Sylvanas is evil

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11/17/2017 09:26 AMPosted by Kasteravent
11/17/2017 09:23 AMPosted by Obamanite
I guess to some people evil is in the eye of the beholder. The killing of 1000s of innocent people would not be consider an evil act by some.................sick people.


Evil is evil. There's no perspective or opinion about it. Sylvanas is the embodiment of evil.


Wrong. "Good" and "Evil" are completely subjective. There is no objectivity or fact to what can be considered "good" or "evil". It is all completely subjective and opinion based. Even if the majority of people, or even "all" people think a certain thing is objectively "good", it is not factually "good".
11/17/2017 12:49 PMPosted by Valdrane
...

If condoning defending your people and seeking to end a threat to your people and the world as a whole is evil, then I guess I’m evil. If a robber ever breaks into your home (God forbid that from happening, of course), just let him kill you and your family. No big deal. I’m sure he had good reason. See what I’m getting at? Probably not, but I can hope.


If someone ever breaks into my home, I'll defend it myself, not make my neighbor defend it for me.

Which is EXACTLY what Genn did.


Gilneas = the collective home of the Worgen

The Alliance = the home of six races

Sylvanas = the robber, murderer, etc.

They defend themselves. Do you honestly think that the marines of the Skyfire felt coerced and threatened? No chance. They attacked the Forsaken fleet with a sense of pride and glory. They knew their mission, they knew the cost, and embarked courageously.

You keep trying to say Genn uses or forces people to do his bidding. That is utter hogwash. He is not Sargeras. He doesn’t threaten people with annihilation if they disagree with him. He himself was there! In the line of fire with his men. He didn’t make anyone do anything, no matter how much you keep trying to convince yourself that he did. Just stop. I already told you in one of the threads you linked, your efforts to demonize him make you look like an idiot. Your reasonings are hollow and worn and continuously debunked. Genn will never be in the same level as Sylvanas, no matter how badly you want him to be.
11/17/2017 12:55 PMPosted by Invictae
Who started the burning legion: titans ;)

I thought it existed before Sargeras got involved. As I remember it, the Titans were going around organizing planets to their specs and wiping them out whenever they didn't keep coloring within the lines. Then they found out about this group that was going around murdering the crap out of everything and sent Sargeras to deal with it. He did but ended up being corrupted by how evil the Nathrezim were, freed them all, and took over himself.
And the reason I am posting all this on my Troll is to show I’m not a knuckle dragging mongoloid Fandboy for the Alliance. I love both the Alliance and the Horde, which is why I HATE Sylvanas. In my eyes, she is every bit as much a threat to the Horde as she is to the Alliance.
Greymane is the "Jaina in Varian's ear" to Anduin, at this point.

I won't be surprised if he does some questionable things in BfA.
she stands for the true people of lordaeron the forsaken and what ever threatens that she must destroy.
11/17/2017 01:45 PMPosted by Karat
I thought it existed before Sargeras got involved. As I remember it, the Titans were going around organizing planets to their specs and wiping them out whenever they didn't keep coloring within the lines. Then they found out about this group that was going around murdering the crap out of everything and sent Sargeras to deal with it. He did but ended up being corrupted by how evil the Nathrezim were, freed them all, and took over himself.


The Demons existed, yes, but I don't believe they were united under the single banner that the Burning Legion represents.
Sky is blue, water is wet etc.
Of course she is evil, its the horde......
Ever watch some of the old orc cinematic's of warcraft 2?
I was perfectly fine with Garrosh as warchief, in fact in wod, I was really hoping they were going to let people join the Iron horde at first. It became obvious before launch this was not going to happen. I know I was not the only one. Why people keep trying to turn the horde into a good, gentle, and kind faction is beyond me. Kinda reminds me of a old post about a hunter going around in orgimmar and killing pandas best damn fan made vid I ever did see. The amount of people that got upset over that was hilarious.
11/17/2017 01:45 PMPosted by Karat
11/17/2017 12:55 PMPosted by Invictae
Who started the burning legion: titans ;)

I thought it existed before Sargeras got involved. As I remember it, the Titans were going around organizing planets to their specs and wiping them out whenever they didn't keep coloring within the lines. Then they found out about this group that was going around murdering the crap out of everything and sent Sargeras to deal with it. He did but ended up being corrupted by how evil the Nathrezim were, freed them all, and took over himself.


IIRC it wasn't that he was corrupted, but he realized that the actions of him and the other Titans are futile. He realized it was completely pointless to try and stop "evil" in the universe and spun into a dark spiral afterwards where he realized further and further that his actions have no meaning and all of the effort he has put into his cause is for nothing. He then started to doubt his actions and blah blah blah realized the only thing that can cleanse the universe is getting rid of everything blah blah blah blah blah psycho Titan
11/17/2017 01:46 PMPosted by Zuljango
And the reason I am posting all this on my Troll is to show I’m not a knuckle dragging mongoloid Fandboy for the Alliance. I love both the Alliance and the Horde, which is why I HATE Sylvanas. In my eyes, she is every bit as much a threat to the Horde as she is to the Alliance.

I disagree. Remember that her overarching goal has been to avoid going back to WoW hell ever since she found out she wasn't going back the the fuzzy elven afterlife she went to at her first death (and probably still is but well see if they give us any new insight to her thoughts and motivations). As such, it's in her best interests to make the Horde as strong as possible, especially now that she's the Warchief.

I don't know if she actually cares about the Horde on any selfless level but she probably realizes that a strong and powerful Horde is her best chance to survive as long as possible.
11/17/2017 01:52 PMPosted by Karat
11/17/2017 01:46 PMPosted by Zuljango
And the reason I am posting all this on my Troll is to show I’m not a knuckle dragging mongoloid Fandboy for the Alliance. I love both the Alliance and the Horde, which is why I HATE Sylvanas. In my eyes, she is every bit as much a threat to the Horde as she is to the Alliance.

I disagree. Remember that her overarching goal has been to avoid going back to WoW hell ever since she found out she wasn't going back the the fuzzy elven afterlife she went to at her first death (and probably still is but well see if they give us any new insight to her thoughts and motivations). As such, it's in her best interests to make the Horde as strong as possible, especially now that she's the Warchief.

I don't know if she actually cares about the Horde on any selfless level but she probably realizes that a strong and powerful Horde is her best chance to survive as long as possible.


Until she no longer needs them. Another throat to step on in her ascent to absolute power.
...

If someone ever breaks into my home, I'll defend it myself, not make my neighbor defend it for me.

Which is EXACTLY what Genn did.


Gilneas = the collective home of the Worgen

The Alliance = the home of six races

Sylvanas = the robber, murderer, etc.

They defend themselves. Do you honestly think that the marines of the Skyfire felt coerced and threatened? No chance. They attacked the Forsaken fleet with a sense of pride and glory. They knew their mission, they knew the cost, and embarked courageously.

You keep trying to say Genn uses or forces people to do his bidding. That is utter hogwash. He is not Sargeras. He doesn’t threaten people with annihilation if they disagree with him. He himself was there! In the line of fire with his men. He didn’t make anyone do anything, no matter how much you keep trying to convince yourself that he did. Just stop. I already told you in one of the threads you linked, your efforts to demonize him make you look like an idiot. Your reasonings are hollow and worn and continuously debunked. Genn will never be in the same level as Sylvanas, no matter how badly you want him to be.


You haven't debunked a damn thing. You keep making up excuses for Genn's actions and I keep shooting them down.

Your robber theory is just the latest in justifications you use to condone his actions, when that didn't work you try a different angle.

The fact is Genn did a horrible thing trying to make another race fight his battle (The Worgen from the Nightmare). And I would like to point out the Genn was unwilling to help Lordaeon when they needed him, and he had no problems abandoning them. Only to turn around and try to make other sentient beings help him fight off the Forsaken.

Yet you condone it.

Is Genn evil? No, I don't think so, did he do an evil thing, damn right he did. Subverting another race to do your will is an act of evil, plain and simple. The feral Worgen were not willing participants in the war against the Forsaken, yet they were forced into it.

But you just keep on making excuses for it.
11/17/2017 01:54 PMPosted by Zuljango
Until she no longer needs them. Another throat to step on in her ascent to absolute power.

Sure, but I think that's an issue for much further down the line. She's not going to abandon the Horde unless she's absolutely sure whatever she has next is better. While she is Warchief, she's going to do whatever it takes to make the Horde strong since it's her "bulwark against the infinite".
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Gilneas = the collective home of the Worgen

The Alliance = the home of six races

Sylvanas = the robber, murderer, etc.

They defend themselves. Do you honestly think that the marines of the Skyfire felt coerced and threatened? No chance. They attacked the Forsaken fleet with a sense of pride and glory. They knew their mission, they knew the cost, and embarked courageously.

You keep trying to say Genn uses or forces people to do his bidding. That is utter hogwash. He is not Sargeras. He doesn’t threaten people with annihilation if they disagree with him. He himself was there! In the line of fire with his men. He didn’t make anyone do anything, no matter how much you keep trying to convince yourself that he did. Just stop. I already told you in one of the threads you linked, your efforts to demonize him make you look like an idiot. Your reasonings are hollow and worn and continuously debunked. Genn will never be in the same level as Sylvanas, no matter how badly you want him to be.


You haven't debunked a damn thing. You keep making up excuses for Genn's actions and I keep shooting them down.

Your robber theory is just the latest in justifications you use to condone his actions, when that didn't work you try a different angle.

The fact is Genn did a horrible thing trying to make another race fight his battle (The Worgen from the Nightmare). And I would like to point out the Genn was unwilling to help Lordaeon when they needed him, and he had no problems abandoning them. Only to turn around and try to make other sentient beings help him fight off the Forsaken.

Yet you condone it.

Is Genn evil? No, I don't think so, did he do an evil thing, damn right he did. Subverting another race to do your will is an act of evil, plain and simple. The feral Worgen were not willing participants in the war against the Forsaken, yet they were forced into it.

But you just keep on making excuses for it.


Because many of Genn’s actions ARE ACTUALLY JUSTIFIABLE!!! For !@#$’s sake. You are being dense!

Genn left the Alliance of Lorderan during peace time, because the beurcratic corruption became unbearable, among a number of other reasons. By the time Lorderan reached out for aid against the Scourge, it was far too late. The only choice he had was to focus on defending his own nation and people. That was not selfish or evil.

In regards to the Feral Worgen, you really pulled that out of your %^-. They were called FERAL Worgen for a reason. As far as Genn knew and understood, they were just animals. Very scary and potent animals, but animals none the less. He was “assured” of this further by Arugal, who very well may have known otherwise, but did not communicate that to Genn. As a last resort, he agreed to Arugal’s dangerous plan. He had no other choices left. Desperation is not evil. He did the only he knew to try and save his people. He bears the weight of the outcome of that fateful deal with Arugal every day of his life. Something tells me you don’t read any of the books. And if you do, go back and read them again.

You really have a way of twisting facts to your own narrative. It’s ridiculous! Once again: DEBUNKED!
Graymane's son would not probably not be dead if Graymane didn't stand at the back of his band of defenders. His son would not have been able to jump in front of the arrow if he wasn't so damn far.

Maybe he's not evil but he sure was a coward back then. I guess his son's death at least made him brave.
Sylvanas isn't evil so much as she is selfish. She will do whatever it takes to keep her and her people strong and in power. That doesn't make her "evil" though.
11/17/2017 02:05 PMPosted by Zuljango
...

You haven't debunked a damn thing. You keep making up excuses for Genn's actions and I keep shooting them down.

Your robber theory is just the latest in justifications you use to condone his actions, when that didn't work you try a different angle.

The fact is Genn did a horrible thing trying to make another race fight his battle (The Worgen from the Nightmare). And I would like to point out the Genn was unwilling to help Lordaeon when they needed him, and he had no problems abandoning them. Only to turn around and try to make other sentient beings help him fight off the Forsaken.

Yet you condone it.

Is Genn evil? No, I don't think so, did he do an evil thing, damn right he did. Subverting another race to do your will is an act of evil, plain and simple. The feral Worgen were not willing participants in the war against the Forsaken, yet they were forced into it.

But you just keep on making excuses for it.


Because many of Genn’s actions ARE ACTUALLY JUSTIFIABLE!!! For !@#$’s sake. You are being dense!

Genn left the Alliance of Lorderan during peace time, because the beurcratic corruption became unbearable, among a number of other reasons. By the time Lorderan reached out for aid against the Scourge, it was far too late. The only choice he had was to focus on defending his own nation and people. That was not selfish or evil.

In regards to the Feral Worgen, you really pulled that out of your %^-. They were called FERAL Worgen for a reason. As far as Genn knew and understood, they were just animals. Very scary and potent animals, but animals none the less. He was “assured” of this further by Arugal, who very well may have known otherwise, but did not communicate that to Genn. As a last resort, he agreed to Arugal’s dangerous plan. He had no other choices left. Desperation is not evil. He did the only he knew to try and save his people. He bears the weight of the outcome of that fateful deal with Arugal every day of his life. Something tells me you don’t read any of the books. And if you do, go back and read them again.

You really have a way of twisting facts to your own narrative. It’s ridiculous! Once again: DEBUNKED!


Uh huh.

Still trying to justify his actions while condemning others for the same view of other characters. Intentions mean nothing, actions are what matters. Doesn't matter how bad he feels about it or his intentions, he still tried to make another race fight HIS battle for him.

Lots of people through out history have felt bad for their actions, still doesn't mean their actions were good or justified. You certainly are not going to justify a serial killer actions just because they feel bad about it...are you?

And I don't give a damn what is happening to you or your race, the enslavement of another race to do your will is NOT ok. I didn't agree with Sylvanas when she tried it and I certainly didn't agree with Genn when he did it. Doesn't matter if they are feral or not, they are sentient beings with a will of their own. Subverting it is an act of evil.
11/17/2017 02:11 PMPosted by Ironicknight
She will do whatever it takes to keep her and her people strong and in power. That doesn't make her "evil" though.

On its own, no. However, remember that things like plaguing Southshore so hard that even the Apothecaries think they might have gone overboard happened under her watch.
11/17/2017 02:16 PMPosted by Karat
11/17/2017 02:11 PMPosted by Ironicknight
She will do whatever it takes to keep her and her people strong and in power. That doesn't make her "evil" though.

On its own, no. However, remember that things like plaguing Southshore so hard that even the Apothecaries think they might have gone overboard happened under her watch.


I've always questioned how different it is to use the plague and a death knight using diseases, or a rogue using poisons.

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