Are we really OK with Night Elf Genocide?

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03/04/2018 05:13 PMPosted by Rirath
"Look at all these times the Alliance proved they wouldn't go as far as genocide to justify actually committing genocide!" Fantastic argument.

People other than me already stated why it is not considered a genocide, BTW, Sylvannas wants to attack it because it is a threat to her operation of Azerite, not because she hates the night elves.
I can show you the meaning if you want: "Genocide is intentional action to destroy a people (usually defined as an ethnic, national, racial, or religious group) in whole or in part. "
03/04/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Kulzgal
destroy a people


see maybe im crazy but forcing an entire nation from not only their country but their continent sounds like it fits the bill pretty well in all cases but the most apathetic, detached definition
The number of times the word "genocide" has been misused on these forums is staggering.
03/04/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
03/04/2018 04:41 PMPosted by Finnoldoran
kicking them out of Kalimdor, making it secure for the Horde.


A sad fact though that forced movements of entire populations are result in, or are caused by genocide.


IRL yes, that can happen. But this is Warcraft. Those issues which tend to link them in the real world also happen to be some of the stuff Blizzard is most fond of hand-waving away. Add in the fact that it's just Teldrassil/Tirisfal we're seeing changed and you don't even have enough to make a decent claim for ethnic cleansing, much less genocide. (And frankly, since I'm a troll partisan I have not the slightest beef about either the Alliance based out of EK or all those living elves who benefited from the kaldorei empire's rise and expansion getting the taste of some ethnic cleansing of their own for once)
03/04/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Tewdee
Whether genocide is the intended goal, it doesn't matter.
Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.
03/04/2018 04:41 PMPosted by Finnoldoran
Yes. I am not only OK with it, I agree it must be done.

You call it genocide - I call it open war. War on Azeroth and this universe.

Invading Night Elf lands, destroying theml, kicking them out of Kalimdor, making it secure for the Horde. I am OK with it.

Genn attacked Sylvanas after the Broken Shore. They were the first to attack AFTER both factions fought together. I dont even know if Anduin knew about Stormhiem as it happened- im pretty sure Genn and Rodgers were eager for a fight.

If Tyrande and her people will allow that instigator, assassin, war provocateur Genn to hide in her tree, we will burn it down and all in it.


Is uh...is this kind of rhetoric not a little bit concerning to anyone else? Like I get that it's all fictional but...jeez, dude.
I'll tell you what, Valko. We'll just round all the night elves up and put them in internment camps for a generation (one of their generations) or more instead, until they've come to see things our way and are willing to live in harmony with our civilization(s). How does that sound?
03/04/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Samariyu
03/04/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Tewdee
Whether genocide is the intended goal, it doesn't matter.
Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.
So intentionally killing all or removing all the NE from Kalimdor is not the intentional, systematic extermination of a racial population or group?

Alright then. Just a little ethnic cleansing from an entire continent is entirely acceptable.
I don't remember Sylvanas wanting to line up every Night Elf to exterminate them to call it genocide. So far, all we've heard is that she wants Teldrassil to not be a sustainable and powerful source of Azerite for the Alliance.

What a large portion of the Alliance wants for the Forsaken would be genocide, what Gilneas wanted for the Orcs in WC2 is genocide, what Garrosh wanted for pretty much everyone that wasn't an Orc is genocide.
03/04/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Stalairne
see maybe im crazy but forcing an entire nation from not only their country but their continent sounds like it fits the bill pretty well in all cases but the most apathetic, detached definition

Isn't that literally what the Alliance wants to do with the Forsaken since they took Undercity? Not only that but completely eliminate them from the face of the world without NEVER, EVER THINKING ABOUT THEM AS PEOPLE?

I have to say, the ability of the Alliance to completely ignore their bad actions and only focus the bad actions of the Horde is impressive.

Purge of Dalaran was totally another attempt on eliminating a group out of Dalaran, night elves were members of the Alliance during that time and they said nothing, hell, NOBODY ON THE ALLIANCE SAID SOMETHING. Besides Varian, and probably only because this screwed up his plan of converting blood elves to the Alliance.

Meanwhile, the attack on Theramore with the mana bomb was hated by part of the Horde, with some leaders standing against it. Leaders who had as much reason to hate humans as night elves had reasons to hate blood elves of Dalaran.
Honestly I can't believe how long it's taken to get rid of those filthy hippies.
03/04/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Kulzgal
Isn't that literally what the Alliance wants to do with the Forsaken since they took Undercity? Not only that but completely eliminate them from the face of the world without NEVER, EVER THINKING ABOUT THEM AS PEOPLE?


Please provide evidence that says the Alliance (not individual members of the Alliance, but the Alliance as an organization) plan to exterminate the Forsaken down to the last and refuse to see them as people.

Your whataboutism is quite endearing, though.
03/04/2018 05:36 PMPosted by Rirath
03/04/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Samariyu
...Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.
So intentionally killing all or removing all the NE from Kalimdor is not the intentional, systematic extermination of a racial population or group?

Alright then. Just a little ethnic cleansing from an entire continent is entirely acceptable.
The primary goal of the conquest has to be the destruction of the night elves for it to meet the definition of "genocide." Their deaths as a side effect of conquest does not meet the definition.

That's the simple truth of it.

Call it "mass death of the night elves." But it does not meet the qualification of "genocide." Find another word to describe it.
03/04/2018 05:41 PMPosted by Valko
03/04/2018 05:38 PMPosted by Kulzgal
Isn't that literally what the Alliance wants to do with the Forsaken since they took Undercity? Not only that but completely eliminate them from the face of the world without NEVER, EVER THINKING ABOUT THEM AS PEOPLE?


Please provide evidence that says the Alliance (not individual members of the Alliance, but the Alliance as an organization) plan to exterminate the Forsaken down to the last and refuse to see them as people.


Please provide evidence that the Horde (not individual members but the Horde as an organization) plan to exterminate the night elves down to the last and refuse to see them as people.
03/04/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Samariyu
03/04/2018 05:20 PMPosted by Tewdee
Whether genocide is the intended goal, it doesn't matter.
Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.


Except many cases of real-world genocide were motivated by forced-movement of populations, acquiring resources or securing borders. Wiping out the populations were just by-products or incidentally happened in the process.
03/04/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Ronstin
Please provide evidence that the Horde (not individual members but the Horde as an organization) plan to exterminate the night elves down to the last and refuse to see them as people.


I don't really feel the need to, given I have not claimed as such. Try again.
03/04/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Tewdee
03/04/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Samariyu
...Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.


Except many cases of real-world genocide were motivated by forced-movement of populations, acquiring resources or securing borders. Wiping out the populations were just by-products or incidentally happened in the process.
Those actions were "wipe out the natives so we can claim their resources."

Please point to me where Sylvanas says she wants to wipe out the Darnassian night elves.
03/04/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Tewdee
03/04/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Samariyu
...Part of the definition of genocide is the act has to be intentional. Genocide is the intentional systematic extermination of a racial population or group.


Except many cases of real-world genocide were motivated by forced-movement of populations, acquiring resources or securing borders. Wiping out the populations were just by-products or incidentally happened in the process.
I genuinely find this thread disturbing. I think people here would fall for the same things actual real world places said to justify their genocide with how easily they justify it.
03/04/2018 05:45 PMPosted by Valko
03/04/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Ronstin
Please provide evidence that the Horde (not individual members but the Horde as an organization) plan to exterminate the night elves down to the last and refuse to see them as people.


I don't really feel the need to, given I have not claimed as such. Try again.


Then maybe stay out of it when he's arguing with someone who did make that claim?
03/04/2018 05:41 PMPosted by Valko
Please provide evidence that says the Alliance (not individual members of the Alliance, but the Alliance as an organization) plan to exterminate the Forsaken down to the last and refuse to see them as people.

If said individual members can use their forces in such a way, and the Alliance ex-High King says so, it is the interest of the Alliance. The following was not directly to the forsaken, but the Horde as a whole, from Battle for Undercity:
"The king and his group walks in.
King Varian Wrynn says: I was away for too long. My absence cost us the lives of some of our greatest heroes. Trash like you and this evil witch were allowed to roam free -- unchecked.
King Varian Wrynn says: The time has come to make things right. To disband your treacherous kingdom of murderers and thieves. Putress was the first strike. Many more will come.
King Varian Wrynn says: I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing.
King Varian Wrynn says: What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief.
King Varian Wrynn says: ATTACK! FOR STORMWIND! FOR BOLVAR! FOR THE ALLIANCE!
The fight is joined.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore yells: VARIAN, NO! STOP!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore incapacitates all units with a freeze spell.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: It did not have to be like this..."
Kinda ironic, really, the same one who stopped the fight, tried to influence Varian to do it again expansions later and he refused. This makes me respect Varian more as a character, because of his development.

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