Give the Night Elves...

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Back our savage edge!

Blizzard has systematically de-fanged the Night Elves since the storyline changed hands from Warcraft 3 to WoW. Now they are losing their "Capital" for the sake of Red vs Blue mentality. And yes I know it's a relatively new capital and they haven't had it for very long in the grand scheme of things, but it's age is not really the point.

Use this as grounds to put back some of what was taken away, a rallying cry of sorts to return to their pre-wow mystique and vicious and very deadly reputation.

It would be nice to have something other than feeling like Night Elves have to rely on Stormwind for everything, which is ridiculous, or being used as "Human patsy race" all the time.

P.S.
Yes I'm sure this has been brought up more times than anyone can count, but it's still important enough to me to wanna bring it up again.
I wish we could, but I'm sorry, if you aren't a cow-towing sycophant, you have no place at the Humans cool kids table.
They’ve done a poor job with the storyline of the night elves. Tyrande was not a blood elf hater in Warcraft three but then come burning crusade they are telling the alliance it was their fault the sundering happened and don’t trust them. Sidestepping their role in the sundering too. Plus forgetting these highborne were the ones to aid them during the war.

They have been shown as very much stuck in their old ways hardly changing other than what had to be changed for gameplay like allowing females be druids and men be warriors.

I really think Blizzard doesn’t like them or isn’t interested in developing them further.[u][/u]
12/23/2017 08:14 AMPosted by Malakos
They’ve done a poor job with the storyline of the night elves. Tyrande was not a blood elf hater in Warcraft three but then come burning crusade they are telling the alliance it was their fault the sundering happened and don’t trust them. Sidestepping their role in the sundering too. Plus forgetting these highborne were the ones to aid them during the war.

They have been shown as very much stuck in their old ways hardly changing other than what had to be changed for gameplay like allowing females be druids and men be warriors.

I really think Blizzard doesn’t like them or isn’t interested in developing them further.[u][/u]


Sadly looking at everything this is how it feels, that Night Elves (and many of the races period.) aren't very much cared for by blizz or the writing team.
It definitely feels like the same people who designed the Night Elves for Warcraft 3/TFT have left the WoW team long ago.

WC3 NE and WoW NE are pretty much two different races at this point. The differences between them are both literally and metaphorically night and day. We're just purple humans now.
Night Elves have to stop conforming to Alliance norms if they want to regain their WC3 identity.

Look at the Forsaken - they haven't assimilated into Kalimdor's Horde and they still have their WC3 identity.

Night Elves need to stop wearing dresses and Stormwind plate, and instead go back to furs and more revealing armor. They can't keep answering to Human commanders. They need to regain some sense of cultural superiority and pride.

The idea of an integrated Alliance military usually involves conforming non-Human races to Human practices, like wearing their armor and operating their machinery. It hides what makes the races unique.

That might be fine for Trolls, Orcs, and Tauren, who have integrated to the point that Orgrimmar is a multi-racial capital with its own culture, but it doesn't apply to the Alliance.
12/23/2017 08:29 AMPosted by Yagarr


Look at the Forsaken - they haven't assimilated into Kalimdor's Horde and they still have their WC3 identity.


The Forsaken did not have an identity in Warcraft 3 because they didn't exist in Warcraft 3. They were designed in WoW.

In Warcraft 3, you just played as the Undead Scourge.

12/23/2017 08:29 AMPosted by Yagarr
That might be fine for Trolls, Orcs, and Tauren, who have integrated to the point that Orgrimmar is a multi-racial capital with its own culture, but it doesn't apply to the Alliance.


Yes it works well for these three races in the sense that it also works well for Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes. Both of these triads were each designated as their own faction in WC3 - Humans and Orcs. Night Elves and Undead don't really fit the mold so well.
The Forsaken did not have an identity in Warcraft 3 because they didn't exist in Warcraft 3. They were designed in WoW.


Sylvanas' broke away from the Scourge in WC3.

12/23/2017 08:31 AMPosted by Phenomenolog
works well for Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes.


Not even then.

They're closer in culture than other Alliance groups, but they're their own three separate nations and societies.

The Horde is defined by assimilation in a way the Alliance isn't. We even have a single, central leader.

Only the Forsaken and Blood Elves ever really seem apart from the other 5 races. Even Goblins are heavily featured in Kalimdor's Horde.
I support night elves going back to their savage Warcraft 3 roots!

You have my vote.

Edit: honestly, I don’t think the night elves would have joined the alliance or horde. They would have stayed their own faction.
12/23/2017 08:29 AMPosted by Yagarr


Look at the Forsaken - they haven't assimilated into Kalimdor's Horde and they still have their WC3 identity.


The Forsaken did not have an identity in Warcraft 3 because they didn't exist in Warcraft 3. They were designed in WoW.

In Warcraft 3, you just played as the Undead Scourge.


Sylvanas and her band of sentient undead are the Forsaken. They have always been and still are a rebel splinter of the Scourge. How was their implementation different in Vanilla WoW than WCIII?
Night Elves have a differente and very special place in the races that are not humans or orcs. Usually all those other races tend to be forgotten, they see no developement but at least they get to remain as we have ever known them. Then comes the Night Elves and all Blizzard manages to do is to destroy them bit by bit with every patch and expansion. Currently there is hardly if any standing iconic thing Night Elves used to have. Blizzard has stripped us from so many things that I'm begining to wonder why are we still in game as a race. Which might be what Blizzard thinks now that our city is being nuked.
They say they want to use elves in a cool way but over the many years that has not been true at all.
I have noticed my last posts have been all complaining about this very topic but sadly it is because of this that I was about to unsubscribe a few years ago. I just stopped playing because I got tired of how they handled my elves and with what happend in MoP I gave up and only came back to see the promise of Legion and its wonders but besides Tyrande battling at the Temple of Elune it all was a big desillusion.
I was so sure Malfurion and Tyrande were gonna lead the offensive against the Legion but why would they if we have a Human who of course knows more about the Legion than the very elves that have fought them several times since 10k years ago.
So no, I don't think Blizz has any idea how to use them in a proper way unless they really intent on having them be the punching bag that the meta plot requiers.
12/23/2017 08:38 AMPosted by Jacksprat
Sylvanas and her band of sentient undead are the Forsaken. They have always been and still are a rebel splinter of the Scourge. How was their implementation different in Vanilla WoW than WCIII?


Well, in WCIII, the Forsaken were completely undeveloped, had little to no motivation explained, and served no function in the story other than to prop up Sylvie, being a complete afterthought to the drama involving her, Garithos and Varimathras.

So you are correct, they have the exact same characterization now that they did then.
12/23/2017 08:56 AMPosted by Kelrexia
12/23/2017 08:38 AMPosted by Jacksprat
Sylvanas and her band of sentient undead are the Forsaken. They have always been and still are a rebel splinter of the Scourge. How was their implementation different in Vanilla WoW than WCIII?


Well, in WCIII, the Forsaken were completely undeveloped, had little to no motivation explained, and served no function in the story other than to prop up Sylvie, being a complete afterthought to the drama involving her, Garithos and Varimathras.

So you are correct, they have the exact same characterization now that they did then.


So..... the Forsaken were introduced in WCIII?
12/23/2017 08:58 AMPosted by Jacksprat
So..... the Forsaken were introduced in WCIII?


I never argued they weren't. It's a technical thing, to be sure -- the group isn't even named until the very last line of their campaign in TFT, and it's hilariously inaccurate given what had immediately preceded it -- but I would say so, yes.
It all comes down to the fact that, since Cata/MoP, the Alliance has been written as a Blue, Pretty Horde. Complete with a Blue Warchief that apparently can dictate other races' government structures and orders them around like Vassals. A completely integrated military that doesn't even try to utilize any aesthetic beyond the one of the Blue Warchief.

The fact that a Military Alliance of what's supposed to be sovereign nations united for mutual defense and interests is more consolidated and monolithic than an actual singular nation headed up by a singular ruler is... I don't even know what it is, besides bad.

The Nelves getting their savage nature back should be step one to shattering the particular rut that blizzard has written the Alliance into.
12/23/2017 09:09 AMPosted by Kelrexia
12/23/2017 08:58 AMPosted by Jacksprat
So..... the Forsaken were introduced in WCIII?


I never argued they weren't. It's a technical thing, to be sure -- the group isn't even named until the very last line of their campaign in TFT, and it's hilariously inaccurate given what had immediately preceded it -- but I would say so, yes.


Just trying to figure out where you fit in it because your response gave no indication.
Well it would seem most people that have posted are in agreement with at least the base premise of my post, so then what in your opinions, could be done to help change this? What sort of things could Blizzard put into place?
12/23/2017 10:09 AMPosted by Mylinea
Well it would seem most people that have posted are in agreement with at least the base premise of my post, so then what in your opinions, could be done to help change this? What sort of things could Blizzard put into place?


They really need to take the reigns from the Humans, a bit. With the Horde, a non-Orc was put in charge twice. With the Alliance, the HK title was handed to the next human in line. make the HK something other than human. When the Nelves get whatever land they are set to get, make sure it is portrayed as they are supremely capable of defending it, as the Forsaken have been, up till BfA.

Bot the Forsaken and the Nelves were the most independent of their factions. Blizz lost sight of this, with the Nelves, when they needed Garrosh to attack something. The Nelves need to be a force, in their own right, aside from just being more members in a joint Alliance military unit like the SI:7.

edit: Also, make some interfaction conflict, where the Nelves come out on top. Fotr instance, let the rest of the Allaince disagree with how the nelves want to handle something and let the Nelves do it anyways and end up beign right about going that course. This would restore the military competence they are supposed to have, that they lost to varian.
12/23/2017 10:09 AMPosted by Mylinea
Well it would seem most people that have posted are in agreement with at least the base premise of my post, so then what in your opinions, could be done to help change this? What sort of things could Blizzard put into place?
I know this is going to sound strange, but divide them up. If blizzard just... pretends they haven't neutered the night elves for 13 years, it's going to come off as ham handed and awkward.

Instead, in the wake of Darnassus's fall, we should see this divide between what the night elves are currently (Tyrande and her section that flees to the EK with her) and what they were and ought to be. Ideally, a force of embittered guerilla fighters that occupy the forests of Ashenvale and Darkshore, with a massive Sentinel Army marching against the Horde from Feralas.

This second group should question the benefits of the Alliance to the Kaldorei and all but reject their part of said Alliance. When the Alliance finds them, they ought to see heads of orcs and trolls put up as warnings, with burnt out Horde villages that make Taurajo look like a military mercy.

The Alliance at large should balk at their methods, in the same way that most of the Horde balks at the methods of the Forsaken.
12/23/2017 08:28 AMPosted by Phenomenolog
It definitely feels like the same people who designed the Night Elves for Warcraft 3/TFT have left the WoW team long ago.


Feels like that was around Cataclysm. Mists was also another key moment, when Metzen and Kosak promised that Night Elves would get their time to shine, and we got A little Patience out of that. Hell, Blizzard was talking about ringing the Divine Bell in Darnassus until we complained in the forums.

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