mage utility vs our purple brothers

Mage
I miss having much utility and I am sure some of you others do too. Lets begin

Portal - no one really uses this anymore, I cant remember the last time I needed to open a portal for someone.

Mage Table - not really used at all, the only people that ask for it are healers that might run the risk of running OOM

meanwhile... Warlocks
can summon players - used a ton
healthstones - everyone uses these
soulstone - warlock revive

Give me mana gems to summon for the raid or at least something used.
I dunno call it mana well. Please give us more than arcane intellect and make azeroth great again
The problem isn't our utility it's these new fangled mechanics. Same as how people are complaining mages can't heal. It's not that we need a heal. Other classes need it pruned. And running out of mana SHOULD be a thing. You should be at 90%+ for the whole fight. Why have mana as a resource even?

We're also getting buffs back in BFA.

Sooo, that's something. But the whole never needing mana or healing thing is stupid. When I'm on my priest I don't even heal the tanks. And almost never need to drink.
There used to be mana gems i believe a long time ago.. Would be nice lol
Mages can also move faster than a snail and solo soak one shot mechanics.
Mana definetly shouldn't be a thing, they just need to remove it. Mana+ resource building/proc based builds is a horrible idea.

Having to manage two separate resources as a caster is and always has been a silly idea.
03/01/2018 07:09 AMPosted by Frostytippz
There used to be mana gems i believe a long time ago.. Would be nice lol


There were but I'm pretty sure they were personal use only.
03/01/2018 07:40 AMPosted by Sarium
Mages can also move faster than a snail and solo soak one shot mechanics.


Thank you!

I dont understand why people never understand this. Have a fulminating pulse? Ice Block. Get literally any mechanic that would kill someone else? Ice Block.

And if youre frost, you get two!

I have a Destro lock main and a Frost Mage alt that I play regularly. Let me tell you, you do NOT want to summon everyone always. Everyone waits for you to run and summon them. Its a pain.

Lock rocks are cool though.
03/01/2018 05:29 AMPosted by Elaster
I miss having much utility and I am sure some of you others do too. Lets begin

Portal - no one really uses this anymore, I cant remember the last time I needed to open a portal for someone.

Mage Table - not really used at all, the only people that ask for it are healers that might run the risk of running OOM

meanwhile... Warlocks
can summon players - used a ton
healthstones - everyone uses these
soulstone - warlock revive

Give me mana gems to summon for the raid or at least something used.
I dunno call it mana well. Please give us more than arcane intellect and make azeroth great again
Your list of warlock utility is incomplete. You forgot:
  • Combat portals - very useful for fights like Khingaroth to get to the next add.
03/01/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Trojanpally
03/01/2018 07:09 AMPosted by Frostytippz
There used to be mana gems i believe a long time ago.. Would be nice lol


There were but I'm pretty sure they were personal use only.
Yup.

And mana gems sucked. Basically it was like drinking a mana potion. You got a small portion of your mana back when you consumed it. It cost more mana to make than it generated so you only ever refreshed it out of combat. In BC, it was upgraded to having 3 charges and became more useful.... a mandatory part of the rotation for arcane mages even.

That said, mana gems were always personal use only. They couldn't ever be shared with anyone else so they did not constitute utility.

Mages used to have buffs that could be shared:
  • Arcane Intellect - good intellect buff.
  • Arcane Brilliance - mass arcane intellect for the whole raid.
  • Amplify Magic - targeted ally takes 5% more damage and healing from magic. Good to cast on tank when facing low-magic boss encounters.
  • Dampen Magic - targeted ally takes 5% less magic damage and healing. Good to cast in high magic damage encounters.
Timewarp
+ gateway for locks
+ spellsteal for us
Hm, we can slow, freeze, and sheep, do they count? Warlock got Banish of course, and Succubus could seduce but she's not used in PvE.

Arcane has a "knock up" spell also.
03/01/2018 08:43 PMPosted by Ceruleanfate
Hm, we can slow, freeze, and sheep, do they count? Warlock got Banish of course, and Succubus could seduce but she's not used in PvE.

Arcane has a "knock up" spell also.
Supernova actually seems quite good for mythic Portals. With Supernova, mages have 2 interrupts for imps, both with short enough cooldown for every imp pack, and one of them is an AOE interrupt.
Mages can also move faster than a snail and solo soak one shot mechanics.


Yeah this isn't utility. This is our only major defensive being used as an immunity to cheese a mechanic that would otherwise inconvenience tanks.

And mobility is what enables us to deal our DPS. Specs that are less mobile innately do more dps when they don't need to move. Arcane for example needs mobility to switch from AoE to ST.

Even then not sure how you count both as utility but not the fact that warlocks can just stand in anything and not give a !@#$.
lol can't even grasp how people are comparing Warlocks to Mages. They one-up us on utility so hard it's not even funny. Playing this guy really made me realize how trash Mages have it.

Mage Teleports are useful for the wandering mage but in most cases they are effectively useless. Portals even less so with all the portals littered around.

Don't get me started on conjured food. That's there to save on some coppers. Nothing compared to the gold saved on expensive health potions which NPCs do not sell. The REAL benefit of this was how it instantly started healing players in PvP after they get out of combat, but they "fixed" that.

We have Spellsteal as a purge, but not if you are Arcane or Fire with a lot of Haste, unless you want to neuter your DPS.

That's it. That's all our ineffective utility.

Slow? That's VERY situational. Most units aren't even moved. Maybe on Necro M+ weeks. We don't even have a stun. Kiting is fun. Other people can just eat the hits and @ lol the target.

Our CC heals the target, so it's effectively screwing your party over unless you really, really need to keep something cc'd. You can't even CC the enemy target to get a small break when you solo, so it's always pathetic. Not to mention it breaks immediately on any damage.

OOoh Arcane Linguist. Such utility.

Meanwhile Warlocks:

1) Portals to summon players
2) Healthstones to replace expensive healing potions during progression and in PvP
3) Gateways that provides mobility to themselves and others
4) An array of AoE/ST stuns, slows, disables, charms, fears, that do not heal the enemy
5) Take no damage thanks to powerful self-healing
6) Soulstones for Battle AND Preemptive ressurection
7) Pets that can tank, heal, and dps for them

I'm sure I'm missing more !@#$.

Mages are only useful in any game mode for their damage. What little utility they have is entirely replaceable.
I think most people agree that locks are a little OP, and quite OP in Antorus specifically. Blizzard already nerfed them once though, and Blizz is pretty checked out of Legion. I doubt locks will be (or should be) nerfed again.

There are two more interesting questions:
1. Are mages bad enough to need another buff? I'd argue yes, but they are not auto-bench bad and they are downright useful when there are soaking mechanics around, so I wouldn't hold your breath. It just sucks to be a mage right now if you like doing consistently high damage.
2. Do other classes need the ability to summon? Sure, it's a signature warlock thing, but most warlocks I know wish someone else could do it and absolutely nobody thinks its fun having to wait for PuGs to run and join a group. Is mage the right class for a summon? It's one solid option. I'd just make the mage summon require 4 other channelers to summon one person at a time. This way it would only be useful in raids and locks will remain better at it.
03/02/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Mythlael
Yeah this isn't utility. This is our only major defensive being used as an immunity to cheese a mechanic that would otherwise inconvenience tanks.

um. what? You dont raid, do you?

Soaking mechanics is an important part of not wiping. Instead of needing to move far away, or have 3 people go to a designated spot, the mage can do it on their own with no impact on the raid at all.

That is literally the definition of utility.

03/02/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Mythlael
Even then not sure how you count both as utility but not the fact that warlocks can just stand in anything and not give a !@#$.

Yeah ok buddy stop doing low level dungeons or LFR then you'll run into times you have to move.
Warlocks have absolutely no mobility, while mages have all kinds of slows, roots, mobility, and CC. It's all situational, and while locks may have a lot of "utility" they can't do most of the things mages can do, like ruin a warriors day, or keep a healer in a full polymorph. Though I wish we had more portals!
03/01/2018 05:29 AMPosted by Elaster
I miss having much utility and I am sure some of you others do too. Lets begin

Portal - no one really uses this anymore, I cant remember the last time I needed to open a portal for someone.

Mage Table - not really used at all, the only people that ask for it are healers that might run the risk of running OOM

meanwhile... Warlocks
can summon players - used a ton
healthstones - everyone uses these
soulstone - warlock revive

Give me mana gems to summon for the raid or at least something used.
I dunno call it mana well. Please give us more than arcane intellect and make azeroth great again


lol you are so blatantly dishonest.

Healthstones are a worse version of health potions, nobody uses them since they share cd's anyways.

They get brez, which is a worse version of the druid since theirs has a cast time, while you as a mage offer heroism.

You have polymorph, a better CC than the fear which aggroes an entire dungeon.

So quit your bull!@#$ whining.
We definitely need more options other then just blink and invisibility

I think adding Slow time from diablo 3 and being able to control gravity around us to deal with melee would help defensively

On Offensive capability i think being able to change the spell effects of a spell casting or a spell that is on the ground, and changing the spell effect on a target player and npc would be helpful as well.

These would have to be non-elemental spells to truly be helpful and effective as we already have to deal with pets and spell counter.

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