Tin foil hat thread: why classic?

Classic Discussion
In the past, the previous Dev team stated that if the could go back in time, there would be a lot of things they would have done differently.
This got me thinking

What are the chances that current live will basically become the Facebook game of MMOs(it practically already is),and classic will evolve and continue on to be a true old school MMO experience, that only classic was?
Decisions mattered
Harsh game world
COMMUNITY
True dungeon crawls
Server renown
Having to live in the game world, not a city.
Class identity.

These are all things that don't exist in live, but they were core to Classic.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that's why classic is being brought back. They couldn't put the genie back in the bottle with live, so what's the next best thing?

A reboot while keeping live online for those who are happy with it.
Classic might just end up having a bigger dev team, and be considered the true MMO project.
Personally I doubt this. Classic isn't intended to be a reboot headed in a different direction so much as a recreation of the original experience.

01/16/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Mordegast
In the past, the previous Dev team stated that if the could go back in time, there would be a lot of things they would have done differently.

Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to look back and say "here's where this thing went wrong" and "here's what I should have done", but there's no guarantee doing things differently would have led to a desirable outcome.
100% agree with Eilethalua. I don't see them trying to take classic into the future and turn it into something new, or like making that their main focus. At best, they decide to recapture that era of the game from Vanilla to Wrath, and open expansion servers in the future if Classic is a smashing success. Vanilla to Wrath was the most popular era of the game. It's most people's favorites. I think they'll want to preserve all of it if possible, but only if there's broad appeal and demand for it later on. It has to be worth their time.

So maybe a couple years down the road, they open a server that's TBC enabled. And then a couple years after that, they open up a server that's wrath enabled. But I don't see them going beyond that...and it could be a big stretch that they'll do any expansions at all, and that preserving vanilla is the only objective of classic. Then again, they told us NO on vanilla servers for 10 years and then to everyone's shock, they turned around and announced Classic. There's no way of knowing the same won't happen w/ regard to expansion servers. We just don't know. The popularity of Classic will be a good barometer for that.
Though it truly pains me to disagree, OP, I just dont think you are right. We couldn't be that lucky.

However... one thing that Classic is going to do, is help set the direction of future Blizzard MMO's. Yes, they have recently stated they are still interested in new properties in the MMO space.

If we can show Blizz how much we enjoy the challenge of original Classic, it could help them make design decisions down the road.
01/16/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Mordegast
Having to live in the game world, not a city.


I noticed this in Cata, even made a thread about it back then. People will not leave the cities if they have no reason.
Of course I don't expect to see that in Classic because there will be no Dungeon finder or Raid finder tools in Classic.
01/16/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Mordegast
In the past, the previous Dev team stated that if the could go back in time, there would be a lot of things they would have done differently.
This got me thinking

What are the chances that current live will basically become the Facebook game of MMOs(it practically already is),and classic will evolve and continue on to be a true old school MMO experience, that only classic was?
Decisions mattered
Harsh game world
COMMUNITY
True dungeon crawls
Server renown
Having to live in the game world, not a city.
Class identity.

These are all things that don't exist in live, but they were core to Classic.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that's why classic is being brought back. They couldn't put the genie back in the bottle with live, so what's the next best thing?

A reboot while keeping live online for those who are happy with it.
Classic might just end up having a bigger dev team, and be considered the true MMO project.
this isn't an original idea. People have suggested this when classic was announced. Why does it matter? We can change it? Are you hoping to say later look I predicted this?
its happening for two reasons:

1. the demand
2.they screwed up retail

/thread
01/16/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Mordegast
In the past, the previous Dev team stated that if the could go back in time, there would be a lot of things they would have done differently.
This got me thinking

What are the chances that current live will basically become the Facebook game of MMOs(it practically already is),and classic will evolve and continue on to be a true old school MMO experience, that only classic was?
Decisions mattered
Harsh game world
COMMUNITY
True dungeon crawls
Server renown
Having to live in the game world, not a city.
Class identity.

These are all things that don't exist in live, but they were core to Classic.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that's why classic is being brought back. They couldn't put the genie back in the bottle with live, so what's the next best thing?

A reboot while keeping live online for those who are happy with it.
Classic might just end up having a bigger dev team, and be considered the true MMO project.


Not even close, it is being done because they need subscribers, otherwise they would have just ignored the request as they have done in the past.
01/16/2018 09:31 AMPosted by Bloodwisper
I noticed this in Cata, even made a thread about it back then. People will not leave the cities if they have no reason.

Back in the day, the vast amount of gameplay was trapped in the cities.

If you wanted to actually advance the character, the way to do that was through gear. And the only way to get gear was to run 5 mans and raids. And the only way to get in to those, especially ad hoc ones, was to sit around in the cities spamming LFG in chat.

So, for many, the entire game play experience was either in town doing LFG, or in transit and in instances.

Far fewer folks were actually bothering to run out in to the world to farm mats, farm gold, farm anything, as the world offered little to the mainstream player that wanted to grow their character. There were always farmers out in the world, but that was edge case gameplay.

The LFD tool freed folks from the tyranny of the cities. Most players truly don't care who they group with at the meta level (beyond "No jerks please"), so the combination of just "queuing up" and being able to travel freely, without care until the queue pops basically enabled folks to run out in to the world.

Combined with the additions of the dailies, World Quests, things like rep and currency farming, plus rare spawns and achieves related to such things, all drove folks out in to the world. The LFD were a bonus letting folks do two things at once. Incremental progress things (like rep farming) and advancing the character directly (through the gear hunt via dungeon runs).

Vanilla offered little of that. We had the BG Queues (which I leveraged by queueing back up immediately after a BG, and then heading out of get some opportunistic soul shards). Folks needs to do some farming for raiding and such, but even much of that was in dungeons, not out in the world.

My toon farmed a lot of gold, but it was almost exclusively in solo dungeons.

So, for many, the cities were "the place to be" and not much else. That was the end game. Now, in those terms, we're much better off. I don't see a lot of folks in the cities at all anymore.

Edit: Actually, I want to qualify something, as in re-reading this I simply presented lots of "reasons" folks in the modern game have to leave the cities, and your point was "...for no reason".

That's simply a fact of WoW. Many players don't Sandbox WoW. There's not there to sniff the flowers, pet the critters, set up picnics in meadows. They're there to kill stuff and get better at killing stuff. The constant drone of "content drought" and "nothing to do" mostly means "I've killed everything at least once, and if it doesn't drop gear, I'm not going to do it". The complaints about time gates, rep grinds, etc.

There's social elements to the game, but even that doesn't require the game any more. You can use the Battle Net chat while not logged in. Lots of guilds and what not use external forums for an expanded social interaction (Facebook, discord, etc.). So, while WoW was the establishing factor, if you just want to "hang out with friends", you don't need that any more.

So, folks will always "need a reason" not just to leave the city, but to log in at all. And for most folks, that reason is empowering their character for better mob bonking, or going after an achievement for its own sake or some cosmetic (mount, transmog, etc.).
We need to get J.J. Abrams on board as the director of WoW: Classic.
The meat of your post.

01/16/2018 09:12 AMPosted by Mordegast
What are the chances that current live will basically become the Facebook game of MMOs(it practically already is),and classic will evolve and continue on to be a true old school MMO experience, that only classic was?


It actually has the potential to go this direction simply because the two games are VERY different and the people who typically enjoy games like Vanilla do not enjoy games like Legion; the inverse is also true.

Because of this really basic fact, its logical to assume blizzard will attempt to expand its player base yet again. What better way to do that then to simply provide very different gaming experiences in the "warcraft universe".
01/16/2018 12:06 PMPosted by Karros
We need to get J.J. Abrams on board as the director of WoW: Classic.
I don't think any one video game can handle that much lens flare.
01/16/2018 10:52 AMPosted by Blázè
its happening for two reasons:

1. the demand
2.they screwed up retail

/thread

The whole classic announcement is a big eating crow feast.
01/16/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Piddy
And the only way to get in to those, especially ad hoc ones, was to sit around in the cities spamming LFG in chat.


This isn't quite true. Yeah, it was a good idea to have one person sitting in a city looking for people there but if that's all you were doing no wonder people thought it was hard to put groups together.
Ask in guild, ask your friends list, go out to the zones in the level range for the dungeon you're going to run and ask there, ask in the zone the dungeon is in. /join lookingforgroup. If all else fails /who the level range and start whispering people. Sitting in IF/Org spamming trade was just one way to find people.
OP, as much as I would love to see this happen, I doubt it will. If classic turns out to be, like, just a raging success, then we'll probably get expansion servers, but even then, I don't know if Blizz would be able to justify rebooting WoW with current game assets vs using revenue on other projects entirely.

I would absolutely love to see all the expansions follow a more vanilla-esque model, though. It would take a lot of work, especially wrath and beyond, but I think it'd be awesome.
01/16/2018 09:22 AMPosted by Asheris
There's no way of knowing the same won't happen w/ regard to expansion servers. We just don't know. The popularity of Classic will be a good barometer for that.


Well it's a safe bet that if Vanilla servers prove popular (and I personally think they will eventually exceed live in popularity) then Blizz will be looking for ways to capitalize on this.
I like TBC more, but i won't for a second complain about Vanilla launch. TBC had its flaws and so did vanilla for me.

I will be attempting to get my R14 weapon when the honor system gets thrown in, and farming Sulfuras and eventually dark edge on a Shaman. I can't wait to play Vanilla with under 200 latency. Maybe i can kick and juke properly. Also, there won't be Chinese players with kick bots and un-hittable hit boxes in melee range.

The only thing that will ruin Vanilla launch by Blizzard for me is botters, hackers, and a non-vanilla content experience. I got tired enough of the Honorbuddy kick botting in WOD and Legion that blizzard seemed to turn a blind eye to. I wrote down names of people I reported for kick botting they still had a live activity feed for weeks after. Don't even get me started on the Rated BG shenanigans. People fly hacking across the map capping flags past 2k rating. Jesus christ.
IHonorbuddy kick botting
Pardon this long absent former player’s ignorance, but what the hell is this????
Blizz is throwing it out to try and recover their lost subs. They know it will cover costs already from the PS population that will be forced to live at their shutdown when it launches. If it is wildly successful (which it likely will), it could go a few ways... they could just leave it as is, open a TBC and WOTLK servers (their only expansions that didn't lose them subs), or try to expand WOW again (the correct way) with horizontal expansions (albeit this would be difficult... there is already so much raid content other than making more difficult content you need to have aq40/NAXX gear for (so less than 0.1% will ever see) if they go parallel difficulty to BWL (the majority of where players were) you start running out of raid nights...

TBC released without lvl cap increase, kara as a 20 man and rest as 40s, instance 'hubs' released as single sprawling instances with skippable areas, no daily quests and new instance & raid sets (designed for under represented class specs), no pvp specific stats or sets would be ideal IMO, what TBC should of been....

None of this matters though, cause it's all dependent on the success of vanilla

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