fury getting no love in BfA

Warrior
I was so excited about arms changes that I didn't really pay atention the fury ones

-We will lose our artifact spell, and that sucks a lot.
-The same must go talents without any alternative ( I hate Frothing Berserker ), and Inner Rage even got nerf to 100% from 150%
-Enrage buff got nerf to 50% from 100%, and we still keep the 20% damage taken debuff
-Arms warrior got Sudden Death back while fury not.
and that's all, nothing new to fury

I honestly dont see myself playing this spec in BfA if these "changes" remain.
02/05/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Dagnei
I was so excited about arms changes that I didn't really pay atention the fury ones

-We will lose our artifact spell, and that sucks a lot.
-The same must go talents without any alternative ( I hate Frothing Berserker ), and Inner Rage even got nerf to 100% from 150%
-Enrage buff got nerf to 50% from 100%, and we still keep the 20% damage taken debuff
-Arms warrior got Sudden Death back while fury not.
and that's all, nothing new to fury

I honestly dont see myself playing this spec in BfA if these "changes" remain.


Last I looked Odyns Fury was still in. Did they recently remove it?
Maybe they haven't gotten around to it yet?

If they have and they left Fresh Meat and Outburst in....

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#BiG
02/05/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Dagnei
I was so excited about arms changes that I didn't really pay atention the fury ones

-We will lose our artifact spell, and that sucks a lot.
-The same must go talents without any alternative ( I hate Frothing Berserker ), and Inner Rage even got nerf to 100% from 150%
-Enrage buff got nerf to 50% from 100%, and we still keep the 20% damage taken debuff
-Arms warrior got Sudden Death back while fury not.
and that's all, nothing new to fury

I honestly dont see myself playing this spec in BfA if these "changes" remain.


You're complaining about the very first build of the alpha that isn't even live yet. All of the class changes are not implemented yet, and numbers tuning is literally the last step in the testing process, mere weeks before the expansion is released.
02/05/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Penguinjim
You're complaining about the very first build of the alpha that isn't even live yet. All of the class changes are not implemented yet, and numbers tuning is literally the last step in the testing process, mere weeks before the expansion is released.

who is "complaining" here? now say an opinion is considered a complain????
this is a forum where people debate and share their thoughts about the game.
You didn't even read til the end. Of course I'm aware that's still an alpha.
If you dont like the comment, move on and take your toxicity with you.
Early changes does look bad...i came to fury because it seems to be what rest used to be...high burst and easy fluent rotation. Now gonna have to start testing classes and specs till i find another high burst class
02/05/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Dagnei
02/05/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Penguinjim
You're complaining about the very first build of the alpha that isn't even live yet. All of the class changes are not implemented yet, and numbers tuning is literally the last step in the testing process, mere weeks before the expansion is released.

who is "complaining" here? now say an opinion is considered a complain????
this is a forum where people debate and share their thoughts about the game.
You didn't even read til the end. Of course I'm aware that's still an alpha.
If you dont like the comment, move on and take your toxicity with you.


Why even bother making the comment in the first place when you basically just agreed that the comment is invalid because of the reasons I pointed out? There's nothing to discuss because the changes aren't even in yet.

By the way, the last sentence of your post is definitely whiny. Therefore -
complaint.
02/05/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Penguinjim
02/05/2018 09:52 AMPosted by Dagnei
...
who is "complaining" here? now say an opinion is considered a complain????
this is a forum where people debate and share their thoughts about the game.
You didn't even read til the end. Of course I'm aware that's still an alpha.
If you dont like the comment, move on and take your toxicity with you.


Why even bother making the comment in the first place when you basically just agreed that the comment is invalid because of the reasons I pointed out? There's nothing to discuss because the changes aren't even in yet.

By the way, the last sentence of your post is definitely whiny. Therefore -
complaint.


You're an idiot. If you think huge sweeping changes including talent changes and rotations being swapped actually take place in alpha onward then you haven't been around very long.
02/05/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Vhaurilius
02/05/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Penguinjim
...

Why even bother making the comment in the first place when you basically just agreed that the comment is invalid because of the reasons I pointed out? There's nothing to discuss because the changes aren't even in yet.

By the way, the last sentence of your post is definitely whiny. Therefore -
complaint.


You're an idiot. If you think huge sweeping changes including talent changes and rotations being swapped actually take place in alpha onward then you haven't been around very long.


You're right, how silly of me. Blizzard makes all of the class changes in the very first build of the alpha, and then calls it a day until the next expansion. It's not like Fury alone underwent multiple big changes throughout the entire testing period in Legion. Thanks for enlightening me, supreme overlord of the internet.
From experience, they work with a few specs at a time.

As the guy above mentioned, they update it gradually over time - maybe they're just focused on Arms at the moment.

When we hit like maybe June/July and there's still no changes to Fury then you can go panic :)
Remember the team that works on Warriors has to work on all 3 specs, so they may of started with Arms and will post more updates for Fury later. Fury as far as rotation goes is fine from their point of view and didn't have any real glaring issues they haven't fixed yet. Arms is kinda reliant on Ayala's to do good and overall has been overhauled this xpack, I feel like they wanted Arms to be more unique so with them removing Battlecry from Arms and making our CS that CD I kinda like where they plan to take us.

For Fury I wish Inner Rage was Baseline, Spamming raging blow during enrage and Furious slash when not is kinda boring and not fun so I lost interest in Fury when Blood Bath became our go to talent.
02/06/2018 08:37 AMPosted by Korcron
For Fury I wish Inner Rage was Baseline, Spamming raging blow during enrage and Furious slash when not is kinda boring and not fun so I lost interest in Fury when Blood Bath became our go to talent.


IR is a good 'pacing' talent, but it just dominated for too long. TBH I don't like the idea of a generator hitting harder than your spender (Rampage/Execute), if anything that's something for gimmicky set bonuses, not a talent. BB was balanced decently well against IR, but Frenzy never really had a chance this expac, mostly due to trying to keep the buff up, esp in multi-target and in execute phase. But the 'idea' of the tier was mostly sound.

FS just needed the T19 bonus baked in (increase the stacking crit buff) as a filler.

FB I'm not a fan of, just because I don't like the idea of intentionally rage capping. It was also just mathematically stronger than the other options. It did change how you played (which can be good), but I feel unfortunately mostly in a degenerate way. Part of its strength was the synergy with RA (which is also good, having 'builds' is a generally good concept, as long as there is compelling choice amongst them), which is another talent I don't like (see below).

RA just had too much synergy with BC, esp once they nerfed DR and made it a dead talent. Bladestorm had no reason to be where it was, and was never a good choice, mostly because it didn't synch well to BC in duration nor CD. The 'theme' of T100 was all over the place.

Outburst was always a dead talent (if anything this should have been baseline, but making you use your utility rotationally is a bad thing, just like it was for T20 prot set bonuses), but otherwise Wrecking Ball vs Avatar was a successful choice in that tier IMO.

Wouldn't be shocked to see further nerfs for shockwave given what has been said about utility. ST Stun vs AoE Stun is not really a great choice outside small scale PvP though- putting this against double time really feels like a bad 'theme' for a row and more something that should have been a PvP 'choice'- if it was a CC/utility row, then double time is the odd man out- maybe something that interacted with our fear (stand still, increased duration/immune/resistant to damage break) and or an AoE interrupt like bears got would have been a better fit. Hell, even Warbreaker could have been put here and double time moved to T60.

Same deal in Furious Charge/Bounding Stride/Warpaint- bad tier I never changed out of Bounding Stride (esp because Heroic Leap, like Charge, is one of the best Warrior abilities of all time) except for very niche healing related reasons (and that only because VR was stripped from Fury, that should come back IMO). Warpaint is stupid/boring/not very impactful, so this tier also fails IMO. If anything this could be the 'mobility' row, assuming they still want this to be a thing.

In T15, the only real choices were ER vs War Machine (loooove this talent in a haste centric paradigm for the class), and that is a binary ST vs adds/open world (war machine uptime) sort of decision. So also not very successful IMO. Fresh meat, also generally not tuned well and where it would be more helpful (adds at full health) tend to not be in that range very long, or you have BC up and crit BT is irrelevant, or War Machine has more value when those adds die. It also lost value as haste and enrage uptimes push higher naturally, so not much impact to basically guaranteeing enrage at >80% health on raid bosses (vs ER all the time and having resource gen be a backstop to getting enraged, which kept getting buffed over time throughout Legion).
Ah the good ole class development cycle. It's always amazing how quickly "it's only alpha" turns into "why did Blizzard not listen to player feedback?"
But its not alpha yet?
Complaining about changes in build 1 out of hundreds which just showed few actual ability changes with everything else being tuning changes for the upcoming squish - just like literally every other class and spec received?

Yeah, the changes in the first build are totally the only changes we'll have and Blizzard won't compensate for the loss of our Artifact ability, as well as the loss of artifact traits which kept us in a very good spot.

Okay lmao. This is why Blizzard hates datamining, because people like you make posts like this before any changes even get made.

As somebody a few posts above me said, Blizzard typically makes changes in waves. Of course they're going to publish changes for classes/specs that are getting huge changes first - because they're the ones that will be getting the most attention. Fury is very likely to be only seeing a polishing of the spec with QoL changes, things like that aren't required to be pushed into the very first build in a pre-alpha.

02/06/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Reily
Ah the good ole class development cycle. It's always amazing how quickly "it's only alpha" turns into "why did Blizzard not listen to player feedback?"
Nobody is defending Blizzard's questionable development choices. "It's only Alpha" is a valid excuse, and it's even more valid now considering class tuning/changes is hardly even being pushed with the exception of the specs that are getting re-worked.
Complaining about spamming FS. What ilvl are you like, 850 to need to do that?
02/05/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Dagnei
I was so excited about arms changes that I didn't really pay atention the fury ones

-We will lose our artifact spell, and that sucks a lot.
-The same must go talents without any alternative ( I hate Frothing Berserker ), and Inner Rage even got nerf to 100% from 150%
-Enrage buff got nerf to 50% from 100%, and we still keep the 20% damage taken debuff
-Arms warrior got Sudden Death back while fury not.
and that's all, nothing new to fury

I honestly dont see myself playing this spec in BfA if these "changes" remain.


It's still early, relax. Wait until testing begins.

They were probably so busy un-!@#$ing the %^-* show that was arms that they just haven't gotten to work on fury yet. And it seems to me like everything and everyone is getting a damage nerf so maybe it just has something to do with scaling.

Just sit back and wait for the alpha to release and stop going off of a few patch notes that we haven't even seen in gameplay yet.
They mentioned in a dev interview awhile back ago their intent to nerf the damage of inner rage and compensate by giving us an overall damage increase. The changes to IR and Enrage are welcome if they do indeed compensate our overall damage as i'm tired of hitting like a wet noodle outside of CD windows. It'd be nice if they gave us t19 baseline. A 5% boost to the effectiveness of FS is nice but not anywhere near where it should be. I'm thinking they don't want to buff it even more because crit is already so devalued, and doing so would just make it worse.
02/07/2018 06:45 AMPosted by Nareneda
A 5% boost to the effectiveness of FS is nice but not anywhere near where it should be. I'm thinking they don't want to buff it even more because crit is already so devalued, and doing so would just make it worse.


Well we are losing our artifact traits, so BC windows will already be less nucking futz.

That being said, if they wanted to add crit synergy, they can always add our crit rating as a crit damage modifier, even 'just' in BC windows. That would prop it up.

So would tweaking crits of generators/auto attacks to generate more rage such that crit is as valid a path toward the Rampage Enrage backstop as stacking haste (about 40% of total rage gains now are just from AAs) with respect to overall Enrage% uptime.
02/05/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Vhaurilius
You're an idiot. If you think huge sweeping changes including talent changes and rotations being swapped actually take place in alpha onward then you haven't been around very long.


I've been playing the game for 12 years, and have been closely involved with the last four beta cycles in terms of feedback. They absolutely make changes even into late beta (IE Focused Rage in Legion Beta).

Doom and Gloom solves nothing. Feedback, while sometimes unheard, does a lot.

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