It's 2017, not 2005

Classic Discussion
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and just so you know i give 0 flummery about what date it is. im going to play what game and what version i damn well please simply because i can and its a free country. dont like it, talk to the tissue paper.


Your input is ever so valuable, I enjoyed the part where you contributed to the conversation.
12/08/2017 08:54 AMPosted by Matcauthon
as has been pointed out, there is pvp implications at stake here. you just refuse to accept it


The argument is valid, I never denied that, I simply counter argued that it's not really relevant to anyone's enjoyment of the game. I'm not speaking from authority here, it's just my point of view.
Im open to discussing almost anything, however swaying me to changes will be tough. I have watched my beloved hunter class go from being so much fun with its vast toolkit and versatile play style to the steaming pile of stationary poo that it is now, all in the name of making change just because. So yes, any change I will be skeptical of and will need definite proof it will not effect anything down the road as that is where the problems all once began.

I realize the same mistakes may not be made, but once the door is open and blizzards past track record its hard to be certain they wont again. Trust is thin for many of us when it comes to blizzards "decision making" A lot of the changes being discussed will effect some more than others due to how they play. That's why I think extensive ptr time is going to be needed.
12/08/2017 08:56 AMPosted by Matcauthon
you know you can only loot 1 mob at a time. you know you are on a pvp server. you know you can be ganked at any time.
if you choose to not loot, and someone makes you pay for it, who is at fault?


The odds of you being ganked while looting is so minuscule. Most (if not all) ganking happens when you are afk, travelling or fighting mobs. Looting is a non-factor imo.

Edit: Why wait for someone to loot to gank instead of ganking when they are outnumbered?
12/08/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Magikcool
I have watched my beloved hunter class go from being so much fun with its vast toolkit and versatile play style to the steaming pile of stationary poo that it is now


I am also personally looking foward to leveling a hunter in Classic, the good days of taming rare pets, feeding them and making sure they are happy, it was such good gameplay!
12/08/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Magikcool
I realize the same mistakes may not be made, but once the door is open and blizzards past track record its hard to be certain they wont again. Trust is thin for many of us when it comes to blizzards "decision making" A lot of the changes being discussed will effect some more than others due to how they play. That's why I think extensive ptr time is going to be needed.


Again totally in agreement. As I've stated before, I really want the discussion to be about making Classic WoW the best experience that it can be. Not about crying to blizz for changes or no changes because my feelings...

They (Blizzard) said they want to hear the conversation and they will see what the community wants/needs. This is where the value in having these discussions are.
I hope blizzard understand the difficult situation we are in. The patches are so different that Blizzard has to find a way to merge them into one(so that we don't have bugs or stupid mechanics of the past that were fixed). Then they need to unroll the content gradually.

It's a lot of work because they have to merge everything and create new(not something that wasn't there) patches, but that's the best option for them...
12/08/2017 09:26 AMPosted by Ravenblast
12/08/2017 09:13 AMPosted by Magikcool
I realize the same mistakes may not be made, but once the door is open and blizzards past track record its hard to be certain they wont again. Trust is thin for many of us when it comes to blizzards "decision making" A lot of the changes being discussed will effect some more than others due to how they play. That's why I think extensive ptr time is going to be needed.


Again totally in agreement. As I've stated before, I really want the discussion to be about making Classic WoW the best experience that it can be. Not about crying to blizz for changes or no changes because my feelings...

They (Blizzard) said they want to hear the conversation and they will see what the community wants/needs. This is where the value in having these discussions are.


I think you may be misinterpreting what Blizzard said. The devs have so far only asked questions regarding what to implement from Vanilla's two year life span. They have further doubled down and explicitly said "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges." I think these conversations are okay to have, but I don't think it's what Blizzard is looking for.
12/08/2017 09:32 AMPosted by Holylr
I hope blizzard understand the difficult situation we are in. The patches are so different that Blizzard has to find a way to merge them into one(so that we don't have bugs or stupid mechanics of the past that were fixed). Then they need to unroll the content gradually.

It's a lot of work because they have to merge everything and create new(not something that wasn't there) patches, but that's the best option for them...


Exactly. This is one of the first things J Allen Brack mentioned. This discussion is what would actually benefit Blizzard and maybe help get this out there faster.
12/08/2017 09:33 AMPosted by Jentso
12/08/2017 09:26 AMPosted by Ravenblast
...

Again totally in agreement. As I've stated before, I really want the discussion to be about making Classic WoW the best experience that it can be. Not about crying to blizz for changes or no changes because my feelings...

They (Blizzard) said they want to hear the conversation and they will see what the community wants/needs. This is where the value in having these discussions are.


I think you may be misinterpreting what Blizzard said. The devs have so far only asked questions regarding what to implement from Vanilla's two year life span. They have further doubled down and explicitly said "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges." I think these conversations are okay to have, but I don't think it's what Blizzard is looking for.


That's how I interpreted everything as well. and that is my true hope for the game. I could probably live with a few small changes but I would rather have it the way it was. That's just my opinion.
12/08/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Jentso
12/08/2017 09:32 AMPosted by Holylr
I hope blizzard understand the difficult situation we are in. The patches are so different that Blizzard has to find a way to merge them into one(so that we don't have bugs or stupid mechanics of the past that were fixed). Then they need to unroll the content gradually.

It's a lot of work because they have to merge everything and create new(not something that wasn't there) patches, but that's the best option for them...


Exactly. This is one of the first things J Allen Brack mentioned. This discussion is what would actually benefit Blizzard and maybe help get this out there faster.


Yes, we, the community need to help Blizzard in this so that can bring us the servers quickly. Starting from 1.1 wouldn't make sense, there we so many stupid bugs there that were fixed. Same with 1.12.1, which would trivialize the content. It is possible to start with 1.12.1 patch(without the raids out yet) and tune the content accordingly. This could be interesting.

But what I think is that the best way for Blizzard would be to make custom 1.1 patch, without any bugs and stupid mechanics and start from there. This way we will have some sense of change apart from adding new dungeons. Making a static 1.12.1 patch just by adding raids/dungeons, would be very boring. Let's have thrill for patches like in the past! Not just - "ah ok, ZG is coming out, that's all". But of course I don't mean QoL or Balance changes.
12/08/2017 09:42 AMPosted by Holylr
12/08/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Jentso
...

Exactly. This is one of the first things J Allen Brack mentioned. This discussion is what would actually benefit Blizzard and maybe help get this out there faster.


Yes, we, the community need to help Blizzard in this so that can bring us the servers quickly. Starting from 1.1 wouldn't make sense, there we so many stupid bugs there that were fixed. Same with 1.12.1, which would trivialize the content. It is possible to start with 1.12.1 patch(without the raids out yet) and tune the content accordingly. This could be interesting.

But what I think is that the best way for Blizzard would be to make custom 1.1 patch, without any bugs and stupid mechanics and start from there. This way we will have some sense of change apart from adding new dungeons. Making a static 1.12.1 patch just by adding raids/dungeons, would be very boring. Let's have thrill for patches like in the past! Not just - "ah ok, ZG is coming out, that's all". But of course I don't mean QoL or Balance changes.


I agree. I understand the challenge of it, but I think rolling out the patches one at a time while at the same time fixing the game breaking bugs that came with them is the ideal solution. Is it doable on Blizzard's end? I dunno that's the question. I think this is the most "classic" experience possible. It keeps people engaged for 2 years and maintains the appropriate difficulty while doing so.
12/08/2017 09:42 AMPosted by Holylr
12/08/2017 09:35 AMPosted by Jentso
...

Exactly. This is one of the first things J Allen Brack mentioned. This discussion is what would actually benefit Blizzard and maybe help get this out there faster.


Yes, we, the community need to help Blizzard in this so that can bring us the servers quickly. Starting from 1.1 wouldn't make sense, there we so many stupid bugs there that were fixed. Same with 1.12.1, which would trivialize the content. It is possible to start with 1.12.1 patch(without the raids out yet) and tune the content accordingly. This could be interesting.

But what I think is that the best way for Blizzard would be to make custom 1.1 patch, without any bugs and stupid mechanics and start from there. This way we will have some sense of change apart from adding new dungeons. Making a static 1.12.1 patch just by adding raids/dungeons, would be very boring. Let's have thrill for patches like in the past! Not just - "ah ok, ZG is coming out, that's all". But of course I don't mean QoL or Balance changes.


I agree, I think they will need to customize the patches to meet the new era. Clean up the outstanding bugs that were glaring issues yet stagger both content and character progression. Giving us the 1.12 classes at the start will change the way early wow played and may make a lot of the content a lot easier. I doubt that is their intent.
12/08/2017 09:33 AMPosted by Jentso
I think you may be misinterpreting what Blizzard said. The devs have so far only asked questions regarding what to implement from Vanilla's two year life span. They have further doubled down and explicitly said "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges." I think these conversations are okay to have, but I don't think it's what Blizzard is looking for.


You never know, why not make the game even better than it was in 2004-2006? Blizzard is all about quality after all.

For example, do you really think that no autoloot is what made vanilla. vanilla? I'm saying no.
I'm curious why "purists" is used as an insult.
12/08/2017 09:58 AMPosted by Andonus
I'm curious why "purists" is used as an insult.


It is?
12/07/2017 02:40 AMPosted by Ravenblast
Sorry for the intentionally triggering Title but, I got a question for the purists.

Why do you want Classic to not be changed? Why not make Classic WoW the best that it can be? We now have so many more tools at our disposal than before to make life easier for us, we got addons that we did not have back then, quest helper, mob hp, etc., Websites like OpenRaid to schedule raids and find dungeon groups... why can't all of that just be implemented in the game so that new players can enjoy wow without having to download a bunch of addons and lurking on some 3rd party website to find groups. (It will happen, path of least resistance)

If you are against adding QoL things in game that we as a playerbase fixed through addons and out of game support, I think you are just being silly. We can have QoL because it will not change your gaming experience one bit, because be honest, would you really play classic with 0 addons?

EDIT: How would Mob HP, Auto-Loot, Auto-Dismount, linked flight paths, etc. ruin the game?
EDIT2: Clarity: please stop it with the "don't like it don't play" and similar responses,This thread has for purpose to discuss the changes that were not in Vanilla but should have been and can still be. I'm not talking LFD or even class balancing, just simple things that were annoying and contributed nothing to the game, the community and nostalgia.
EDIT3: Can we stop using the Slippery Slope fallacy (If we allow even just one change, it opens the Door to adding other things like LFR and spec balancing) The problem with this reasoning is that it avoids engaging with the issue at hand, and instead shifts attention to extreme hypotheticals. Because no proof is presented to show that such extreme hypotheticals will in fact occur, this fallacy has the form of an appeal to emotion fallacy by leveraging fear. In effect the argument at hand is unfairly tainted by unsubstantiated conjecture.


I think a lot of confusion could be avoided if you were to edit in "showing the mob's hp on the hp bar" then refer to it as "mob hp" instead of just saying "mob hp".

For my 2 cents:
I consider myself a purist due to my want of the wall of no. It is my hope they deliver on their word of "vanilla is vanilla."

Having said that if blizzard decided to add in a toggle to show the hp values I wouldn't mind. It dose not affect any game mechanic what so ever. On the flip side I feel like it can cheapen immersion because knowing a certain enemy has only x amount of hp lessens the danger of said enemy. But like it has been suggested a toggle would fix that.

My thoughts on aoe loot (auto loot) are just about the same as mob hp. The only difference is the effect it would have on the game. It would allow for faster farming, which would lead to more items available, which then leads to cheaper prices. This is both a good and bad thing. The cheaper prices is fantastic, but we would eventually come to a point where everyone has too much gold that it looses value; then we end up with a Zimbabwe level economy.
12/08/2017 09:56 AMPosted by Ravenblast
12/08/2017 09:33 AMPosted by Jentso
I think you may be misinterpreting what Blizzard said. The devs have so far only asked questions regarding what to implement from Vanilla's two year life span. They have further doubled down and explicitly said "Vanilla is Vanilla with all of the rough edges." I think these conversations are okay to have, but I don't think it's what Blizzard is looking for.


You never know, why not make the game even better than it was in 2004-2006? Blizzard is all about quality after all.

For example, do you really think that no autoloot is what made vanilla. vanilla? I'm saying no.


It's hard to know what Blizzard wants from this server. I think it was J Allen that said if millions of people play it great, and if only a few people play it, that's great too. Something like that. Sounds like direct profit isn't a concern, and if that's the case then I'd imagine they don't care about making the game better. I personally think classic WoW is a way to get people to play retail again and buy new expansions.
12/08/2017 10:05 AMPosted by Alphons
My thoughts on aoe loot (auto loot) are just about the same as mob hp. The only difference is the effect it would have on the game. It would allow for faster farming, which would lead to more items available, which then leads to cheaper prices. This is both a good and bad thing. The cheaper prices is fantastic, but we would eventually come to a point where everyone has too much gold that it looses value; then we end up with a Zimbabwe level economy.


Nobody was rich in Vanilla, maybe like a handful of people, also I doubt an extra second of looting is going to impact game economy.
12/08/2017 10:15 AMPosted by Ravenblast
12/08/2017 10:05 AMPosted by Alphons
My thoughts on aoe loot (auto loot) are just about the same as mob hp. The only difference is the effect it would have on the game. It would allow for faster farming, which would lead to more items available, which then leads to cheaper prices. This is both a good and bad thing. The cheaper prices is fantastic, but we would eventually come to a point where everyone has too much gold that it looses value; then we end up with a Zimbabwe level economy.


Nobody was rich in Vanilla, maybe like a handful of people, also I doubt an extra second of looting is going to impact game economy.


Oh I agree with you. I was just listing a possible counter argument. Apologizes for not making it clear.

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