Why is Demonic circle not baseline?

Arenas
Prev 1 4 5 6
02/13/2018 04:39 PMPosted by Bertimus
02/13/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Xelnaz
Thanks for all the discussion guys and appreciate everyone keeping it civil.


Stay gold ponyboy


Thanks for the free post bumps!

Even more of a chance blizzard will notice this post and give us back demonic circle in BFA.
02/13/2018 05:29 PMPosted by Xelnaz
Even more of a chance blizzard will notice this post and give us back demonic circle in BFA.


Let's hope, with Unending Resolve back to 3 minute for Destro, and Affliction being well, Affliction, it is a necessary tool.
Bump

No sense in putting demonic circle on a cc tier in BfA

Just make it baseline blizzard
I'd happily give up Demonic Circle for Soul Link, but then the DH and WW class fantasy of one-shotting clothies would send them crying to the forums like in the Legion Beta.
Same reason Camo is also a talent :/, guess they have to fill these trees somehow.
02/18/2018 12:11 PMPosted by Griever
Same reason Camo is also a talent :/, guess they have to fill these trees somehow.


Yes but demonic circle was baseline since it's introduction into the game and it has been a core staple/iconic spell for survivability for Warlocks.

Camo on the other hand has not.

Nor is it on a talent tier where you're forced to sacrifice survivability for crowd control.

Our only baseline escape is on a 2 minute cd.

We need some counterplay options especially with unending resolve wall cd going back to 3 minutes in BFA.

If I had to pick circle or soul link baseline for all specs it would be circle.

The reason being is there is no skill cap in soul link it encourages you even more to stand in the open and face tank everything.

Soul link should be a talentable option to replace the empty slot demonic circle leaves behind.

If we feel we need the extra survivability spec into link.

Even some meaningful cc options for our cc tier would be nice.

Blood horror, Curse of exhastion, Demonic breath ect..

There is no skill cap in being a face tanking mongoloid. Though there is a skill cap in demonic circle usage.

It would be the equivalent of taking away blink on mage or disengage on hunter.
So lets hit a few points

1. You said you just want it to be baseline for bfa, but a lot of your arguements you are using are from the now so lets disregard that comment

2. “Eu and na are different metas”
Correct. However, buffing locks would make them utterly dominate EU

3. “All r1 glads agree”
Hi I’m r1
I don’t agree

4. Double destro is viable at 2700+. They aren’t just “viable” they are Op.

5. I think Hpal is part of the problem destro is so strong right now, but nothing can be done til bfa so w/e
02/18/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Mendî
However, buffing locks would make them utterly dominate EU


I'm not asking for lock buffs now, I'm certain I specified this is a change I would like to see in BFA and I have agreed it would make our current toolkits too powerful.

02/18/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Mendî
Double destro is viable at 2700+. They aren’t just “viable” they are Op.


How would you know if you're not above 2700?

Show me an example.

Anyone could say this about any class where's the proof?

02/18/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Mendî
“All r1 glads agree”
Hi I’m r1
I don’t agree


Appreciate the input,

How would you feel if blizzard removed all of your mobility so you have 0 baseline mobility unless talented into and in doing so you have to sacrifice cc or survivability?

Rhetorical question because nobody would enjoy this, I encourage you to play a Warlock just to see things through our eyes for a moment.

A tier for cc and survivability talents makes no sense. Even more so pruning a baseline feature since it's introduction into the game and turning it into a talent and trying to enforce Warlock's are the "tanky" caster when we're actually quite squishy.

I'd consider balance druid a caster, Yet they're far more tankier than a lock.

Do you know what happens to unending resolve when our artifact weapons are removed?

The cd goes back to 3 minutes.

I honestly don't feel like anything else needs to be said. With a 3 minute wall we need something back.

That needs to be demonic circle, We need some counterplay options especially considering we're so immobile.

You make destruction out to be so godly yet destruction representation was extremely limited in the tournaments.

Even as epic said Warlocks are used as gatekeepers, You can't say the same about monks especially when you can hop skip and jump around the map and still do just as much damage as a destruction Warlock.

Take the tournament and destructions representation as an example.

How many times did you see a chaos bolt in the tournament?

I can't remember 1. I'm not trying to defend destruction either.

Your defensive cd's are arguably better and the cc you have access to as part of your kit is far to excessive.

They're represented extremely well in tournament play/ladder play and aren't just "gatekeepers".

02/12/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Epícburn
no one wants to pick a class like warlock unless its a backup counter option because our effectiveness can be greatly effected by things as simple as the maps we get.


Here is another example. Monk has such absurd mobility it hardly matters what map you play on.

I quote "backup counter option".

Warlocks are backup counter options but we were once a class that never related to that statement.

We were never backup counterplay options in tournaments prior to legion and now we are.

That statement alone sends a strong message.
02/18/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Mendî
4. Double destro is viable at 2700+. They aren’t just “viable” they are Op.


More of a Legion issue than a warlock one. We've seen double ele and double Dh just because you can class stack into a disgusting comp doesn't mean it's the classes fault it's legions
02/18/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Jibbles
02/18/2018 06:56 PMPosted by Mendî
4. Double destro is viable at 2700+. They aren’t just “viable” they are Op.


More of a Legion issue than a warlock one. We've seen double ele and double Dh just because you can class stack into a disgusting comp doesn't mean it's the classes fault it's legions


Triple dh... double ele with a Resto sham lol... double lock... double dk.. prot Pallys... yea legion is full of memes.
Yeah I actually find it disgusting.

I was told double Dh got 3k+ in s4/5 of leg or whatever it was.

And someone I q’ed with told me they were gonna play double dh in the cup. I was so confused cuz class stacking was never allowed and now it is. It should never be viable.

I just pointed out locks because that is the base of the thread.

@Xelnaz I mentioned it because you’re talking about the low representation of locks in tourneys NOW. Can’t really talk about bfa since its still in alpha.
Also I’ve been up to 2650 this season, it was absterge and 2 locks I don’t remember.

As for the point you keep bringing up about removed abilities, I understand what you’re saying.
Blizzard took away lock mobility because it was to crazy and they took away mage dmg reduc because they had so much mobility.

Either be tanky and immobile or mobile and squishy.

I already said I agree, I’m down for afflic to have it.
I don’t think demo needs it, they just need a buff in some other regard, I personally don’t know where.

Destro does not.
I do not care if destro has no place in a tourney setting. No reason to base a class around a style of play that only 30 people get to experience. Live ladder is what matters, and in live ladder Destro is arguably tied with arcane for being the strongest caster.

And if you want to use the arguement of “There was no destro representation in the Na cup” there were no MW’s either. I don’t think mw needs a buff, they need a rework, but again, wait to see what will happen in bfa.


@Xelnaz I mentioned it because you’re talking about the low representation of locks in tourneys NOW. Can’t really talk about bfa since its still in alpha.
Also I’ve been up to 2650 this season, it was absterge and 2 locks I don’t remember.

As for the point you keep bringing up about removed abilities, I understand what you’re saying.
Blizzard took away lock mobility because it was to crazy and they took away mage dmg reduc because they had so much mobility.

Either be tanky and immobile or mobile and squishy.

I already said I agree, I’m down for afflic to have it.
I don’t think demo needs it, they just need a buff in some other regard, I personally don’t know where.

Destro does not.
I do not care if destro has no place in a tourney setting. No reason to base a class around a style of play that only 30 people get to experience. Live ladder is what matters, and in live ladder Destro is arguably tied with arcane for being the strongest caster.

And if you want to use the arguement of “There was no destro representation in the Na cup” there were no MW’s either. I don’t think mw needs a buff, they need a rework, but again, wait to see what will happen in bfa.

Destro does not.
I do not care if destro has no place in a tourney setting. No reason to base a class around a style of play that only 30 people get to experience. Live ladder is what matters, and in live ladder Destro is arguably tied with arcane for being the strongest caster.


Holdup you think they took away mage damage because they were too mobile and took away lock mobility because we were too mobile?

How would you call a 30 second baseline cd teleport to a predictable location too much mobility when all of the melee have 100% uptime on ranged anyway and still have as much mobility/damage.

Demonic circle is the baseline choice anyway so how would it affect anything regardless. People are still going to be playing with it anyway...

Melee has been absolutely disgustingly strong in legion and you're trying to justify nerfs agains warlock mobility despite how bad it still was with demonic circle and mage damage because of their mobility?

You're out of your mind honestly and are talking nonsense. You have no clue what you're talking about because you don't play lock or mage and don't see the problems with pruning.

WW monk can hop skip around an arena along with feral druid and do 300k+ dps with insane mobility and self healing.

A 30 second baseline mobility cd to a predictable location isn't "too mobile" especially when melee have all their gap closers.

-flying serpent kick
-roll
-grip
-heroic leap
-charge
-fel rush
-devine steed
-transendance
-wraith walk

Not to mention all melee have spammable snares and Warlocks don't have a single one.

I actually can't believe you think Warlocks had too much mobility before.

We definitely weren't tanky and still aren't tanky nor were we too mobile.

With our wall going back to a 3 minute cd we need baseline circle.

At least your class was actually represented outside of gatekeeper comps in the tournament and isn't a comp you just play to counter someone.

Cdew even said his comp twd was too strong.

Both WW and DK are insane right now.

Saying statements like you don't care if there is any warlock representation in the tournaments is extremely disappointing no matter the reason.

If I don't see classes performing well in places I always encourage buffs and never think to myself. Oh well they're viable elsewhere.

Remember Warlocks were never gatekeeper tournament classes.

We've had problems with tournament representation all expansion.

Before the current one we were too squishy.
We raised the issue of 100% melee uptime in the damn Legion Beta, but they didn't change anything. All they did was increase caster damage to the point where *if* you get 4 seconds alone you can just solo something (Destro, Arcane).

Legion melee babbies are unable to accept that melee should have to waddle around sometimes or (gasp) switch targets in exchange for their all-instant, uninterruptable rotation and stuns.
02/19/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Meleelock
We raised the issue of 100% melee uptime in the damn Legion Beta, but they didn't change anything. All they did was increase caster damage to the point where *if* you get 4 seconds alone you can just solo something (Destro, Arcane).

Legion melee babbies are unable to accept that melee should have to waddle around sometimes or (gasp) switch targets in exchange for their all-instant, uninterruptable rotation and stuns.


Except it's harder for a destro lock than an arcane mage to get those 4 seconds alone.

All we do is waddle around from place to place whilst mage hop skips and jumps around and still bursts for 800k + dps.

No I'm not asking for arcane mage nerfs either.

We need circle back in BFA to get out of those situations.
Echoing my thoughts once again.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum