Quit saying 7.3.5 makes the game challenging.

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01/19/2018 11:24 PMPosted by Kneeshooter
Wall of text saying what others have said (often repeatedly by the same posters).

And guess what...7.3.5 makes the game challenging!

*so there*


Yeah it sure did. So much so that killing mobs in old content was harder than killing them in current content beyond the old content level cap with gear from the xpack after it. They had to make some changes to tone that down it was so terrible. But people like you will praise everything Blizz does as a good idea no matter how terrible it actually is.
Florence says: 7.3.5 makes the game challenging.

Fight me! <333
01/19/2018 10:25 PMPosted by Arastyra
There is nothing challenging about this. They nerfed your damage into the ground while at the same time buffing enemy HP and increasing how much XP you need to level by up to 60% in some places.

There's nothing difficult or challenging about the game. Mobs don't do more damage. They don't have better AI. They do not have new moves. Literally the only difference is it takes 3 times as long to kill things now.

For those of us who've sunk tens of thousands of gold into heirlooms, we did so for a reason. That reason, though it should be obvious, clearly isn't to some people. We've done these zones countless times. We don't care about ~seeing the story~ because we already have. Many, many times over. We want to one-shot mobs and speed through low levels so we can join our friends at 110.

As it is right now, as an altoholic, I have absolutely no desire to roll an alt to test this any further than I already have. Even dropping Allied Races wouldn't make me excited to level again. Not with the current changes. Either heirlooms should've taken a damage hit or enemies should've been given more HP. [/b]Both things should not have happened at once.[b] And there certainly shouldn't need to be such an ungodly massive increase to XP needed to level.

Right now, dungeons aren't worth doing at all. Wait times are terrible, dungeon quests aren't really worth doing, and you can't dungeon chain to expedite leveling anymore. You'd gain more XP from questing in the world.

I know the point of this patch is to desperately try to retain sub numbers between expansions by making it take longer to level (or you could just look to your right, where all these shiny $60 level boosts are sitting, waiting for you to buy!) but man alive is that the most tone deaf thing you could've ever done. You're actively driving away people and keeping others from resubbing to test things out.

Because who on earth wants it to take twice as long to reach max level? You have to gain 109 - and soon 119 - levels to hit current content. And you want to slow that down? Excuse me? You should be wanting to make it faster. Revert the changes, Blizzard. Because as it stands, if this sticks, I have absolutely no reason to stay subbed. If I can't mess around with alts due to it taking ages to slog through ancient content, then I have far less to do and far fewer reasons to keep paying money. I have a few class mounts left, and there's always tiered gear to farm. But even that's been nerfed.

And farming transmog got worse due to personal loot being thrust upon everyone. Add to this the ridiculous MoP/WoD raid issue (yes, I'm aware it's been "fixed" by now, but the fact that it made it live is mindboggling) and it really makes me wonder if anyone ever bothered reporting/reading anything from the PTR. How do you fumble this hard all across the board? You've made leveling a slog again.

I have a friend who was going to resub when 7.3.5 dropped to check out the new leveling and to work on the inane rep grind required for Allied Races. After reporting back how pitifully slow leveling was, how worthless dungeons were (and how much longer it took to get into them) and how little damage I was doing in full heirlooms, she decided against it. So you're actively scaring away people who might have come back.

Revert these changes, Blizzard. You haven't added any form of challenge to WoW by doing this. You've just made it take longer to level up and kill mobs. There's nothing challenging about having to mash early-game buttons 10 times instead of 2. I have all the time in the world to play right now, and the only reasons I've logged in were to send followers out on Argus missions that give rep tokens and to idly work towards the Hunter class mount. I certainly don't want to level any characters through this mess you've made. My sub runs out in the first days of February, and I'm absolutely not re-upping it.

I know I'm just one person, and what I say means ultimately nothing. But these people claiming there's a challenge to leveling or dungeons are being ridiculous. Change the XP required to level back to what it was. Nerf mob HP back down to reasonable levels. Buff heirlooms back to where they should be. People buy, upgrade, and use them for a reason.

And none of this even touches on the fact that the game must feel horrifying to people without heirlooms. I know lots of people choose not to use them, I know many people do challenge runs (I myself did a Nomadic run, where the only gear you can equip is vendor-bought or self-made. No quest rewards, no dungeon runs, no random mob drops) and it was great fun. ...But that's when I could hurt mobs even with white gear and it didn't take 40-60% extra XP per level. If it had, there's no way I would've gotten to 110 on that character.

Roll all of these changes back. The people who hate one-shotting mobs can go without heirlooms. I don't see why the rest of us have to be punished with these changes. Right now, above all else, this change feels motivated by greed. Greed to keep players paying longer by making leveling slower. Greed to offer frustrated players a level boost. I can't log in without Trade/General being filled with people saying they hate leveling now. I dunno if BfA's stat squish would even out any of these issues, but BfA's a long ways away so it really doesn't matter.

What does is that many, many, many people aren't having fun anymore, and the utter silence on Blizzard's part isn't helping. They clearly didn't listen to anyone on the PTR - which is their fault but also people using the PTR as an early-access playground instead of using it for its intended purpose - who reported how bad this felt. Outside of greed, it's hard to see why any of this exists. Quit saying the game is more difficult now. It really isn't.


TL:DR but QQ etc... Why do these random nobodies feel they have the right to demand changes?
01/19/2018 11:40 PMPosted by Brooklÿnn
TL:DR but QQ etc... Why do these random nobodies feel they have the right to demand changes?


Dood. It's the GD forums. They have as much right as we do. That's what it's here for.

I mean he's out to lunch, but there are much better ways to mock him.
I started leveling a shaman, and was worried because of all the doomsday talk on the GD. But as i went along stuff still died really fast. I would have to cast 3 spells, instead of what i would assume to be 2 spell casts before 7.3.5. So now that I experienced it first hand, i really dont understand the complaints of the scaling, stuff dies really fast instead of stupid fast.

The experience increase though i can understand
Let me share an example that happened just moments ago. I'm in Stonetalon mountains, and I finished the questline with the Tauren's son.


Its the Krom'gar questllne, "What it Means to be Horde", done it a dozen times. it isnt about his son at all, thats just the last chapter.

The questline is about the Krom'gar offensive in Stonetalon.

I had to fight a general who was elite and his two guards. I don't have any boa gear on and I'm playing fury.


Okay.

I charged in, hit shockwave, and got to work on the general. I got him to about 30% HP and died. I had to run back (and it was a long run).


Next time let the Tauren handle him. Thats how the quest was designed.

Now, pre 7.3.5, his health would have been negligible.


No, it wasnt.

I rose to the challenge


Congrats on beating a fight I beat in 2010 with no BOA.

On a fury Orc warrior.

It isnt a challenge at all.

The game is more challenging. Stop being so obtuse and pushing a false narrative that simply isn't in line with the reality of the game.


No its back to where it was pre Cata, long and tedious and boring as hell.

Tedious and long = / = "challenge"

P.S I cant hep but facepalm every single time I see the words "video game" and "challenge" in the same sentence. One does not validate oneself by what one does in front of a computer game.
01/19/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Straverra
01/19/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Thallia
Yet another thread that could have easily added this entire essay to one of the other 80000 threads on this topic.

And another 80000 trolls are making threads about how 7.3.5 is great, usually with very flimsy opinions, if not outright lies.

We need people like the OP drowning them out.


The only drowning he's doing is our eyes, with a wall of text.

I'm prone to verbosity, but good lord, learn to be at least a bit more concise.

That said:

Do we really need to lower ourselves to this? I'm not a troll of if I saw I like the new leveling changes. How would you even know?

This person, however, is telling me what I should think. "You should want to level faster!" Well that's what he wants, but just saying that we 'should' want something doesn't make it so. At best he's just assuming we all think like him.

Same, honestly, with you, I suspect. You have no idea if these alts were leveling are our second alts, our third, or our 40th. It doesn't matter. People are capable of liking things, OR DISLIKING, that you don't (or do).

My opinion is that I like the slower leveling pace, because it lets me spend more time in the gear I actually acquire. It, for me, gives more meaning to each upgrade I get, while also giving me time to actually explore, and experience story lines, without artificially limiting my own progression.

Are there things I'd change? Well, sure. I'd give mobs more mechanics, so that fights meant a bit more. It's all well and good that things have been more paced out, it really is, for me. I'd like fights to mean something though. Personally, I'd like a timeless isle style experience. "Learn these mobs, and then trivialize them with mechanics and skill." That was great, and we've not seen much like it. The leveling experience could use some of that.
01/19/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Axebreaker
01/19/2018 10:25 PMPosted by Arastyra
Quit saying the game is more difficult now. It really isn't.


I've died several times while levelling, to elite mobs. And once to regular mobs when they respawned around me. And if you're not following the threads about people talking about how dungeons are "overtuned", you're not paying attention.

Game's more challenging. Like it or lump it.


Then you are just bad. Dungeons are only overtuned because everything is a health sponge now and downranking doesn't exist anymore so healers can run oom. They also aren't providing xp in line with the amount of time they take to kill.
01/19/2018 11:21 PMPosted by Darktalon
7.35 makes the game challenging.


no.. its not, its not face roll anymore, but its not hard either... its just tedious
Of course it's more challenging. You have to work hard to stay awake it's so boring.

01/19/2018 10:34 PMPosted by Thallia
01/19/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Lóst
Not to mention nerfing heirlooms into the ground and making old world dungeons essentially untankable on certain classes.
Heirlooms aren't nerfed into the ground. Their stats are in line with quest and dungeon gear. The XP buff and the fact that they scale hasn't changed. You don't need to min/max stats to level and they don't want you one-shotting stuff while you level. They also don't want people kicking others out of dungeons for not having heirlooms.

Your precious stats aren't a "nerf into the ground." Heirlooms are for the XP boost and the ease of not having to worry about replacing gear.

They had excellent stats before. They definitely don't now. How is that not a steep nerf?

I'm not going to argue whether it was right to nerf heirloom stats until they were as horrible as questing gear. But it's objectively true that they nerfed the stats.
it makes leveling more old school and interesting. one shotting stuff was boring...

also if you don't think that purely buffing states can make something more challenging...really, just really?

it's making my dungeon leveling runs more challenging which is great. tanks actually die now etc...

seriously, i can't comprehend how people are complaining about them unbreaking the game a bit...in the leveling section...
01/19/2018 10:28 PMPosted by Thallia
Yet another thread that could have easily added this entire essay to one of the other 80000 threads on this topic.

Yet another comment that could have not bumped said thread if you would have simply ignored it in the first place ,but now we are here .
01/19/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Axebreaker
Game's more challenging. Like it or lump it.
It's actually not. I think the phrase they use is: git gud.
01/20/2018 12:08 AMPosted by Linra
01/19/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Axebreaker
Game's more challenging. Like it or lump it.
It's actually not. I think the phrase they use is: git gud.


yet another "everyone is a noob but me, i'm such an old player pro that all i do is level infinite numbers of alts every day, even when leveling became the easiest thing in the world recently. i also am such a pro that now i complain about them making it slightly harder, but still vastly easier than in older versions of the game. because i'm such a pro" post
01/19/2018 10:36 PMPosted by Krazzix
Exactly. It's the same quests, same zones and same dungeons as before, just now far slower to progress through.

If a time-consuming, unrewarding leveling experience is what you've always wanted, I suppose you're looking forward to WoW Classic then.


The reward is meeting new people along the way, actually using more than one button to insta-kill a mob, having to actually be careful with your pulls, taking it a little slower in dungeons, which now require at least a few brain cells to go through.

How could ANYONE say that the leveling experience before the patch was rewarding, engaging and fun?

Sure, if you like being a demi-god and having zero risk of ever dying no matter how many mobs you pulled.

If that's, "fun" for someone, wow... I'm at a complete loss for words, I truly am.

To each their own, I guess, but wow the whining is NUTS this patch. Like, why the hell would anyone want that boring, mindless and absolutely BRAINLESS leveling experience we had prior to this?

I don't understand it... AT all.

I guess I don't need to. I enjoy it.
01/20/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Bééfadin
01/20/2018 12:08 AMPosted by Linra
...It's actually not. I think the phrase they use is: git gud.


yet another "everyone is a noob but me, i'm such an old player pro that all i do is level infinite numbers of alts every day, even when leveling became the easiest thing in the world recently. i also am such a pro that now i complain about them making it slightly harder, but still vastly easier than in older versions of the game. because i'm such a pro" post
Nope, just using his logic against him.
01/19/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Axebreaker
01/19/2018 10:25 PMPosted by Arastyra
Quit saying the game is more difficult now. It really isn't.


I've died several times while levelling, to elite mobs. And once to regular mobs when they respawned around me. And if you're not following the threads about people talking about how dungeons are "overtuned", you're not paying attention.

Game's more challenging. Like it or lump it.


elite mobs you know that i can get but, regular mobs? just because youre special does not mean the rest of us are.
01/20/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Glaivedancer
The reward is meeting new people along the way
No, the patch did not help this in anyway. It actually discourages old dungeons so in a way it promotes the opposite.
01/20/2018 12:08 AMPosted by Linra
It's actually not. I think the phrase they use is: git gud.


01/19/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Xathsmash
Then you are just bad.


Let me see if I have this right. The game isn't challenging. I'm just bad at the game. And in order to defeat the mobs I'm having trouble with, I should get better from the game. But the process of going from "bad" to "good" is does not qualify as overcoming a challenge?
01/20/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Linra
01/20/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Bééfadin
...

yet another "everyone is a noob but me, i'm such an old player pro that all i do is level infinite numbers of alts every day, even when leveling became the easiest thing in the world recently. i also am such a pro that now i complain about them making it slightly harder, but still vastly easier than in older versions of the game. because i'm such a pro" post
Nope, just using his logic against him.


i don't really notice any logic in your post at all...

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