If Classic is popular, will it affect retail?

Classic Discussion
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01/22/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Anitharia
01/22/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Starman
If reserves happen in Classic, it's going to be a serious problem. And you KNOW that certain people in the WoW community like to push their agendas.


Sounds like you're describing yourself there with the agenda pushing.


WTF does this have to do with anything? Post constructively.
01/22/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Taelus
01/22/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Starman
...

You mean a server that has XP and itemization that's nothing like the real numbers, with people saying "Need X, Y is on reserve", no guarantee that it'll be running tomorrow, overcrowded servers?

That's delicious?

To be fair, I haven't been on a private server, but this is what people here have been saying about them. 11k on ONE SERVER? That has to be madness.


If you've never been on a private server, why are you pretending to know anything about them? There's only two servers that have ever had that kind of population, Nostraiius and Lights Hope (which stole it's user database from Elysium and then invited literally 3k or so chinese gold sellers to the server). The server I play on caps around 6k on weekends, is usually around 4k or so which is more in line with later official servers.

Most of the popular servers have 1x XP gains, meaning experience gains are the same as originally designed. Some "fun servers" have XP multipliers like x4 or x6 but they are not nearly as popular.

Itemization differences are an issue with some servers (Kronos, I'm looking at you) but the Nost/Ely core in common use now comes pretty darned close to being accurate. I will say that I've noticed higher drop rates on quest items though, which is bothersome but considering the staggering amount of data that needs to be recreated for private server databases, it's not a big thing.

As far as reserves go...did you actually play vanilla? Reserves were common as hell, especially in guild runs that just needed one or two pugs to flesh out a group. No guild in their right mind would pull in a pug for MC and then let him roll on a binding, for example. And even in 5 mans, the MT or MH would usually reserve important items, and in MANY cases, simply wouldn't allow anyone who might compete for that item into the group.


I already stated the reserves didn't happen on Whisperwind. We had the 1/1/1 rule.
01/22/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Starman
01/22/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Anitharia
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Sounds like you're describing yourself there with the agenda pushing.


WTF does this have to do with anything? Post constructively.


Why? You don't post constructively. All you do is whine because at some point, somebody obviously reserved something you wanted. Too bad.
01/22/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Starman
01/22/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Taelus
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If you've never been on a private server, why are you pretending to know anything about them? There's only two servers that have ever had that kind of population, Nostraiius and Lights Hope (which stole it's user database from Elysium and then invited literally 3k or so chinese gold sellers to the server). The server I play on caps around 6k on weekends, is usually around 4k or so which is more in line with later official servers.

Most of the popular servers have 1x XP gains, meaning experience gains are the same as originally designed. Some "fun servers" have XP multipliers like x4 or x6 but they are not nearly as popular.

Itemization differences are an issue with some servers (Kronos, I'm looking at you) but the Nost/Ely core in common use now comes pretty darned close to being accurate. I will say that I've noticed higher drop rates on quest items though, which is bothersome but considering the staggering amount of data that needs to be recreated for private server databases, it's not a big thing.

As far as reserves go...did you actually play vanilla? Reserves were common as hell, especially in guild runs that just needed one or two pugs to flesh out a group. No guild in their right mind would pull in a pug for MC and then let him roll on a binding, for example. And even in 5 mans, the MT or MH would usually reserve important items, and in MANY cases, simply wouldn't allow anyone who might compete for that item into the group.


I already stated the reserves didn't happen on Whisperwind. We had the 1/1/1 rule.

Yes they did. Eveyone had NbG, but reserves were a necessary part of pug padding.
In the unlikely event that Classic sustains overwhelming gains, especially if this can be observed to be occurring at a 1:1 rate concerning Classic and Legion/BfA totals, it will absolutely have an impact on game design going forward.

All of that seems like pipedream territory to me, though. I think Classic will outperform expectations, but nowhere near unseating Live/Retail.
"Will retail affect Classic" is what I'm scared about.
Fixed that for you
I think this is the exact cause of people who are spazzing out over legacy. No, legacy is not going to hurt retail, people are worrying over nothing. Look, we know retail and WoW pre-cataclysm have absolutely nothing in common right? Okay, with that in mind, the game is different so it's gonna attract a new kind of player base that is interested in the new game. I don't necessarily mean new players, but whoever enjoys the current version of WoW is essentially the target audience for this new game. Those of us who no longer enjoy WoW as a result of those changes are no longer retails target playerbase.

We're essentially two completely different playerbases who enjoy different games. Now there are people that enjoy both it's not 100% black and white, but for the most part those who enjoy retail will be staying on retail. I'm playing D3 right now and usually any time I log onto a bnet, I have maybe 5 friends in total who still play WoW regularly still. Those 5 friends have told me they're not interested in WoW classic. Most of them have been playing since before Cataclysm as well, but the point is those who are playing retail are highly likely to keep playing.
01/22/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Vanbracken

Have you played a classic server lately? It's a delicious experience.


This.

This right here.
01/22/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Taelus
01/22/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Starman
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I already stated the reserves didn't happen on Whisperwind. We had the 1/1/1 rule.

Yes they did. Eveyone had NbG, but reserves were a necessary part of pug padding.


nbg? not sure what that is.

if it's primarily a guild run with a couple pugs here and there thats one thing - or if you're asking a tank to run you through an instance. But if it's a true pug and you have reserves, that's just lame. I mean, people on Nostalrius were reserving loot in shadowfang keep already.

it's just a lesser form of self-entitlement that is currently in retail.
Nbg need before greed
01/22/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Taelus
01/22/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Starman
...

I already stated the reserves didn't happen on Whisperwind. We had the 1/1/1 rule.

Yes they did. Eveyone had NbG, but reserves were a necessary part of pug padding.


Well, again, not on Whisperwind. Sorry.
01/22/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Xanthak
I can almost guarantee you Classic will come nowhere to the numbers retail pulls in. Different times. Different expectations. Different audience.


I think people with your opinion will be surprised. There was more hype surrounding classic at Blizzcon(and on social media/internet) then there was hype for an upcoming expansion. And I think that says a lot. I mean, it sort of goes with the territory considering this is something people have asked for for the last decade and been repeatedly told no, but now that's changed and it's coming.

The question will be how well Blizzard markets classic. If they give it a advertising campaign in the first place. There's plenty of people who stopped playing WoW years ago and are no longer paying attention to Blizzard news, but if they knew vanilla WoW was going to be returning, they'd drop whatever games they're playing and come back to WoW exclusively for classic. There's potentially millions of people out there that are fans of classic. Both people who know about the announcement, and those that don't know it was even announced. Will Blizzard do a full on advertising blitz for classic? TV commercials and everything? Even without a full on advertising blitz I think there is clear potential for Classic to garner millions of players. Whether they stick around for any length of time is another question. It's not like the private server community is any kind of true representation of the classic WoW fanbase. People playing vanilla on private servers make up a tiny minuscule fraction of people who enjoyed and would love to play vanilla WoW again. There's more people who don't like the idea of playing on private servers and thus don't...compared to those that do play on them. A lot more.

And not for nothing, but no one knows how classic will compare to retail because Blizzard no longer releases their subscription numbers. I don't think subscriptions miraculously shot back up due to legion either. Maybe it got an initial bump for it's release like most expansions get, but the downward trend has been steady for a number of years now. And it's not just because people are getting older or getting bored of the game. That's part of it, but not all of it.
01/23/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Asheris
01/22/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Xanthak
I can almost guarantee you Classic will come nowhere to the numbers retail pulls in. Different times. Different expectations. Different audience.


I think people with your opinion will be surprised. There was more hype surrounding classic at Blizzcon(and on social media/internet) then there was hype for an upcoming expansion. And I think that says a lot. I mean, it sort of goes with the territory considering this is something people have asked for for the last decade and been repeatedly told no, but now that's changed and it's coming.

The question will be how well Blizzard markets classic. If they give it a advertising campaign in the first place. There's plenty of people who stopped playing WoW years ago and are no longer paying attention to Blizzard news, but if they knew vanilla WoW was going to be returning, they'd drop whatever games they're playing and come back to WoW exclusively for classic. There's potentially millions of people out there that are fans of classic. Both people who know about the announcement, and those that don't know it was even announced. Will Blizzard do a full on advertising blitz for classic? TV commercials and everything? Even without a full on advertising blitz I think there is clear potential for Classic to garner millions of players. Whether they stick around for any length of time is another question. It's not like the private server community is any kind of true representation of the classic WoW fanbase. People playing vanilla on private servers make up a tiny minuscule fraction of people who enjoyed and would love to play vanilla WoW again. There's more people who don't like the idea of playing on private servers and thus don't...compared to those that do play on them. A lot more.

And not for nothing, but no one knows how classic will compare to retail because Blizzard no longer releases their subscription numbers. I don't think subscriptions miraculously shot back up due to legion either. Maybe it got an initial bump for it's release like most expansions get, but the downward trend has been steady for a number of years now. And it's not just because people are getting older or getting bored of the game. That's part of it, but not all of it.


Well, i'm hoping for the best. I'm sure there will be an initial surge of people playing Vanilla, but I don't know how long it will last. One thing that someone on here said though that made me re-think it is that, Vanilla will give retail players something to do, even if just dabbling, during "dead" period of retail where people would normally unsub for a couple months.

But logically, my head goes back to the whole demographic argument. The dominant age group in Vanilla was mid 20s, 30s +. People with disposable income and were old enough to play the RTS games (which weren't easy) that Blizzard came out with. I really don't know how many people have the time to play games period. I know i don't. And everyone else that i know that played don't. Kids, family, jobs, etc.

Also, my mind is thinking that LoL and Dota are now the most popular games. We also now have mobile games on phones. Back in the day PC games were THE thing - and Blizz was THE gaming company. Not so much these days. If anything the PC gaming industry is dying.

Blizz didn't exactly advertise starcraft remastered a whole lot. Granted it was mostly for South Korea, but still - not much here.
01/22/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Starman
If reserves happen in Classic, it's going to be a serious problem. And you KNOW that certain people in the WoW community like to push their agendas.


Form your own group instead of joining one ding dong.
01/22/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Savax
01/22/2018 11:22 AMPosted by Xanthak
I can almost guarantee you Classic will come nowhere to the numbers retail pulls in. Different times. Different expectations. Different audience.


I disagree. The only question is if Classic can hold the huge number of returning players after 3-6 months.


I'm sure it will for the targets if it's an authentic representation of vanilla. The tourists are a wild card, I'm sure some will but how many and if they will prefer it over BfA is a tough call to make.
01/22/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Nakadashi
"Will retail affect Classic" is what I care about.

THIS.

I don't want any of these changes that have come in the name of "quality of life" fixes that ended up destroying the game. LFG/LFR and Arena (funny coming from someone who's done as much arena as I have) totally obliterated the "I know everyone on my realm, and they know me" feeling. Now realms are more or less a virtual game lobby while we wait in queue.

And, so help me God, if they include things like WoW token, in-game Store, etc. etc. and the Activision side of Blizzard starts rearing its ugly head... I'm out for good.
Highly doubt it. People can't be losing in a BG without quitting. Opposing team gains the advantage on the kick-off and someone leaves. They can't even stay in a 15min raid if they only need the first or second kill.

They start the expansion off with no flying in the new zone...rivers full of tears.
Blizzard eventually added two achievement lines to obtain flying...the grind for it wasn't even bad and it's account wide, but the rivers remained overflowing.

7.3.5 made leveling harder and these fools are mad about that.

You know why 'reserves" wasn't normal for Vanilla? Because when you wanted something on reserve; you didn't invite the competition. They just didn't say it in the advertisement.
From the looks of recent nerfs to personal loot, old dungeon run speed- they're already doing it.

I love retail WoW, I loved Classic, I will play both- don't mix the two up Blizz, I don't want to see either seep into the other.
01/23/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Augustane
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I disagree. The only question is if Classic can hold the huge number of returning players after 3-6 months.


I'm sure it will for the targets if it's an authentic representation of vanilla. The tourists are a wild card, I'm sure some will but how many and if they will prefer it over BfA is a tough call to make.


Some of my old guilds are still around - the younger folks being a little older. And the older folks mostly quit, but some still around. They'll most likely dabble in Vanilla, but not play it a lot due to time constraints. Retail fits their schedule better.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that a lot of old Vanilla players playing retail now won't really come back either - mainly because of time. Which then leads into my whole demographic argument in Vanilla on why it was so popular. The dominant demographic in Vanilla and TBC had the time and funds to play. As time went on, people dropped off due to time and real life.
...

I'm sure it will for the targets if it's an authentic representation of vanilla. The tourists are a wild card, I'm sure some will but how many and if they will prefer it over BfA is a tough call to make.


Some of my old guilds are still around - the younger folks being a little older. And the older folks mostly quit, but some still around. They'll most likely dabble in Vanilla, but not play it a lot due to time constraints. Retail fits their schedule better.

In fact, I'm willing to bet that a lot of old Vanilla players playing retail now won't really come back either - mainly because of time. Which then leads into my whole demographic argument in Vanilla on why it was so popular. The dominant demographic in Vanilla and TBC had the time and funds to play. As time went on, people dropped off due to time and real life.


Exactly this. It's an aspect to MMO gaming back then that a lot of people ignore. Sure you can talk about CRZ or LFD/R/G and cross-realm as much as you want, but age has a lot to do with how games change.

Not related to WoW, but look at what gaming was like in the PS1/PS2/N64/DC days. Lots of really creative games and now....not nearly as much. The whole gaming landscape has changed. Getting anyone to come into an MMO has to be a challenge today.

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