How better was Class Design prior to Legion?

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Give me an example.

Say my Protection Paladin. Since from what I have seen, most people here claims that MOP was the pinnicle of Class Design?

How superior was the MOP Prot Pally compared to now?

And the funny thing is I should know because I played WOD in its entirty but I wasn't that great of a raider, back than, I played very casually and I mostly forgot.
I don't think it can be assumed that design was automatically better before legion.
01/16/2018 05:05 AMPosted by Akston
I don't think it can be assumed that design was automatically better before legion.


All I hear in these forums is that classes suck right now compared to back than and I never get a deeper explination.
Well, most fun I had playing my Lock was in MoP.
My Pally felt a lot more better back in Wrath.
We had more abilities, better rotations, and better mobility with a lot of classes.
10,000% for most specializations although some are fairly complete. I wouldn't say any are "better" just that some are close enough to before to not have glaring issues.

But you can't redesign every spec while introducing 2 new ones and completely changing 2 and expect everything to be successful.
better is subjective

it's pretty common opinion that it was better
almost every spell has 3 passives baked into it that all used to be active on use abilities

it's boring
before, you had to juggle 2 resources on most classes
snap shotted debuffs and then deal with mechanics

classes like affliction
literally

unstable > agony > corruption
ur corruption is perm
ur agony last 20 seconds
your unstable shard recharge happens randomly

you spend 75% of your time channeling drainsoul
literally
it's sad it feels empty

fire mages combust used to be based on how big your ignite was
you'd manage your procs well get bit pyros without wasting heating up
decide when to pull the trigger
hit combust
spread your combust and ignite with fire blast
it required thought
now combust is
"u have 100% crit for 8 seconds"
and ignite randomly spreads without an on use
you dont even have to think
it's brainless

holy paladins lost holy power which was just a second resource that made them unique healers
now holy paladin is literally just holy priest and resto shaman at the core
they're literally the exact same playstyle w/ a different theme
reskinned versions of the same spells
its awful

classes were gutted to make the game easier to understand for new players
but nobody actually enjoys it
you can pick up a new class and get top-10 ranks in a week w/ the right gear
not because you mastered the class but because it's so shallow

luckily celestalon was fired and after bfa classes might get rehauls
01/16/2018 05:02 AMPosted by Argronak
MOP was the pinnicle of Class Design

I could agree with that.
01/16/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Kristiara
01/16/2018 05:02 AMPosted by Argronak
MOP was the pinnicle of Class Design

I could agree with that.


Even though MOP was the expansion that dumbed down the Talents system from this:

https://bemop.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/wow_mage_talents1.jpg

To this:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/4/49/Talents_for_Paladins.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111023193122
01/16/2018 05:05 AMPosted by Akston
I don't think it can be assumed that design was automatically better before legion.


Hunter was.
01/16/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Argronak
Even though MOP was the expansion that dumbed down the Talents system from this:

https://bemop.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/wow_mage_talents1.jpg

To this:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/4/49/Talents_for_Paladins.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20111023193122


Oh, you've opened up a hornet's nest, son

All I will say is that the classes I play were the most fun in Wrath and in MoP. But my opinion isn't worth much, since I'm just a super-casual.
when class changes went live in the Legion pre patch I logged onto my warrior and she only had two spells left on the bar. just so you have an idea of how extensive some of the changes were.

I think the changes made some classes more fun to play and some less fun but they are ALL more simple meaning it is harder to tell when someone is playing their class well but it is also easier to pick up play style if you like playing a lot of alts.

good and bad things come from almost every change
01/16/2018 05:18 AMPosted by Kristiara
01/16/2018 05:02 AMPosted by Argronak
MOP was the pinnicle of Class Design

I could agree with that.
Ret pallies were in an awkward place in MoP tbh. Most classes were doing great but ret had that weird buff they had to juggle their whole rotation around. IMO WoD was great for Ret. They seriously needed to fine tune the seal dancing talent but other than that the class felt amazing.
have to go back a couple expansions to find real talent trees when people would have more unique trees and options

now its just the same builds everywhere, and they removed half the buttons
I don’t know prot Pali. But, BM hunter had actual cooldowns & an execute.

Aspect of the wild is such a useless CD that our t21 4-piece is a 20k+ dps loss over t20.

Stampede was one of the best dps CD’s in the game during MoP. Now it’s been relegated to a completely gutted talent that practically no one uses.

I could keep going, but I need to get to work.
01/16/2018 05:45 AMPosted by Enikka


Aspect of the wild is such a useless CD that our t21 4-piece is a 20k+ dps loss over t20.

[/quote]

Speak plainly to me, I am not a hardcore WOW gameplay nerd that understands every single lingo that looks like a mathematical equation.

t21 4 piece?
As an altaholic with 45 toons who has played everything at least on a superficial level, I can tell that IMHO MoP Demo was the best spec this game has ever seen.

It was an interesting 2-phases rotation where you would build resources on "Banner Phase" and roflstomp everything on "Hulk Phase".

It made me feel like a mini Raid Boss.

Nothing I've played since then compares.
Classes has both a more diverse and more flavorful toolset. Iconic abilities weren't readily locked behind specs. or, worse, PvP. Your spec. was a flavor of your class, not the end all, be all of your identity.

For diversity? Some specs. had internal diversity built in - 1h vs. 2h Fury and Frost. Weapon choice could upend the feel and flow of a spec within a class. There were even more diverse options than that - Protection Warriors had a DPS variant in Gladiator Stance.

Classes had more signature abilities and mechanics - Auras, Stances, Presences - effective "modes" that could give them specialized boots in and out of combat that, even if they didn't change the whole game, added to the sense that you were a Paladin, Warrior, or Death Knight separate from the other classes.

Some specs were straight up better in their entire execution and concept. Combat was better than this RNG enslaved Outlaw nonsense. A "melee hunter" isn't a spec. - it's a vanilla era punchline. And ask any Demonology Warlock what they think of their spec. now.

 

Ultimately, Legion's spec and class design is by far and wide a weak point. Abilities pruned, options lost, diversity squelched, and an entire expansion shackled to one single weapon.
01/16/2018 05:06 AMPosted by Argronak
01/16/2018 05:05 AMPosted by Akston
I don't think it can be assumed that design was automatically better before legion.


All I hear in these forums is that classes suck right now compared to back than and I never get a deeper explination.

There have been countless, in-depth, well-written and detailed posts for the past two years, ever since Beta dropped, from passionate players who care about the game.

To be fair, you (and apparently the Developers) may have just missed them. I've seen most of the best discussions in the Development forum and class specific forums (where ideas go to die). While I've seen quite a few here in GD, they tend to get buried fast.
smell a troll
01/16/2018 06:15 AMPosted by Degame
smell a troll


For your sake I swear to you I am not a troll.

I really want an explination.

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