If its not true to classic it will fail.

Classic Discussion
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If you make a Frankenstein game you will not keep the private server crowd who wants classic, and the kids who are begging for changes wont stay long term anyway.

Not sticking close to classic will doom the project.
A, yea. I seriously doubt it. There are way too many people out there that would still play it.
I can only speak for myself but I’m in either way. Can’t imagine I’m alone.
It will be fine either way for those that want it. Myself personally I am not a huge fan of vanilla because the most important thing for MMO is exploration and the story going out there and learning/seeing all that. Because I already did that for vanilla over a decade ago, it won’t be that appealing to me sadly as I already explored and journeyed all of vanilla wow.
12/20/2017 06:10 PMPosted by Pathyra
If you make a Frankenstein game you will not keep the private server crowd who wants classic, and the kids who are begging for changes wont stay long term anyway.

Not sticking close to classic will doom the project.


There are two types of Frankenstein games.

Type vanilla, these are the kinds that most of the private servers are. Typically these are 1.12.2 version servers with vanilla like content releases.

Type QoL, these are what people who are crying for changes are asking for.
The reason you are making a vanilla server now is because you want the giant pie that is vanilla private servers.
My advice is to change nothing, if you do, not only will you not be able to eat all of the pie, it will give a reason for private servers to exist, which will continue to fill with people who don't want your changes.
If you want private servers to be strangled to death, then make vanilla without changes.
12/20/2017 07:38 PMPosted by Meleecounter
The reason you are making a vanilla server now is because you want the giant pie that is vanilla private servers.
My advice is to change nothing, if you do, not only will you not be able to eat all of the pie, it will give a reason for private servers to exist, which will continue to fill with people who don't want your changes.
If you want private servers to be strangled to death, then make vanilla without changes.


First I agree, but it must be said that private realms are not a perfect 1:1 replica, they're also Frankenstein wow, only using vanilla components.

I'm ok with the private servers, but I am hoping that blizzard makes darn sure things work accurately on their realms; something the private realms have not fully achieved.
Well said, OP.

As I mentioned elsewhere, there is a huge, stable market for a Classic server. But there is no stable market for a Classic+ server, just tourists.
Many private servers are also a 'Frankenstein game'.
I saw on another post where someone posted a list of QoL features that was in Nost but not in vanilla. It was also amusing that when someone asked for those QoL features found on Nost in another thread, they were blasted by the pserver crowd too.
I think this is becoming a bit too black-and-white. What's wrong with releasing Maraudon from the start? If you delay it to a later patch as happened in the original wow then there is going to be a huge segment of the population that don't get to run this dungeon when they are levelling their characters.

Dire Maul I think should be held back as I understand the quality of loot plus the potential for farming can devalue other high level instances, so it is best used as a later catch-up dungeon.

And what about having a World PvP weekend (that rotates with BG weekends) where you get double honor from World PvP kills. People have pointed out that world PvP declined with battlegrounds so what is wrong with rotating a world-pvp weekend.

As for other changes i'd recommend at least getting Vanilla out there (there's tonnes of things for people to do) and after some time it is a question that should be looked into.
For one thing people talk about alternate timelines but maybe that is overkill and not necessary. Burning crusade can still take place after Classic however the thing with Burning Crusade is that nearly all the events happened off-world.

That doesn't mean that nothing was happening in Azeroth during this time.
Perhaps some additional Classic content can explore some sub-plots that were going on in Azeroth at the same time as the Burning Crusade events.

It's a big world and there's plenty of room to add some additional storytelling and patch up the existing quests that were broken or led to dead-ends.
No they wont. Given the chance to play a official server or a private server they will play the official one that won't get shut down.
TBH I'm in either way, to everyone who wants a blizzard run p server... why?

Vanilla was a mess, things changed constantly. Hardware got upgraded and things got tuned, then re-tuned, then nerfed, then buffed.

To think that just slapping patch 1.12.1 on server is somehow vanilla is asinine, that patch was up for what? 3 months before 2.0 rolled out? That's like looking at the tail end of MoP with the free gear from timeless isle and claiming that's the true MoP.

Personally I hope they take their time and give us what vanilla would have been if it had released today, spirit intact.

Slow leveling, difficult dungeons, tons of trash and all.

As for the QoL changes aren't vanilla crowd, vanilla was 8 thousand addons all eating your memory to give you less useful information than the current base UI.

Redo the UI, clean up the API, go for it.

Changing the talents? go for it! Vanilla was literally about spending hard earned gold only to figure out that something that looked good on the talent calculator plays like junk.

Half the talents were junk anyway. Which is why they got changed for 2.0 then again and again and again...

No need to stick with exactly what was in 1.12.1... call Classic 1.50.1 and change all the trees using the knowledge gained over the past 13-14 years to make all the talent trees shine.
I'll give classic a shot no matter what they do or don't change. Might not stick it out. Time will tell.

Regardless of what Blizzard does, some tiny thing will not be exactly the same and I'm sure folks will flood the forums with that thing being why classic failed. Even if classic doesn't fail. (I'd be surprised if it didn't attract enough of a dedicated, stable population to be worth keeping the servers open regardless of what changes they make.)
12/20/2017 07:38 PMPosted by Meleecounter
The reason you are making a vanilla server now is because you want the giant pie that is vanilla private servers.
My advice is to change nothing, if you do, not only will you not be able to eat all of the pie, it will give a reason for private servers to exist, which will continue to fill with people who don't want your changes.
If you want private servers to be strangled to death, then make vanilla without changes.


"Giant pie." You are severely overestimating the number of private server players. The largest active private server has about 10k players at primetime. Other servers average at a fraction of that size.

When you're talking about the number of private server players in comparison to the number of people playing on live servers, you may as well be saying "literally dozens."
If you refuse a frankenpatch type of server then the only acceptable patch is 1.5 or 1.6 because of the implementation of AV (1.5) and then the unacceptable nerfs (1.8 and later).

Stop being a child and saying things like:

12/20/2017 06:10 PMPosted by Pathyra
If you make a Frankenstein game you will not keep the private server crowd


and accept that people who played vanilla played for different reasons. Let the BGers choose an optimal patch for them, the wPvPers choose their patch, the raiders theirs, etc.

There is no reason that EVERYTHING has to be 1.12 just because "muh purity". IMO (and from what I can tell many here agree with this) if it was in Vanilla then it's up for discussion and hopefully Blizzard will choose the best of each patch.
12/21/2017 03:41 AMPosted by Lhyrianna
12/20/2017 07:38 PMPosted by Meleecounter
The reason you are making a vanilla server now is because you want the giant pie that is vanilla private servers.
My advice is to change nothing, if you do, not only will you not be able to eat all of the pie, it will give a reason for private servers to exist, which will continue to fill with people who don't want your changes.
If you want private servers to be strangled to death, then make vanilla without changes.


"Giant pie." You are severely overestimating the number of private server players. The largest active private server has about 10k players at primetime. Other servers average at a fraction of that size.

When you're talking about the number of private server players in comparison to the number of people playing on live servers, you may as well be saying "literally dozens."


You're equating number of players online at a specific point in time to the number of active players. Top kek mate.

Nostalrius, one private server, had 200k active accounts. Felmyst had thousands of registered accounts on day 1. Go check out how many Warmane has.

You'll be in for a rude awakening when you see Classic wiping the floor with live.
12/21/2017 04:12 AMPosted by Falathrin
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"Giant pie." You are severely overestimating the number of private server players. The largest active private server has about 10k players at primetime. Other servers average at a fraction of that size.

When you're talking about the number of private server players in comparison to the number of people playing on live servers, you may as well be saying "literally dozens."


You're equating number of players online at a specific point in time to the number of active players. Top kek mate.

Nostalrius, one private server, had 200k active accounts. Felmyst had thousands of registered accounts on day 1. Go check out how many Warmane has.

You'll be in for a rude awakening when you see Classic wiping the floor with live.


Assuming that any server was half as popular as Nostalrius, and being extremely generous, let's assume there are 1 million people *total* playing private servers actively. And that's extrapolating from the number of accounts *made* on the most popular private server to date, which is a poor metric of an active playerbase anyway.

Subscription counts put the lowest point of Warlords of Draenor around 7.5 million.

Even under the assumption that it's not a drop in the bucket, the private scene doesn't hold a candle to sub counts during what most people agree was the worst expansion in World of Warcraft's history.

"Wiping the floor" indeed.
I'm not a purist but I do want something pretty damn close to vanilla. If they add guild banks, or transmog it won't stop me from playing. But if they add LFD, CRZ, change the talent trees, or try to change the classes from how they played in vanilla, then I am just done with everything Blizzard. Only thing I'm playing right now anyways is D2. Paying for a sub that I don't even use anymore in WOW. I could care less about any of their newer games.
12/21/2017 04:18 AMPosted by Lhyrianna
Subscription counts put the lowest point of Warlords of Draenor around 7.5 million.


LOL there's no point in engaging in a discussion with you if you believe there are 7.5 million subscriptions right now. Subs dropped to 5 million in WoD.

Again, I repeat Nostalrius, ONE private server had 1/5th of a million people. The remaining private servers were garbage quality. Felmyst was gonna have much more. If there were plenty of good private stable servers that count would be much higher.

But you're right, it would never equal the amount of live players. That is for the simple fact they're not Blizzard polished, hosted, illegal, risk etc. etc. Not because of which game is better.

Classic will always be the truer MMORPG, no matter which way you look at it.
Live will continue its insta gratification microtransaction ways. It's hardly an MMORPG anymore.

Classic will trash live. Wait and see ;).
People will still play classic, even if its modified. You know it to be true. =)

However, I get it. You want the legacy museum of classic, and will likely come to pass. I imagine Blizzard will make a few QoL changes that the OCD crowd will whine about for ten minutes as they load the game, then forget about a week later as they are leveling in Westfall.

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