Leveling Alts...youre missing the point

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03/15/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Jungshao
03/15/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Derka
Yeah. WoW is most certainly it’s own micro economy but you’re clearly too busy being a self-proclaimed successful business person to grasp that. This is all going completely over your head. You’d much rather just continue pretending the evil video game makers are oppressing you. Carry on.

No..its not.
Anyone thinking THIS is a 'real' economy has absolutely NO comprehension about how an economy works.
Do you understand WHY a REAL economy NEEDS many people to be low income? Why we cant ALL be rich with money flowing out our ears?

If everyone had truckloads of oranges, no one would be able to trade an orange for anything.
when you can buy a WoW token your basically printing in game money. Those with more external cash can be filthy rich in game without having to put any work into making it IN GAME.
No, Im sorry, but as I said until you are unable to just create in game money from thin air...and you are RELYING on that gold to pay required bills, this ISNT even similar to a REAL economy.

But then, it IS a game. It isnt supposed to be real.


Okay, I'll feed the troll....

FFS, did you honestly just claim all of your business/economics prowess above, and yet your reasoning for WoW not being a real economy is because you can create in game money from thin air? Have you HEARD of the Federal Reserve, the Bank of Japan, the Bank of Draghi, and so forth? Money is nothing BUT air in the real world....

/end troll feeding
03/15/2018 07:49 AMPosted by Meritha
03/15/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Jungshao
when you can buy a WoW token your basically printing in game money.


False. The gold comes from another player. I think I have discovered part of the problem. You are new, which in a lot of your other posts made you quite endearing (IMHO), but the flip side of that is you seem to be quite mistaken on a few of your beliefs.

ugh....
That is about the 'economy' as a whole so it doesnt become unbalanced causing out of control inflation (that exists anyway)
On an INDIVIDUAL level if Im allowed to print a billion dollars then someone else has to give up a billion dollars who can AFFORD it, at some point if EVERYONE does that and we're ALL billionaires it will cause the VALUE of that money to drop exponentially.

As i said...if we ALL have truckloads of oranges then NO ONE is going to accept oranges in trade for anything. They have enough already.
03/15/2018 07:41 AMPosted by Jungshao
03/15/2018 07:37 AMPosted by Feuerhuf
I wish more people would indeed vote with their wallets, rather than angrily spamming the forums. But wait, that would require self control, which is clearly missing from anyone who feels triggered by the slog involved with raising their X-tieth alt to cap.

Im sorry. I guess I didnt get that memo that said every WoW player has to think and feel just like YOU do about the issue.
Maybe you could fax it to me again?


Alright, look. This is not about agreeing or disagreeing with me. This is about the basic truth that everything in life costs some amount of time, money, or both; and that what you do when you don't like what's involved with obtaining something you want is fundamentally up to you. You can invest the time, or money, or both. You can decide that you don't really want it after all, and carry on. There are generally other avenues that depend on the context, too (e.g., in this case, withdrawing your financial support of the company, or 'vote with your wallet' as has been said -- which is great! Money talks.) Now, kindly stop comporting yourself as God's gift to those of us who are not quite 50. Thanks.
Having more abilities while leveling would alleviate this issue
#RevertToMop
03/15/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Jungshao
I can set a system up and then down the road alter that system to maximize my profits using components already in place 'four years ago'.


They are not maximizing it though. If they wanted to maximize it they would have:

a) kept things as they were because people were having to spend $20 for the base game + $30 (it may have been 40 but we will go with 30) for Mists of Pandaria + $50 for Warlords of Draenor to get a boost, so they gave up getting an extra $40 per boost.

b) allowed you to attain heritage armor even if you boosted to 110.

So how are they "maximizing profits" without doing the 2 biggest things that would actually maximize profits?
03/15/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Jellarie
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Now thats rich.
Own my own profitable company for over 30 years. Been investing for just as long. Never lost a single cent on either and I dont understand economics.
You DO realize that WoW ISNT a real economy, right?
Until you are using that in game gold to pay your bills every month and the gold you CAN get isnt as easy as printing money (ie the WoW token) then this will never even resemble a real economy.


Well then since you are such a successful business person then look at it in those terms.
Figure out how long it takes you to level and put a $ amount on each of those hours for what you believe your time is worth. Compare that to the cost of a level boost verses the time cost of what you decided your time is valued at.

Now which is the better deal?

Leveling, even this slightly slower version of it is still too fast. You've been given the option to make it faster, you have choices, level or buy a boost. You aren't owed a free ride.


I love the irony that people who want the leveling to be how it was, or not be bogged down needlessly to increase playtime are the ones who are "wanting a free ride" or "Entitled", but we're all supposed to just happily accept having exp gains across the board nerfed, all methods of making exp faster across the board nerfed, the supposed "Fix" to being power leveled by a friend, recruit a friend being nerfed, and the removal of the 300%XP potions {Please, if they didnt want us leveling fast what was their excuse for that, or the 200% potion from Draenor which could be stacked together}.

You want it your way, we get that, we're fine with that. The problem is, we're being FORCED to do it your way when they very specifically had tons of options for fast leveling, so their whole narrative that "This is how wow was supposed to be played!" was false from the get go and everyone can see through it, and the only "Alternative" now is to open our wallet and pay what amounts to a AAA game {it costs more then ANY of blizzards games not counting the Delux Editions} so we can "lol skip the content and get a free ride."

We're not ASKING for a free ride, none of us want a free ride, but we don't want to be nerfed to the ground and have this lie that "Oh, this is how its meant to be" shoved down our throat when we have items in game that prove otherwise. No one made people who wanted to enjoy the story power level or abandon quests, you could always go do them, but now we're forced to do the opposite. We're forced to sit there and grind for hours on quests {or buy a ridiculously overpriced boost, which is even more ridiculous since the boost doesn't even complete the story quests for you, if you want the world content done you STILL Have to go back and do it. } to do in a week what we could do in a day or two.

Maybe if they offered the boosts for 20/25 dollars like their competitors {Especially since the boosters dont actually do any content, they just explicitly level the character}, people wouldn't care nearly as much, but this is nothing more then obvious gouging to increase the hours played metric as well as to sell more boosts. Its not "How its meant to be played!" that's a dang lie.
03/15/2018 06:32 AMPosted by Rújio
03/15/2018 06:30 AMPosted by Aûri
Ok then buy a boost? I don't see the problem.

Oh wait you want to get max level for free without doing any work at all because you've done it before? Right that makes sense.


I think he just wants to craft a tailor without the endless grind of world leveling. I don't think it is an unreasonable request. Why should crafting be tied to world leveling. It really shouldn't and there are many game precedents that do that. EQII comes to mind.


Correct me if I am wrong, because I very well may be, but can't he max crafting without world leveling if he feeds the alt with his main? Or are the crafting "tiers" locked behind levels?
03/15/2018 06:28 AMPosted by Rújio
You should ask this question in the Q&A today
They only take predetermined softball questions.
03/15/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Belaydia
Money is nothing BUT air in the real world....

Wow..that was really deep?
As a gold/silver/platinum investor there probably isnt much Im going to hear in here about fiat currency that I havent heard ten thousand times before.
Money is 'worth' what we say its worth and what we do to affect that worth, whether its paper OR gold.
You do know, Im guessing, that our coinage USED to be gold and silver with an absolute SET value. A quarter was worth 25 cents, no more, no less and for a long time was 90% silver.
Gold coinage worked exactly the same. A $20 coin containing so much gold was 'worth' exactly what our US government SAID it was worth.

The only difference between fiat and gold is that gold is a commodity that has industrial uses that make it far more valuable than a piece of paper.

WOW...all of this because of an OP trying to EXPLAIN clearly why WE dont like the new longer leveling process as much as the old.
03/15/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Kheldariik
03/15/2018 06:32 AMPosted by Rújio
...

I think he just wants to craft a tailor without the endless grind of world leveling. I don't think it is an unreasonable request. Why should crafting be tied to world leveling. It really shouldn't and there are many game precedents that do that. EQII comes to mind.


Correct me if I am wrong, because I very well may be, but can't he max crafting without world leveling if he feeds the alt with his main? Or are the crafting "tiers" locked behind levels?


Crafting tiers are locked behind levels, you can't get to outlands crafting without being level 60 for instance, or northrend without being 70 and so on.
03/15/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Kheldariik


Correct me if I am wrong, because I very well may be, but can't he max crafting without world leveling if he feeds the alt with his main? Or are the crafting "tiers" locked behind levels?

If youre asking what I think you are, yeah, theyre locked....ie I cant progress to profession level X until my character is level Y
03/15/2018 07:50 AMPosted by Jungshao
03/15/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Meritha
Still waiting on an answer on how it is you think that boosts only exist because of the leveling changes even though boosts were added to the shop four years ago.

Sorry but clearly you misinterpreted the point.
I can set a system up and then down the road alter that system to maximize my profits using components already in place 'four years ago'.

IF Bliz drops the fee....or reduces it to $10, then we'll know that my paranoia was unfounded.
But...they are a business trying to make money, so we'll see.


Actually if it was dropped that low it would prove your (and others) paranoia because people would easily pay that amount left and right as your own post admitted to the willingness. Instead it is set at an amount to offer the easy way out but also give pause.

They want people to play the game, they aren't trying to force people to buy boosts because they want that profit.

03/15/2018 07:32 AMPosted by Jeansola
...

Boosts are not a valid alternative to the complete neutering to leveling that forced everyone to slow down, from the people who just wanted to get to end game, to speed runners, to people leveling their umpteenth alt {i'm at 8 110's now and the changes have left me with no desire to level any of my unlocked AR's}

the boost is not a viable alternative, I wish people would stop perpetrating that it is. It never was, it never has been, hell, even FF14 has boosts and you know what THEY charge for skipping content? 18 bucks for skipping the base game, and 20 for skipping up to current. 25 to boost a character level. Even if you combine the two that's only 45 dollars which is about the price of an Xpac; and unlike wow FF14's story actually means something and unlocks a ton of things as you go through it, where as in WoW the story can be ignored completely. 60 is gouging, it always has been, and no one in their right mind will pay the price of the freaking AAA game release for a character boost. But given people are leaving in droves, well, I guess they are voting with their wallets.

+1000

I liked someones idea of a +10 exp increase for each max level character you have. That way the players who have put in the time can level alts much quicker than a new player who should probably be running the story line to some extent just to have some idea whats going on.

If the boosts were $20, Id be more than happy to buy a couple.
At $60...well a very hot place will freeze over long before I ever do that.
Its absurd to pretend that someone is 'lazy', as some of these folks do, if they dont like longer leveling WHILE there is a DH that skips MOST of the game...and while ANY boost exists at any price.
If you want the advantage of having more professions, then work for it.
Actually if it was dropped that low it would prove your (and others) paranoia because people would easily pay that amount left and right as your own post admitted to the willingness. Instead it is set at an amount to offer the easy way out but also give pause.


Exactly this. If it was about money they would want to get the most they could out of everyone, not just from a select few.
03/15/2018 08:00 AMPosted by Jungshao
03/15/2018 07:51 AMPosted by Belaydia
Money is nothing BUT air in the real world....

Wow..that was really deep?
As a gold/silver/platinum investor there probably isnt much Im going to hear in here about fiat currency that I havent heard ten thousand times before.
Money is 'worth' what we say its worth and what we do to affect that worth, whether its paper OR gold.
You do know, Im guessing, that our coinage USED to be gold and silver with an absolute SET value. A quarter was worth 25 cents, no more, no less and for a long time was 90% silver.
Gold coinage worked exactly the same. A $20 coin containing so much gold was 'worth' exactly what our US government SAID it was worth.

The only difference between fiat and gold is that gold is a commodity that has industrial uses that make it far more valuable than a piece of paper.

WOW...all of this because of an OP trying to EXPLAIN clearly why WE dont like the new longer leveling process as much as the old.


And yet above you said you hadn't lost money ever in 30 years of investing. Yet you are invested in precious metals. So one of the two statements seems to be inaccurate. Peace out.

P.S. Money is worth what we say it's worth, as you said. Which is why I said it was nothing but air. As soon as we say it is worth nothing, guess what? It's worth nothing. The WoW economy works a little more realistically than you give it credit for.
Maybe if you spent more time actually leveling, you'd be 110 by now, because from what I've seen, your character has been 90 for a while now.
03/15/2018 08:08 AMPosted by Belaydia
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Wow..that was really deep?
As a gold/silver/platinum investor there probably isnt much Im going to hear in here about fiat currency that I havent heard ten thousand times before.
Money is 'worth' what we say its worth and what we do to affect that worth, whether its paper OR gold.
You do know, Im guessing, that our coinage USED to be gold and silver with an absolute SET value. A quarter was worth 25 cents, no more, no less and for a long time was 90% silver.
Gold coinage worked exactly the same. A $20 coin containing so much gold was 'worth' exactly what our US government SAID it was worth.

The only difference between fiat and gold is that gold is a commodity that has industrial uses that make it far more valuable than a piece of paper.

WOW...all of this because of an OP trying to EXPLAIN clearly why WE dont like the new longer leveling process as much as the old.


And yet above you said you hadn't lost money ever in 30 years of investing. Yet you are invested in precious metals. So one of the two statements seems to be inaccurate. Peace out.

P.S. Money is worth what we say it's worth, as you said. Which is why I said it was nothing but air. As soon as we say it is worth nothing, guess what? It's worth nothing. The WoW economy works a little more realistically than you give it credit for.


The value of money is backed by the value of actual precious metals that are held in the federal reserve {Or at least that's what we claim fort knox is for. Pick your conspiracy poison here.}, It's also backed partially by a countries GPD, america, having one of the highest GPD's and a fair amount of precious metals, has a high value currency, where as something like say, Malayasia or North Korea both have very low amounts of precious metals and very low GPD's, so their currency has very little value. It's not entirely based on what we say its worth, its that items go up in price based on the amount of money in circulation.

This is inflation at work {Which we're seeing in WoW with more gold meaning higher prices}, but unlike WoW which has literally no backing to its currency {and you can literally trade real money for ingame currency which was simply done to stop gold selling}, real world currency DOES have backing which can be tracked, traced, and inspected to see why a countries currency has the value it does and it's all based on an earlier bartering system that has evolved over the years.
03/15/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Kheldariik
03/15/2018 06:32 AMPosted by Rújio
...

I think he just wants to craft a tailor without the endless grind of world leveling. I don't think it is an unreasonable request. Why should crafting be tied to world leveling. It really shouldn't and there are many game precedents that do that. EQII comes to mind.


Correct me if I am wrong, because I very well may be, but can't he max crafting without world leveling if he feeds the alt with his main? Or are the crafting "tiers" locked behind levels?
locked behind levels.
03/15/2018 08:11 AMPosted by Jeansola
<span class="truncated">...</span>

And yet above you said you hadn't lost money ever in 30 years of investing. Yet you are invested in precious metals. So one of the two statements seems to be inaccurate. Peace out.

P.S. Money is worth what we say it's worth, as you said. Which is why I said it was nothing but air. As soon as we say it is worth nothing, guess what? It's worth nothing. The WoW economy works a little more realistically than you give it credit for.


The value of money is backed by the value of actual precious metals that are held in the federal reserve


The gold standard has not been a thing since 1973.
There's a lot of us as well who like the stories and the concept of leveling, but find the early game too stale compared to the later game.

The 1-90 leveling world is too static right now. It's the same thing, over and over, with nothing ever changing along the way. Sure scaling allows a little more flexibility, but I still only have so many options, given my level at the time.

There's a leveling improvement suggestion thread going on right now that expresses many constructive ideas on how to improve this.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762007783

IMO, if all you want are max level characters for professions, level monks right now, if you can't shell out for a boost. Their pace with the Enlightenment buff feels reasonable.

But I feel like if they improved the quality of the early game to match the leveling quality of the later game, we'd have less complaints about the pace itself.

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