Have you played Legion?

Classic Discussion
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12/28/2017 07:23 AMPosted by Amideus
12/27/2017 04:39 PMPosted by Mëphisto
If i wanted to be as geared as the current mythic raider for current patches, id wait for the next patch for blizzard to implement their very loved Gear quartermasters, then my 2 hours of shard farming can catch me up on the hundreds of hours of dedicated mythic raiding players did on the previous patch.... *slow clap*


I love these, it's hilarious. "Oh yea, I played Legion..." proceeds to lie about Legion to make it look worse than it is.

Current Tier = Antorus the Burning Throne
Previous Tier = Tomb of Sargeras

Tomb ilvl: RF=885, N=900, H=915, M=930
Antorus ilvl: RF=915, N=930, H=945, M=960

Current catchup mechanic is Argus, gear from argus is ilvl 910 (I know, I'm wearing it)

So at best the catchup mechanic puts you on par with Tomb Heroic ilvl, but still below even raid finder for the new content...

And every raid tier is going to be of a similar situation, where normal gear is on par with mythic from the previous tier, so that mythic raiders from the previous tier can start clearing heroic of the new tier immediately if they want.


And next expansion everything you did will be absolutely useless and green items will be better than your epics.
Never tried Legion... I quit early on into WoD. I just didn't like the concept of just running around and killing things with no risk of ever dying.... I get that there's more to Legion than just that, but as long as that element remains as largely in the game as it does, it's just not the right thing for me.
I hit max level in legion a month ago and have already cleared the final raid on heroic difficulty with little effort. My item level is higher than anyone on my friends list. It’s really, really, REALLY sad that I could do all this in a month. I don’t even feel like I’ve accomplished anything. God I hate retail, thanks for listening
12/27/2017 04:44 PMPosted by Hushups
Legion does nothing for me. They've made everything shallow by way of turning the endgame into the same craptastic hamster wheel Diablo 3 is. Get bigger numbers for the sake of fighting monsters with bigger numbers so you can get items with bigger numbers.

Legion is also a very strange combination of grind and wait.

The storytelling is good and the zones are beautiful, but the expansion feels very shallow to me.

The endgame is very confusing to me.

The gear hamster wheel, as you put it, is ridiculous. There's a ~200 item level difference from the items from early Legion to the items at the end of Legion. The scaling is absurd. Ilvl works as a percentage over previous ones... so why we're now seeing 30 iLvL jumps between tiers rather than the ~5-10 we saw in earlier WoW days is beyond me. I guess it allows them to not have to tune the fights as finely.

Instead of going from farming dungeons and quests/profs for specific items and then moving onto tier 1 raid and tier 2 raid etc. you hit max level, already outgear the first few patches raid content from quest rewards, and just farm tons of any type of content as they all drop random pieces of gear with a random assortment of stats with a random chance to be further upgraded... there's absolutely no direction and it just feels like a clusterschmuck of bite sized content to do and nothing meaty unless you're mythic raiding. And the whole concept of everybody clearing the same raid at the same time and just picking difficulty is very unsettling to me
12/28/2017 02:48 PMPosted by Whirlgig
players.

Player versus Player.


Players and PVP are very different things. You can interact with players anywhere in the game, not just PVP. It's a very broad statement. Nice try backpeddling you worthless troll.
12/28/2017 04:01 PMPosted by Anceron
It seems like it's designed for people who like to play in 30min-1hr increments.


It may surprise you that vanilla was designed with the same time frame in mind. Rested exp and BG lengths were meant to re-enforce that. They used the "Lunch break" design philosophy where you could play something on your lunch break of 3- minutes to an hour.

Just because they got some things wrong in vanilla doesn't mean that's how it was supposed to be.

12/28/2017 04:10 PMPosted by Eilethalua
They shouldn't be here in Classic Discussion trying to convince others that vanilla is terrible, WOW: Classic will be bad (unless QoL #42 is done), and we just haven't done the right stuff in Legion to know how great it is.


I like both, and most of the people hating on Legion haven't even done any raid content, barely done their campaigns, and have just been wandering around. Starting in the middle of any expansion is going to be frustrating and confusing. That said, the reason why a lot of people are tired of people complaining about Legion isn't because we are trying to make Classic more like Legion. It's because everytime we bring up any issue or point about vanilla or Classic we keep being met with "No changes" or "Vanilla is Vanilla" or "QoL killed WoW" when none of that is true nor an argument and it gets really upsetting when trolls keep trying to shut down any conversation at all.

12/28/2017 08:17 PMPosted by Brocklesnar
And next expansion everything you did will be absolutely useless and green items will be better than your epics.


And? I fail to see your point here. Was there an expansion or tier of content released that didn't offer higher value gear? No.
12/28/2017 10:57 PMPosted by Hieb
so why we're now seeing 30 iLvL jumps between tiers rather than the ~5-10 we saw in earlier WoW days is beyond me. I guess it allows them to not have to tune the fights as finely.


The reason you see those larger jumps is the inclusion of heroic and mythic dungeon difficulties. That's an entirely extra layer to the game that wasn't there before, and when it was introduced is when we saw those variations in ilvl. This was true all the way back in Wrath, where the difference between normal 10 man and heroic 25 man was roughly that much.

ICC loot ilvl:
10 man normal - 251
10 man LK - 258
10 man Heroic/ 25 man - 264
25 man LK and 10 man Heroic LK - 271
25 man Heroic - 277
25 man Heroic LK - 284

So in Wrath, the second expansion of the game, the difference between the highest ilvl and lowest ilvl in ICC was 33, and the difference between the overall was 26. The main difference is that they decided to use 5 as a round number for their increases this time around.

12/28/2017 10:57 PMPosted by Hieb
Instead of going from farming dungeons and quests/profs for specific items and then moving onto tier 1 raid and tier 2 raid etc. you hit max level, already outgear the first few patches raid content from quest rewards, and just farm tons of any type of content as they all drop random pieces of gear with a random assortment of stats with a random chance to be further upgraded


Think about that for a second. Why do you think they have a system in place that let's you bypass the early tiers of content? It's because by the time you managed to find a group for content NO ONE is running, because it's so far behind, the expansion is over. Look at Naxx40 from vanilla. It was released so late and the content grind to it was so long, that most people never got there. Not because it was difficult as lots of people like to incorrectly claim, but because by the time they could have gotten to it the expansion would have already passed them by.

So pick your poison: Be able to play in the current content, but through catchup gear mechanics. Or have to grind through old content that everyone else already did and never find groups for the stuff you want to do.
"QoL killed WoW" when none of that is true nor an argument and it gets really upsetting when trolls keep trying to shut down any conversation at all.
It's potentially the problem. Some people don't want to be spoon fed content.
The story and questing is one of the worst things they've done since vanilla. oddly so many people think its great because they see a shinny cinematic every once in a while.
Your character is literally a mary sue who is basically an unstoppable demigod and now the most powerful and exalted person of your class. Its like they make the story for 9 year old boys who want to be a superhero.
Sure, I played Legion from launch to about April and got so insanely bored that I quit WoW for the first time since 2005.
12/29/2017 06:52 AMPosted by Amideus
12/28/2017 10:57 PMPosted by Hieb
so why we're now seeing 30 iLvL jumps between tiers rather than the ~5-10 we saw in earlier WoW days is beyond me. I guess it allows them to not have to tune the fights as finely.


The reason you see those larger jumps is the inclusion of heroic and mythic dungeon difficulties. That's an entirely extra layer to the game that wasn't there before, and when it was introduced is when we saw those variations in ilvl. This was true all the way back in Wrath, where the difference between normal 10 man and heroic 25 man was roughly that much.

ICC loot ilvl:
10 man normal - 251
10 man LK - 258
10 man Heroic/ 25 man - 264
25 man LK and 10 man Heroic LK - 271
25 man Heroic - 277
25 man Heroic LK - 284

So in Wrath, the second expansion of the game, the difference between the highest ilvl and lowest ilvl in ICC was 33, and the difference between the overall was 26. The main difference is that they decided to use 5 as a round number for their increases this time around.

12/28/2017 10:57 PMPosted by Hieb
Instead of going from farming dungeons and quests/profs for specific items and then moving onto tier 1 raid and tier 2 raid etc. you hit max level, already outgear the first few patches raid content from quest rewards, and just farm tons of any type of content as they all drop random pieces of gear with a random assortment of stats with a random chance to be further upgraded


Think about that for a second. Why do you think they have a system in place that let's you bypass the early tiers of content? It's because by the time you managed to find a group for content NO ONE is running, because it's so far behind, the expansion is over. Look at Naxx40 from vanilla. It was released so late and the content grind to it was so long, that most people never got there. Not because it was difficult as lots of people like to incorrectly claim, but because by the time they could have gotten to it the expansion would have already passed them by.

So pick your poison: Be able to play in the current content, but through catchup gear mechanics. Or have to grind through old content that everyone else already did and never find groups for the stuff you want to do.


It feels to me you are a troll or whatever. I have done more in WOW then you ever did. Then you call my opinion a lie? I did not want to go looking for whatever post when you stated that. If I say legion is far more casual and easier than vanilla my opinion. My opinion I have raided in vanilla/BC/WoTLK/Cata/Legion(mythics) I have experienced the difficult content. Have you? No you sit there with LFR achievements calling me a liar. Lol I return sit in my corner on this toon with past titles you cannot get anymore and mythic achievements and +15 mythic above. Still your opinion is more than mine. Lol

When I say vanilla better than legion it is opinion but when I say it I did experience it.
12/29/2017 07:02 AMPosted by Babana
It's potentially the problem. Some people don't want to be spoon fed content.


LFR/LFD, catchup mechanics, etc are not QoL changes.

QoL is Quality of Life, and refers to changes that increase baseline functionality.

The fixes to how charge works, that's QoL.

Guild banks themselves, QoL.

The fix to vanish to prevent it breaking from stuff, QoL.

Increasing attachment limits on in-game mail, QoL.

None of these things "destroyed" the game or led to spoon-fed content and that's why it' so frustrating listening to people say "QoL killed WoW" over and over again as an argument.

New FEATURES and a change in DESIGN PHILOSOPHY killed wow.
12/29/2017 07:19 AMPosted by Zezeall
When I say vanilla better than legion it is opinion but when I say it I did experience it.


That's fine, you can say you liked vanilla more, but let me clear something up for you, because since you never bothered to quote the correct thing you're misrepresenting me and my arguments in order to bash me and call me a troll.

The only people in this thread I have called a liar are the ones with these claims:

That vanilla dungeons were harder/more mechanically challenging than Legion ones.

That you can get mythic level raid gear upgrades from the previous tier right at the start of the next one.

That Legion Mythic+ system only benefits spam AoE and doesn't offer a challenge.

etc.

If you made any of those statements, you are a liar. Because those aren't opinion based statements, they can be factually determined by the information available.

You are fine if you prefer vanilla to Legion, that's your choice. But don't sit here and call me a troll when you CAN'T EVEN QUOTE THE POST YOU'RE UPSET ABOUT.
I think some of the people who are incredulous at those who played Legion, but like classic better, need to listen. People like different things. Sometimes, they like things you cannot fathom. Yes, the classic people might go a little overboard at times comparing difficulty, but if you listen, they're not really addressing "difficulty".

They're addressing "time committment rewarded".

There is a portion of the population that desires a special feeling from this. When you saw someone in Naxx gear, you knew they had likely attuned to MC, done Blackwing Lair, and then Naxx. That's a lot of time and effort invested. That's why gear impressed people. Because you can gear up in a reasonable time now, and the next patch invalidates your time invested, this irks those types of people.

Yes, most people don't mind. But people who want classic back and dislike Legion DO mind. Lets respect them.
Hell no I haven't played it.

Zone scaling?? Hate it. I've played games with zone scaling and it 100% sucks. I despise it. Not going to play with CRZ either. That doesn't even begin to cover things like the stupid class pruning, the stupid layers of RNG, stupid legendaries, stupid pathfinding, stupid app game simulators, and stupid PvP.

Don't feel like wasting my money on stupid crap.
12/29/2017 07:28 AMPosted by Amideus
That's fine, you can say you liked vanilla more, but let me clear something up for you, because since you never bothered to quote the correct thing you're misrepresenting me and my arguments in order to bash me and call me a troll.

You keep saying this. Maybe you need to work on your communication better.
12/29/2017 07:41 AMPosted by Plum
You keep saying this. Maybe you need to work on your communication better.


The dude literally quoted something entirely different than what he wanted to complain about, that's not my fault. Want to keep personally trolling me too? Or want to actually add to the conversation?
12/29/2017 07:31 AMPosted by Lokubi
I think some of the people who are incredulous at those who played Legion, but like classic better, need to listen. People like different things. Sometimes, they like things you cannot fathom. Yes, the classic people might go a little overboard at times comparing difficulty, but if you listen, they're not really addressing "difficulty".

They're addressing "time committment rewarded".

There is a portion of the population that desires a special feeling from this. When you saw someone in Naxx gear, you knew they had likely attuned to MC, done Blackwing Lair, and then Naxx. That's a lot of time and effort invested. That's why gear impressed people. Because you can gear up in a reasonable time now, and the next patch invalidates your time invested, this irks those types of people.

Yes, most people don't mind. But people who want classic back and dislike Legion DO mind. Lets respect them.


That is a fairly reasonable stance, surprised to see it in this thread.
Here's the thing, Amideus - you've read Blizzard's statements about not adding CRZ. You've read the quotes where they've clearly stated they're going to recreate the original game "for better or for worse." I know you've read them. And yet you keep piping up with how classic isn't vanilla and they're going to make changes and blah, blah, blah.

So why do you keep making these posts?
12/29/2017 08:12 AMPosted by Plum
Here's the thing, Amideus - you've read Blizzard's statements about not adding CRZ. You've read the quotes where they've clearly stated they're going to recreate the original game "for better or for worse." I know you've read them. And yet you keep piping up with how classic isn't vanilla and they're going to make changes and blah, blah, blah.

So why do you keep making these posts?


Because unlike you I want to have a discussion, not try and shut other people's discussions down. Now again, if you want to just intentionally follow me around and troll me on every thread, I can stop that with reports right now.

If you want to have a real conversation then bring something to the table that isn't just sitting here in a thread and bashing me because you don't like what I have to say. Ornyx himself said that these conversations are WORTH HAVING. So respect that other people are allowed to talk on these forums please.

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