzards profits come from.

Vanilla was easy we can agree there.


There are MMOs out there that survive very well without subs. Look at Guild Wars 2. Your argument is basically that since current WoW has a sub, Classic should have a sub as well. Weak argument.

It's not about welfare. Classic WoW is going to be a shell of modern WoW and Guild Wars 2 in terms of available content (with no new content coming in, ever) and complexity, so there's no reason for it to have a subscription.

I imagine they are going to try and push subs, as they will want to squeeze out as much as they can from us, but it's really not necessary for Classic. I hope you realize that every video game out there, especially Steam games, that has online multiplayer requires cost and maintenance to keep servers online. How many Steam games require subscriptions? Classic isn't a new MMO, it's the revival of an old build that will be seeing no new content. Subs are not necessary.
If you own Legion, you have ultimately paid for classic. They are not going to charge people who are already paying a sub right now. They ARE going to charge people who have never played the game ever. They will be ultimately buying the game for the first time. This is the only business model that will be passable. Anything else is a lie and not happening.
12/11/2017 01:42 PMPosted by Avarond
@Daemonic

Old School Runescape is gaining subs, in fact they just hit the highest peak they ever had on it so it's not impossible to recover. Yes we're getting older and that's true which is why it should be more important now than ever to try and get new players in to replace the ones who simply grew up and have responsibilities. Saying it's our generation that wants buying characters is a bit of a lie because it's the companies shoving it down our throats and P2W in games is becoming a serious topic now so clearly people are getting fed up. The whole point of Classic is to go back to a version of WoW before it got all bloated with things people didn't like. Who is asking for the ability to buy max level characters because I sure haven't seen any and the people who do ask for them shouldn't even be listened to because they aren't worth much money in the long run. People who will buy a character most likely won't stick around very long because they just essentially skipped most of the content especially in Vanilla.

The playerbase has changed to a degree, but it's not us saying we want to buy max level characters that's just greed coming from the higher ups.


It's not our generation, it's the new one that wants P2W.

Yes there is complaint threads, however people are still buying, and that's why they keep shoving it down our throats. Cannot blame the game companies, the players have made it clear they will buy, that show they want it.

Most the time the forums should be taken for a grain, as usually the loudest ones are the complainers.
Something is worth only what someone else is willing to pay. If Blizzard starts gouging people, they will eventually stop paying. Profits are not the only consideration for companies, if you alienate your customer, they will get their entertainment elsewhere.

I think that what I proposed is a reasonable expectation to have for Classic, I am not asking for a free ride. If they start adding microtransactions to a game that people have an emotional connection to, be prepared for some ugliness.

You can say whatever you like Dæmônic, and pretend like it is gospel, but that does not make it so. And it would be silly for me to just throw my hands up without a fight just because of your internet assertions of how "right" you are.
12/11/2017 03:29 PMPosted by Dæmônic
12/11/2017 01:42 PMPosted by Avarond
@Daemonic

Old School Runescape is gaining subs, in fact they just hit the highest peak they ever had on it so it's not impossible to recover. Yes we're getting older and that's true which is why it should be more important now than ever to try and get new players in to replace the ones who simply grew up and have responsibilities. Saying it's our generation that wants buying characters is a bit of a lie because it's the companies shoving it down our throats and P2W in games is becoming a serious topic now so clearly people are getting fed up. The whole point of Classic is to go back to a version of WoW before it got all bloated with things people didn't like. Who is asking for the ability to buy max level characters because I sure haven't seen any and the people who do ask for them shouldn't even be listened to because they aren't worth much money in the long run. People who will buy a character most likely won't stick around very long because they just essentially skipped most of the content especially in Vanilla.

The playerbase has changed to a degree, but it's not us saying we want to buy max level characters that's just greed coming from the higher ups.


It's not our generation, it's the new one that wants P2W.

Yes there is complaint threads, however people are still buying, and that's why they keep shoving it down our throats. Cannot blame the game companies, the players have made it clear they will buy, that show they want it.

Most the time the forums should be taken for a grain, as usually the loudest ones are the complainers.


That's not entirely true Blizzard is enabling it so they are just as liable for it as the consumer is because for all you know it could be a whale who simply has no control. There isn't any real demand to show because it only happens when the companies want to make more money even after a purchase (in Blizzards case a purchase, membership, and still want more so they're triple dipping) off the people who have no self control or have no real interest in the actual game and wish to just skip content which is not something that should be supported. Sure it may seem all fine and dandy until it starts to drive people away because it's an ugly practice and you will pay for it in members.

You can't look me in the eye and tell me people didn't quit when they started charging $60 for lvl 100 characters. The amount of members is dropping and part of it is because of stuff like this so why would you want to completely sour the release of Vanilla by having this in it when people want the old fashioned gameplay? Don't mean to sound like a purist here but Vanilla is Vanilla and buying a max character is not Vanilla in any shape or form if anything it's the complete opposite because it's supposed to be about hard work. Legion is already there if people want that stuff and if OSRS was able to flourish then I have no doubt in my mind that Classic will do well without them especially since this is the biggest MMO on the market.
12/11/2017 02:55 PMPosted by Xerash
12/11/2017 10:02 AMPosted by Dæmônic
All I need to see "Subs are for future content" is all I need to read. Blizzard is a business, their goal is to make money. Subs make money. Stop thinking Blizz is a DES office, welfare doesn't exist here.

Subs and Expansions in your light are putting the chicken before the egg. Subs dont pay for expansions, expansions are made to keep people subbed. Subs is where blizzards profits come from.

Vanilla was easy we can agree there.


There are MMOs out there that survive very well without subs. Look at Guild Wars 2. Your argument is basically that since current WoW has a sub, Classic should have a sub as well. Weak argument.

It's not about welfare. Classic WoW is going to be a shell of modern WoW and Guild Wars 2 in terms of available content (with no new content coming in, ever) and complexity, so there's no reason for it to have a subscription.

I imagine they are going to try and push subs, as they will want to squeeze out as much as they can from us, but it's really not necessary for Classic. I hope you realize that every video game out there, especially Steam games, that has online multiplayer requires cost and maintenance to keep servers online. How many Steam games require subscriptions? Classic isn't a new MMO, it's the revival of an old build that will be seeing no new content. Subs are not necessary.


Guild wars 2 once again, has a severely intrusive, and limited item based cash shop. On top of serious amounts of gambling loot boxes.

Me and 3 friends checked out GW2 for a few months, just recenently. Between the 3 of us, we spent around 6-7k dollars, in the matter of 3 months.

Granted that was as new players, who needed gear, and the majority of our spending went to that. Still, that is how GWs makes money.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

It's not our generation, it's the new one that wants P2W.

Yes there is complaint threads, however people are still buying, and that's why they keep shoving it down our throats. Cannot blame the game companies, the players have made it clear they will buy, that show they want it.

Most the time the forums should be taken for a grain, as usually the loudest ones are the complainers.


That's not entirely true Blizzard is enabling it so they are just as liable for it as the consumer is because for all you know it could be a whale who simply has no control. There isn't any real demand to show because it only happens when the companies want to make more money even after a purchase (in Blizzards case a purchase, membership, and still want more so they're triple dipping) off the people who have no self control or have no real interest in the actual game and wish to just skip content which is not something that should be supported. Sure it may seem all fine and dandy until it starts to drive people away because it's an ugly practice and you will pay for it in members.

You can't look me in the eye and tell me people didn't quit when they started charging $60 for lvl 100 characters. The amount of members is dropping and part of it is because of stuff like this so why would you want to completely sour the release of Vanilla by having this in it when people want the old fashioned gameplay? Don't mean to sound like a purist here but Vanilla is Vanilla and buying a max character is not Vanilla in any shape or form if anything it's the complete opposite because it's supposed to be about hard work. Legion is already there if people want that stuff and if OSRS was able to flourish then I have no doubt in my mind that Classic will do well without them especially since this is the biggest MMO on the market.


Here's the things here.

1. Blizzard did hold out a very very long time, they were like the last MMO to start offering g that kind of stuff.

2. You say people that don't want to play the game, leveling to max isn't the game for alot of people, that is a chore, that they don't want to do, myself included.

3. People that leave games, don't to the ability to buy gold, or boost characters, need to grow up. It doesn't affect them in the slightest, that I get boosted and don't have to level.

That's really where this entire thing lies. It doesn't affect you, if others spend money, so don't worry about it.

The sad reality, is those people cannot afford to spend money on a game, and that is why they spaz when people buy something they can't.

Or they fall in the other camp of wanting to force there gameplay on others. I'm glad you find leveling fun in MMOs, so you do that. I do not find leveling fun, have limited time to do the things I do want, so I will spend real money to get around those things and back to what I do want to be doing.

Not everyone plays this game or any game for the same reason as you. They don't like the same things as you, and shouldn't be forced into your cookie cutter this is what the game should be.

It's a profit for Blizz so it will continue, you say loseing subs, ya ones that are against spending money, 1 whale sub, is worth 10x a normal one. As they will spend alot more, enough to pad profits for people that won't, that is how the F2P/B2P industry survives.

Just like above in GW2, yes no sub required. How people like me, will come on and see, okay legendary weapons and full set of ascended gear, will take a year of farming to obtain, but I can swipe 1000 and have it all now, and play with everyone else.

That's what I did, now that isn't p2w as most the player base has that gear, it was pay to cacth up. Once that was done, I bought costumes, Dyes, Skins, permanent tools for multiple toons, maxxed out my inventory, in bank/bags/shared slots.

I bought things that pretty everyone else did as well, the difference I did it in a very short time, where I can tell you the total was 2 thousand dollars. And alot of that stuff can only be bought with gems, though gems can be bought with gold. Gold which, if you are employed at all, your much better just buying, because the conversion ratio has you making 2 dollars worth of gold per hour.

Some people like to farm, that's fine, I don't. I'd rather swipe and play the game the way I want, with the time I have.

And that is exactly what the "I want it free" people to need understand, no game is free. They sit in WoW complaining they want the game free, not really understanding that free games, you in time have to spend alot more money.

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