On the topic of balance

Classic Discussion
If you want to say that you being excluded by guilds chasing world firsts is enough to warrant changes I guess melee will now unanimously need love thanks to world first coven having exactly zero melee.
Nothing but locks, boomkins, shadow priests, and 2 hunters.

And that should just illustrate how stupid using world first guilds as a bar is.
12/06/2017 01:55 AMPosted by Matcauthon
thanks to world first coven having exactly zero melee.

coven? is that some sort of legion raid? i dont remember anything called coven from vanilla WoW
How many identical threads do you need to post every day?
Nice strawman OP.

I'd settle for being accepted by what a vast majority of what I consider "decent" raiding guild are: pseudo elitists that don't have the time or desire to dedicate towards chasing world firsts.

They might not have the same skill, time, etc, but they still adhere to the meta and expect everyone they roll with to. You know, stereotypical video game players.

There's always someone like OP screaming "if you're not the best, why does it matter!" in every game as he rolls something retarded like ADC kayle in LoL, or tries to get kills as whoever a support person is in overwatch. That's not the point. The point is you're going against the meta, which exists for a reason, and expecting the community to be okay with it is asinine.

I'd much rather just change the meta so I don't have to fight the community at large while still getting to do what I want.
I think it was an attempt to lob them together into a group or an occult society...

If no changes are made, the world firsts have already been done. I doubt the first guilds to finish certain classic raids will be awarded world firsts. Probably will bevserver firsts though, as the servers will be new. FYI several top guilds ran hybrid classes.
Ah the obligatory balance post of the day. At least this is not asking for new balance.

Seriously tho. You would think half the pop is going to roll hybrids as much as this is brought up.

I'm leaning towards a feral Druid now that I've read all this crap tho. I like a challenge....I know I'll find a spot because I'll make my own...
2/10
12/06/2017 08:40 AMPosted by Akaidian
Nice strawman OP.

I'd settle for being accepted by what a vast majority of what I consider "decent" raiding guild are: pseudo elitists that don't have the time or desire to dedicate towards chasing world firsts.

They might not have the same skill, time, etc, but they still adhere to the meta and expect everyone they roll with to. You know, stereotypical video game players.

There's always someone like OP screaming "if you're not the best, why does it matter!" in every game as he rolls something retarded like ADC kayle in LoL, or tries to get kills as whoever a support person is in overwatch. That's not the point. The point is you're going against the meta, which exists for a reason, and expecting the community to be okay with it is asinine.

I'd much rather just change the meta so I don't have to fight the community at large while still getting to do what I want.


and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?
This forum is in need of serious moderation.
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?


Even if you already had one ret? I don't believe it.

Besides that, I want viable enough to be happily accepted in everyones eyes, not just a few guilds willing to make the sacrifice like yours. Let me put it like this: I don't want people to have to have an open mind. I want to be part of the meta where close-minded individuals are accepting.
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?

ill remind you that paladins can cast exorcism and holy wrath
but they don't get to meaningfully cast it in any other raid except kazzak, as far as I know
12/06/2017 02:29 PMPosted by Tarregor
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?

ill remind you that paladins can cast exorcism and holy wrath
but they don't get to meaningfully cast it in any other raid except kazzak, as far as I know


And?

We took 2-3 ret specced paladins every raid from the day we first set foot into Onyxia's lair until we stopped a bit over a year later staring at the ugly corpse of Grobulus. It wasn't just Naxx where guilds could progress with ret specced paladins that knew how to play...
12/06/2017 08:40 AMPosted by Akaidian
Nice strawman OP.

I'd settle for being accepted by what a vast majority of what I consider "decent" raiding guild are: pseudo elitists that don't have the time or desire to dedicate towards chasing world firsts.

They might not have the same skill, time, etc, but they still adhere to the meta and expect everyone they roll with to. You know, stereotypical video game players.

There's always someone like OP screaming "if you're not the best, why does it matter!" in every game as he rolls something retarded like ADC kayle in LoL, or tries to get kills as whoever a support person is in overwatch. That's not the point. The point is you're going against the meta, which exists for a reason, and expecting the community to be okay with it is asinine.

I'd much rather just change the meta so I don't have to fight the community at large while still getting to do what I want.


How about your do a little research on your class of choice and stop complaining.

You don't know what you're talking about, you do not understand the intricacy of playing a hybrid in Vanilla, and you know nothing about correct stat allocation or even the most basic things about your class abilities or even remotely how to use them.

TL;DR: LEARN TO PLAY.
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?


Same with my guild, we had 2 Ret paladin and they did quite a lot of DPS, that dude has no idea how to play and QQ's because its not as easy as pressing 111111111111111 like he thinks it should be.

He brings up Fury warriors doing 1500 DPS (when its really 1350), and then fails to realize that DPS is because of every single outside world buff + consumables.

He also fails to realize that a Retribution paladin can do 1200 to 1300 DPS if he utilizes the same insane buff stacking. Instead QQ's because he thinks that his damage should be good when he's got T1, T2, T3 Armor equipped when all 3 of those sets are made for HEALERS.

He also fails to realize every single Fury warrior, Feral Druid, Hunter, Ret paladin, Enhance Shaman that gave a damn about his DPS was wearing a lot of leather.

And that every single Boomkin and Elemental that gave a damn about his DPS was wearing a lot of cloth.
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ill remind you that paladins can cast exorcism and holy wrath
but they don't get to meaningfully cast it in any other raid except kazzak, as far as I know


And?

We took 2-3 ret specced paladins every raid from the day we first set foot into Onyxia's lair until we stopped a bit over a year later staring at the ugly corpse of Grobulus. It wasn't just Naxx where guilds could progress with ret specced paladins that knew how to play...

ill also point out that the PvE metagame is not defined by the players to a meaningful extent; it is defined by the game itself
the PvP metagame, however is defined by both the game itself and those who play it

you could take ret paladins to your raids, but you'd be remarkably outperformed by raids that didn't, at least when you weren't going naxx or kazzak

I'm not talking about server-firsts or world-firsts, as those are moreso dependent upon the skill of the raid's members and the leadership, but about how fast you can clear the raid without doing stuff like splitting up the raid in MC so you can kill magmadar while simultaneously advancing towards golemagg, and maybe even in such cases too

if everyone was equally skilled and capable and the leadership was always a different clone of the same guy and etc., then raids with hybrid dps would be outperformed by raids without hybrid dps, not counting dps warriors and maybe a shadow priest because hybrid healer+pure dps is better than hybrid dps+pure healer AND than hybrid dps+hybrid healer
12/06/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Akaidian
Besides that, I want viable enough to be happily accepted in everyones eyes, not just a few guilds willing to make the sacrifice like yours.


DUDE.. if you weren't bad people would happily take you. Instead of actually learning to play you just complain about your inability to play your class correctly.

My guild had 2 ret paladin because they bring the buffs we need and want. Their DPS is very competitive too.

It was NEVER the class, it was always you.
12/06/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Akaidian
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?


Even if you already had one ret? I don't believe it.

Besides that, I want viable enough to be happily accepted in everyones eyes, not just a few guilds willing to make the sacrifice like yours. Let me put it like this: I don't want people to have to have an open mind. I want to be part of the meta where close-minded individuals are accepting.


The only people who weren't accepting were idiots, top end guild and the close minded .

The top end also didn't take many pure specs and why would you want to raid with idiots and the close minded?

If you used your tool kit, played your class well, my guild would have brought you.

And apparently many others agree
balance is legion go subscribe and play and dont contaminate your QoL with my vanilla
12/06/2017 10:03 AMPosted by Akaidian
12/06/2017 09:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
and yet my guild would have taken you if you were good. we had a ret paladin. and were in naxx. how much more viable do you want?


Even if you already had one ret? I don't believe it.

Besides that, I want viable enough to be happily accepted in everyones eyes, not just a few guilds willing to make the sacrifice like yours. Let me put it like this: I don't want people to have to have an open mind. I want to be part of the meta where close-minded individuals are accepting.


Just dont play Classic. Seems it is not what you want

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