The Thing About Flying, Why Not...?

General Discussion
...Give us flying and just make the world bigger?

What boggles my mind is that the art department does not seem to be hurting for funds at all.

In Pandaria, which was a huge, massive world, you would complete quests in ~about~ the same time as you do today on somewhere like Argus.

No one complained.

I was just in Pandaria the other day and it takes incredible amounts of time just to get from A to B.

Again, no one complained.

And I actually realise more than most that flying breaks the game. If you look carefully, you can see that the "kill one big enemy" World Quests are balanced around not having flying. They put these guys somewhat out of the way and if you actually hit a stopwatch, the travel time versus higher quest time of others, just about balances out.

So can we be honest about the no-flying thing being to slow people down? It helps the discussion to just be honest.

I don't mind. There's a certain pace at which we're allowed to consume content and it's to be expected in a subscription-based game.

But you have to realise, when we were just as slowed down, and the world was simply bigger, and we had flying, no one screamed, cried, or flopped around like a fish crying for water.

So if your art department has plenty of resources, and you can slow players down just as much with a bigger world and flying, and no one will be upset, doesn't it seem like a spiteful choice to deprive the players of something they enjoy for absolutely no reason?
02/07/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Aliandrin
...Give us flying and just make the world bigger?

What boggles my mind is that the art department does not seem to be hurting for funds at all.

In Pandaria, which was a huge, massive world, you would complete quests in ~about~ the same time as you do today on somewhere like Argus.

No one complained.

I was just in Pandaria the other day and it takes incredible amounts of time just to get from A to B.

Again, no one complained.

And I actually realise more than most that flying breaks the game. If you look carefully, you can see that the "kill one big enemy" World Quests are balanced around not having flying. They put these guys somewhat out of the way and if you actually hit a stopwatch, the travel time versus higher quest time of others, just about balances out.

So can we be honest about the no-flying thing being to slow people down? It helps the discussion to just be honest.

I don't mind. There's a certain pace at which we're allowed to consume content and it's to be expected in a subscription-based game.

But you have to realise, when we were just as slowed down, and the world was simply bigger, and we had flying, no one screamed, cried, or flopped around like a fish crying for water.

So if your art department has plenty of resources, and you can slow players down just as much with a bigger world and flying, and no one will be upset, doesn't it seem like a spiteful choice to deprive the players of something they enjoy for absolutely no reason?


not the same development team they were sent over from Diablo 3 which is by far not even the same kind of game design they were used to a 2d style setting which is more like the sims

I cant help but wonder is the current design changes being made due to a lack of ability or just merely a lack of desire on the part of the current team?
02/07/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Aliandrin
...Give us flying and just make the world bigger?

What boggles my mind is that the art department does not seem to be hurting for funds at all.

In Pandaria, which was a huge, massive world, you would complete quests in ~about~ the same time as you do today on somewhere like Argus.

No one complained.

I was just in Pandaria the other day and it takes incredible amounts of time just to get from A to B.

Again, no one complained.

And I actually realise more than most that flying breaks the game. If you look carefully, you can see that the "kill one big enemy" World Quests are balanced around not having flying. They put these guys somewhat out of the way and if you actually hit a stopwatch, the travel time versus higher quest time of others, just about balances out.

So can we be honest about the no-flying thing being to slow people down? It helps the discussion to just be honest.

I don't mind. There's a certain pace at which we're allowed to consume content and it's to be expected in a subscription-based game.

But you have to realise, when we were just as slowed down, and the world was simply bigger, and we had flying, no one screamed, cried, or flopped around like a fish crying for water.

So if your art department has plenty of resources, and you can slow players down just as much with a bigger world and flying, and no one will be upset, doesn't it seem like a spiteful choice to deprive the players of something they enjoy for absolutely no reason?


"just make the world bigger?"

If you said that to a developer face to face I'm sure they'd appreciate that question/comment
02/07/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Carnious

"just make the world bigger?"

If you said that to a developer face to face I'm sure they'd appreciate that question/comment


I think what he meant was less "put MORE effort in" than "please don't screw us on content and scale because you don't want to put the effort in you've put in previously"
02/07/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Carnious
"just make the world bigger?"

If you said that to a developer face to face I'm sure they'd appreciate that question/comment


They did it in Pandaria, and from the looks of it (as I already addressed) the art budget is not exactly shrinking.

Have you seen Suramar from above? That skyline is jaw-dropping. Someone poured their soul into that.

With just half of that same soul (warlocks, help me out plz) we could have a bigger world, which slows the players down just as much, and no one would complain about not being able to fly.
02/07/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Aliandrin
02/07/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Carnious
"just make the world bigger?"

If you said that to a developer face to face I'm sure they'd appreciate that question/comment


They did it in Pandaria, and from the looks of it (as I already addressed) the art budget is not exactly shrinking.

Have you seen Suramar from above? That skyline is jaw-dropping. Someone poured their soul into that.

With just half of that same soul (warlocks, help me out plz) we could have a bigger world, which slows the players down just as much, and no one would complain about not being able to fly.


I have a few shards I can spare, but I am saving cookies for those new animations.
02/07/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Aliandrin
02/07/2018 09:17 PMPosted by Carnious
"just make the world bigger?"

If you said that to a developer face to face I'm sure they'd appreciate that question/comment


They did it in Pandaria, and from the looks of it (as I already addressed) the art budget is not exactly shrinking.

Have you seen Suramar from above? That skyline is jaw-dropping. Someone poured their soul into that.

With just half of that same soul (warlocks, help me out plz) we could have a bigger world, which slows the players down just as much, and no one would complain about not being able to fly.


No because I only PvE and don't have flying. That whole area looks gorgeous though but I understand your point.
Honestly MoP was really great, they should have that islands scale replicated for BfA hopefully ? Idk
02/07/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Unïty
I have a few shards I can spare, but I am saving cookies for those new animations.


I am not asking this task of human or Worgen females.

I'm a vicious Blood Elf, but even I could not be that cruel.

You need new faces immediately. What is with those eyes? The old models looked really nice.
I have to admit I was against flight being put back in during WoD in any form but when I got pathfinder in legion by accident it really made things easier and im all for them getting rid of pathfinder and just let us buy it
Good to see some Pandaria love. And I agree. One of the great things about Mists of Pandaria is that it was actually able to embrace flying in a way that didn't make it feel too convenient or unfair. The world was big on purpose, you were supposed to fly, and I love that.
02/07/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Aliandrin
02/07/2018 09:56 PMPosted by Unïty
I have a few shards I can spare, but I am saving cookies for those new animations.


I am not asking this task of human or Worgen females.

I'm a vicious Blood Elf, but even I could not be that cruel.

You need new faces immediately. What is with those eyes? The old models looked really nice.


is this a better look?
but you still couldnt fly at the beginning of pandaria. like all expansions except cata
02/07/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Qiuthan
Good to see some Pandaria love. And I agree. One of the great things about Mists of Pandaria is that it was actually able to embrace flying in a way that didn't make it feel too convenient or unfair. The world was big on purpose, you were supposed to fly, and I love that.


Thank you.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

And when you went over the wall from the green, beautiful area into the wastes, it was just like... OMG... and it was an OMG you couldn't really get the sense of on the ground.

It's not about "LET ME GO FASTAH NOW NOW NOW I WANNA HELICOPTER QUEST!!!" it's about the way they're slowing us down.

If I get stuck on one more tree root I swear to Fel I will cover the world in Paladin entrails so we can slide around on the blasted tree roots like Mary Poppins on the banister. I mean, it's the Light. I assume that's what it would do.
02/07/2018 10:04 PMPosted by Hyacinthe
but you still couldnt fly at the beginning of pandaria. like all expansions except cata


No one is insisting on this. We want flying as soon as we hit max level.
Personally I think how they did it in Lich King was the best. You could just buy cold weather flying once you hit level 78. You could also buy the book which was BoA and send it to your level 70 alts.
02/07/2018 11:57 PMPosted by Zoya
Personally I think how they did it in Lich King was the best. You could just buy cold weather flying once you hit level 78. You could also buy the book which was BoA and send it to your level 70 alts.


Northrend was another big world.
02/07/2018 11:57 PMPosted by Zoya
Personally I think how they did it in Lich King was the best. You could just buy cold weather flying once you hit level 78. You could also buy the book which was BoA and send it to your level 70 alts.
There were also aerial threats in Northrend, much like in Outland. Why the devs didn't do more of that instead of Pathfinder is beyond me.
02/07/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Aliandrin
...Give us flying and just make the world bigger?

They haven't significantly decreased the size of the world after removing easy access to flying. Outland and Draenor are pretty close to the same size. Broken Isles is smaller, but that's more because of them cutting out Thal'Dranath in favor of Argus later on.
The thing with flying, is it seems to take away from the social interaction, it even keeps people from engaging in PvP.

The benefits of flying are it's convenience from A to Z, and nothing more.

Once upon a time flying was a challenge to get - that made flying worth it for end game content. It was a big deal.

Give everyone flying, and it's just not the same anymore.

And least we forget, this is an MMO RPG, there is suppose to be an element of RP in the game, which free-for-all flying robs the community of.
The people crying for flying aren't concerned about the survival or quality or what the game is meant to be - only their own convenience is what matters to them.

At the end of the day, no matter what we want, Blizzard shouldn't give us everything we want, if we want the best quality game, let Blizzard do Blizzard's own thing. They've always been a company that takes 10+ years to get a game right, and WoW is no exception (in fact it only proves that perhaps waiting for their final product would have been better for WoW in the grand scheme of things).

Just saying!

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