Changes to Recruit-A-Friend

General Discussion
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01/23/2018 11:17 AMPosted by Hongo

Me. I asked.

Then remove your heirlooms. And go play Vanilla when it’s live.
01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx
but if leveling is too slow, we’d rather address that in the game itself than have Refer-A-Friend be some kind of bizarre workaround to an outstanding issue.


I can agree to this. RaF'ing yourself always felt silly.

That being said I can tell you definitively that it feels slow. Even prior to this patch it felt slow, when your doing it for the Nth time.

If I were you guys (Blizzard) - start with a number that feels right for overall amount of hours to cap. Then math out how long each level should take. Remember there are about to be 120 of them.

Even if you start counting from level 30 only. That is still 90 levels to go. Assume 30 minutes a piece (takes much longer than that) that's still 45 hours! Then ask, how many hours does the average player play a night? That gives you how many days (if you prefer that metric).

Also your argument is a bit convoluted.

Leveling should not be cheapened for new players - but we hand out a free boost with each expac? Which is it?
01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx
We’ve been happy with the changes so far


Leveling has been a hotmess since the patch. The balance isn't there for quest/mob/dungeon xp still. Some areas too much too fast others you are left farming mobs like it is South Park. If this is something to be happy about we have a rather large disconnect between Blizzard and players right now. The PTR forums were littered with comments that the scaling was off, yet it went live. Where is that Blizzard we don't release it until it is ready attitude?
"but if leveling is too slow, we’d rather address that in the game itself" this is important, they should add an option to leveling alts faster without having to buy a boost, like if you already have 1 character max level, increase experience on alts by 50%, make this option toggleable for those that want to level slower, they should increase the experience by 25% or 50% for every max level character you have, with every new expansion and the increase in max leveling, this bonus experience reset so you have to level your main and alts to max level again to get this bonus, sounds like a good idea for veterans who have already lots of alts and the toggleable option for those who want to see all the content again, but there are many who have done the same quests and dungeons at least 4 or 5 times, some more than 10 times and they don't want to do them all over again! If quests changed from class to class that would be a different story but also asking for too much :/

If you think this method can stack too much bonus experience, then add a max at around 200-300% bonus experience.
01/23/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Bombero
Where is that Blizzard we don't release it until it is ready attitude?

Here's the thing. As far as Blizzard was concerned, it was ready as soon as they wrote it down. It was ready before it was even on the PTR. The PTR was just a facade so that players would think that their voices were heard and their opinions were valued.

Blizzard planned and decided to put these changes into the game, and decided they were ready without any player feedback, because these changes help pad their metrics and push $60 level boosts. Our opinions as players were never valued and never taken into consideration, and they won't be.
01/23/2018 11:32 AMPosted by Beroeseb
01/23/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Bombero
Where is that Blizzard we don't release it until it is ready attitude?

Here's the thing. As far as Blizzard was concerned, it was ready as soon as they wrote it down. It was ready before it was even on the PTR. The PTR was just a facade so that players would think that their voices were heard and their opinions were valued.

Blizzard planned and decided to put these changes into the game, and decided they were ready without any player feedback, because these changes help pad their metrics and push $60 level boosts. Our opinions as players were never valued and never taken into consideration, and they won't be.


You're exaggerating heavily. I don't like what's going on here personally, but I don't think we're completely 100% disregarded.
01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx
Thanks for the feedback and thoughts so far.

The Refer-A-Friend system is intended as an option for players who want to invite a friend to play WoW with them and experience the game together. When it was first introduced, we gave it a hefty bonus to experience gain as a way for both players to reach endgame content as quickly as possible.



Yes. This was the point, this is a good start now let's see if we can keep the trend going.

01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx

Nowadays, purchasing the latest WoW expansion includes a free character boost, so the need to rush your friend to max level is no longer there; you can jump into the latest content with your friend right away. This meant that the only players who were using the Refer-A-Friend system in its intended way – leveling alongside their friend – were those who had decided that they wanted to experience that content together. We realized that, for those players, the 300% XP bonus was a disservice; we were cutting that shared experience short by making them finish it far too quickly.


I'm sorry, what? The point of RaF as you stated previously in your post was so that people could level with each other (assuming RaF is used with a friend) how is the XP a disservice when all content that isn't current (vanilla to Warlord of Draenor) is dead. This makes no sense as you are trying to force people through dead content when the entire purpose of RaF was to be able to level quickly up to current content with friends.

The whole "Nowadays, purchasing the latest WoW expansion includes a free character boost, so the need to rush your friend to max level is no longer there" is complete and utter tripe. Yes it helps for 1 character but it's essentially doing the disservice that you said leveling with the previous RaF XP rates are. You are contradicting yourself especially while Blizzard continues to try and sell a $60 boost to level 100. The price of a triple A game. (Let's keep this in mind)

01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx

Now, we certainly recognize that the majority of people using the Refer-A-Friend system before these changes were doing so in order to level alts quickly. If anything, we take that as a strong indication that the system needed to change: the best method to level a character in WoW shouldn’t be “buy a new copy of the game, put it on a separate account, send it a Refer-A-Friend invite, level a new character, and then transfer that character to your primary account when you’re finished.” That’s messy, at best.


I wonder why it's messy mate? Maybe because heirlooms are basically nerfed into non-existence nearly every patch (hyperbole) due to demands from the vocal minority. Maybe it's the fact that these people DON'T have to use heirlooms if they don't want to but ruin the experience for people who DON'T want leveling to be more like classic.

There's also the fact that the XP gain only get's really high when people are using heirlooms plus RaF. Most people who do RaF with friends just for the leveling experience usually aren't people who have all the heirlooms for every class.

01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx

That said, we’re certainly taking the feedback about the rate of leveling alts into account as we move forward with the game’s development. We’ve been happy with the changes so far, but if leveling is too slow, we’d rather address that in the game itself than have Refer-A-Friend be some kind of bizarre workaround to an outstanding issue.


I'm sorry but I really doubt this. I mentioned previously on your article's comment section (please refer to it if you need to) that all you're doing with this change to the system is dissuading people from wanting to use the system to level with friends, I mean honestly now that it's practically nerfed into non-existence what possible reasons would I meaning the community who uses this feature (a new player, or a returning veteran, or someone looking to level alts) want to use this system anymore. What you're doing is not going to make your company more money by not so subtlety pushing us towards the $60 boost. It's just making people anxious and or unwilling to do it out of pure spite.

If you and your company were truly serious about this issue there wouldn't be a level boost in the store, there wouldn't be nerfs to a system that was fine for YEARS, before you (meaning the company) decided to push more and more micro-transactions towards us.

I highly doubt this will happen but as a show of good faith to the community if you're really going to persist down this path of tripe remove the level 100 boost. Saying that way we/they will "find themselves [ourselves] overwhelmed by multiple new abilities gained over the course of a single instance run" which again is kind of tripe when you're selling a boost that offers a five minute tutorial on how to use a couple of skills only to dump a bunch of them after it's done on the player compared to this which allows players to use them in a more active environment.

Please don't push your "sense of pride and accomplishment" onto us. We would appreciate that, actually let your players have some input into what happens into the game otherwise things like this will happen and an angry community does not make for a fun time.

Please please please, remove these changes,

Yours faithfully,

Laannal.
I'm just gonna echo a lot of posters and say that giving options is best. Increasing loom xp (so a person can customize their experience based on how many pieces they wear) or FFXIV style "the more you've leveled, the bigger your bonus gets".

The former probably fits what Blizzards current goals more than the latter with all the recent changes and also gives a new player that doesn't care about "the leveling experience" the ability to be given a chunk of gold from a friend so they can get the classes they want at max level sooner. Someone who might be familiar with mmos and endgame in general and that is where they want to be.

The latter method would be better for someone like me where I've played for 13 years and I just really want a monk or one of the few remaining classes at 110 that I've slacked on leveling so I can unlock things like balance of power or mage tower appearances before the expansions over.
01/23/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Ultimaxius
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Here's the thing. As far as Blizzard was concerned, it was ready as soon as they wrote it down. It was ready before it was even on the PTR. The PTR was just a facade so that players would think that their voices were heard and their opinions were valued.

Blizzard planned and decided to put these changes into the game, and decided they were ready without any player feedback, because these changes help pad their metrics and push $60 level boosts. Our opinions as players were never valued and never taken into consideration, and they won't be.


You're exaggerating heavily. I don't like what's going on here personally, but I don't think we're completely 100% disregarded.

So why, with people screaming at them in feedback on the PTR that things were broken and didn't feel good or right, did they let it go live without changing a single thing? Why did they do these RAF changes without any sort of player feedback if they value our feedback and us as players?
When will we see those EXP elixirs in the PTR shop become a thing?

While I'm against any of the "make combat easy again" or "revert level scaling" posts, I have nothing wrong with other players having faster routes to the end, while still experiencing the leveling content. Even if it nets them cosmetic armor on some toons.

A boost is the easiest, sure. But it appears that some actually enjoy the process, just that it's too slow.

Additional EXP items would be the easiest solution, I think. Especially since you can use both real money and gold. Blizzard gets more $$, players get their faster leveling. win/win
01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx
its intended way – leveling alongside their friend


you are continuing to make no sense, this is just sad at this point.

If someone wants to level alongside a friend new player they can simply not activate the RAF option. if the pace is still too fast they can remove heirlooms or start taking gear off or RP walk instead of flying or go to the NPC that stops XP gain.

You are removing the last remaining option to level alts (relatively) quickly right before the expansion where leveling numerous alts from lvl 1 to 120 is going to become a key part of the gameplay, actually the major part of the expansion content period.

You are doing this to sell more of the $60 level boosts, and no amount of PR doublespeak is going to hide that. every single made-up "problem" with the 300% XP has been around since the day RAF was introduced, and has one person complained yet, seriously?
01/23/2018 11:37 AMPosted by Yuda
When will we see those EXP elixirs in the PTR shop become a thing?

While I'm against any of the "make combat easy again" or "revert level scaling" posts, I have nothing wrong with other players having faster routes to the end, while still experiencing the leveling content. Even if it nets them cosmetic armor on some toons.

A boost is the easiest, sure. But it appears that some actually enjoy the process, just that it's too slow.

Additional EXP items would be the easiest solution, I think. Especially since you can use both real money and gold. Blizzard gets more $$, players get their faster leveling. win/win

So your solution to people complaining that leveling is too slow and that these changes are just a cash grab to sell level boosts is to...add yet another cash grab?

Wowee! You'd fit right in if you worked at Blizzard!
01/23/2018 10:45 AMPosted by Ornyx
That said, we’re certainly taking the feedback about the rate of leveling alts into account as we move forward with the game’s development. We’ve been happy with the changes so far, but if leveling is too slow, we’d rather address that in the game itself than have Refer-A-Friend be some kind of bizarre workaround to an outstanding issue.

Buff heirloom XP bonuses and make XP pots available again.
I'm calling it now - Heirloom Belts, Bracers and Gloves in the cash shop.

Calling it now.
They best way is buff the the exp the looms give so all those ppl that want slow level can just don’t bother with the nerf looms
01/23/2018 11:44 AMPosted by Rankin
make XP pots available again.

Sure thing friend! They'll make XP pots purchasable from a brand new vendor in game just for all the players who want to level fast. For just $5, you'll be able to buy a token that lets you buy an XP potion! $15 and you can buy a bundle of 5 XP potions!
01/23/2018 11:41 AMPosted by Beroeseb
So your solution to people complaining that leveling is too slow and that these changes are just a cash grab to sell level boosts is to...add yet another cash grab?

Wowee! You'd fit right in if you worked at Blizzard!


Hard to complain about the Blizzard store, when you can use in game currency for everything. You can play this game and buy everything it has to offer with gold. What's wrong with another gold sink?

But I guess I'd fit in at Blizzard for not being whiny and entitled? I'll take that as a complement.

Thanks.

Oh.. BTW, you do realize that RAF requires buying another game, right? Most people were spending cash for both a separate account and a transfer at the end of the run. This would be a more frugal option, if you're so hard pressed for gold and money.
Since RAF is getting bludgeoned with a hammer, how about also offering the mounts/pets/etc from it separately in the store?

01/22/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Tánnin
Tin-foil hat moment:

Slowing down the leveling experience in order to make their $60 boost seem like the best way to level quickly. Nerfs heirlooms and RAF to ensure this. Sets up the possibility of later on making a paid heirloom system to gain more XP. Same with RAF.

Setting themselves up for a possible free to play in the future? Just a thought and only half serious.


Yeah, not sure about free2play but these changes do all seem to only be part of the changes coming to overall gameplay in BfA. It is entirely possible that the 'BIG PICTURE' scope makes more sense beyond the individual changes.
Blah blah blah. You RECOGNIZE that players want a fast way to level alts, that refer-a-friend filled that niche and you have replaced it with NOTHING but gibberish words.

The fact that it was used that way should tell you something about what a lot of players want and it is most definitely NOT slower leveling.

Changes to help the people with too much time on their hands are fine, but you've basically made leveling alts too much of a pain to bother with and most people are just not going to cough up your $60 price gouge.

Honestly, though I have plenty of alts, I enjoy making them or I did. You basically are killing any desire I have to play with all these ridiculous time sinks. It's not enough that we give your our money, now you have to suck away time in big and little increments constantly to pad some stupid metric for Wall Street.

We're not all stupid and the more of this crap you pull the more of us are going to get fed up.
I just find it stupid to not give an option to at least turn on faster leveling if you already have a max-level toon(or in my case, 6). I've seen ALL the quest text and done all the story lines. They are fun, but I don't want to have to slog through the same crap only slower due to XP nerfs and mob buffs.

The people who want difficult leveling can go play on the Vanilla server when it's released, or just level without heirlooms. Hell, the Ironman Challenge was a good idea - use all common gear to try to see how far you can go. Don't ruin it for everyone for the sake of your nostalgia.

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