Nice rng for the patheon trinket

General Discussion
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03/12/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Nakua
The problem with the RNG is the inconsistency and the loot treadmill it creates. And I know loot treadmill is a good term from an MMO developer perspective, but as players we don't like it. This trinket ties into legos and warforge and titanforging.

Since you asked for examples, here's a much fairer loot system then you have today.

Pantheon Trinkets:
-Have them start at a low chance to drop and increase the drop chance like with legendaries. Decide what is an acceptable number of weeks after which everyone should have it and design the % drop and increase around that.
-Also once they are upgraded to 1000 ilvl, convert them to the legendary trinket

Warforged/ Titanforging:
-Do not allow items to titanforge above the tier they are in (so max should be 15 ilvls above what the mythic ilvl is)
-Also add valor upgrades on the side. You already had a better system in the game. One that is consistent but still lets people put in time in the game. That way when we get an item that's not TF, we know we can at least upgrade it to that point eventually. This will still keep the treadmill going but will allow people to not feel shafted for their item not being TF (looking at you arcano crystal and blood thirsty instinct).

Legendaries:
-The system should have a bar that shows you where you are on your way to the next legendary, and that shows exactly how much emyssary, dungeons, raids give toward your next lego. If you happen to get one for free early then the bar would reset and you'd be happy you got one early, but at least you knew exactly how much work you had to put in to get your next lego.
-The system should have given a token, that you could then turn in for the legendary you wanted. As someone who's done 25 mage towers, I can tell you legendaries were my bane. On my hunter i wanted the pants for the heal. But I didn't get it. So I had to be much higher in ilvl. On my druid who was my main tank, the Luffas were 9th.

The main issues with the system is that you're removing agency, knowledge and completeness. It's like the lab rats that get zapped randomly vs the ones that are zapped based on behavior.


The pantheon trinkets do work like that. They have BLP, just like legendaries do.

THe titanforging system is already being changed, and has been slated to be changed to for months, exactly as you describe (essentially) in BFA

THe legendary progress bar would work great, but I have to disagree on the token portion. Maybe you get a token to buy with for a specific piece, so you have choice on the rings for example, or the trinkets, that sort. But straight up any you want, that takes out part of the system. IT was implemented poorly, but to take it's core out could be just as bad
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
I mean at this point a 5 year old could think of a better loot system


I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


My RNG seems broke sometimes as well. However, the change to personal loot over community loot was a major improvement in my opinion. Or, at least, for my character getting loot.
03/06/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Ssleak
What is your proposed system? Since a 5 year old can do better, why dont you make a suggestion?

Guaranteed loot?


No the best system would have been to just make them part of the regular loot table of the boss and not some personal push system that you can't even try to bonus roll for.
03/12/2018 10:26 PMPosted by Etalla
03/06/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Ythisens
...

This thread is not discussing the Legendary systems in other expansions nor even the legendary trinket off Argus. I've said that twice and said why I was deleting off topic replies that don't apply to the Epic Pantheon Trinkets because that's not what is being discussed. Sorry for the confusion but I would recommend reading all of the replies before jumping in a thread (especially the blue ones since you can jump through them).
You are the one that brought up ... bla bla bla "is the very same system that's been in the game for 13 years." If you can't take people calling you out and showing you are wrong - then who the $#&*#$@*& gave you the power to delete posts.

And with that - how has this become such a rampant thing NOW with blues and "community helpers" locking posts. Who decides whether posts are "helpful" or "productive" or not. Have you seen some of the fluff posts making their way through the forums? Oh - wait - only negative posts have the possibility of being unhelpful or unproductive - lets keep all those "what music do you listen to..." posts alive and kicking. Yea - those are way too helpful and productive.

The harder you try to control your customers opinions by weeding out anything negative the harder it will bite you in the xxx.

(soon to be deleted I'm sure).
Give an example of a thread that has been deleted that has been productive.
The worst part for the RNG for people without it at this stage is it takes 3 months to max at 1000. They really need to change it so you can get one of the blessings for each difficulty per week instead of only 1 as a catchup mechanic
03/12/2018 10:30 PMPosted by Chanslon
Give an example of a thread that has been deleted that has been productive.
I see what you did there - however - right this second just looking at the 1st page of the general forums I can give you ~15+ examples of threads that aren't productive/helpful in anyway shape or form. But - that's my point - its totally open to 'who' is doing the interpretations...

Why do they allow any and all other threads to be deraled with fluff or off topic posts?

consistency please...

To effectively counter your wittiness - give me an example of posts that have been deleted that haven't been productive.
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).

Better for player fulfillment or better for blizzard's (and most other MMO's) desire to keep the carrot on a stick style of motivation going?

The two are diametrically opposed.
8 YEARS and still no Invincible.

Cry me a river.
03/12/2018 10:30 PMPosted by Chanslon
Give an example of a thread that has been deleted that has been productive.
There was a rather constructive thread about someone that used to like the leveling changes until they tried them. Then the offered constructive feedback as well as dozens of others. Trolls got a hold of the later pages and instead of purging the trolls the thread was deleted.

However, there was a mocking/parody thread that was still up last I checked. Praise Blizz, get away with what you want.
03/12/2018 10:26 PMPosted by Etalla
then who the $#&*#$@*& gave you the power to delete posts.


Blizzard.
I mean at this point a 5 year old could think of a better loot system


I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


The epic pantheon trinket drop rate is pretty fair with blp kicking in each week that you don't get it. The blessing does need to be addressed now that we're a few weeks past when the first people got their 1000 ilvl. Simply changing it so that you can get 1 per difficulty each week makes a lot more sense at this point since progression races have been done for months.

But for Aman'thul, the mark was sorely missed. The last time an end of the expansion legendary was added to the loot table as a pure drop from the end boss of the xpac was Thori'dal from KJ in Sunwell. People hated that at the time and it was very meme worthy.

To see just how off the mark Aman'thul's was implemented, just compare it to Thori'dal. The drop chance for each is:

Thori'dal: 7%
Aman'thul: 0.0912%

(Note these are experimentally determined based on drop statistics and Aman'thul's drop chance is listed as an average over 15 weeks of kills)

If you were farming Sunwell with your guild during BC (as I was) you were approximately 76.75 times more likely to get this bow to drop than you are to get an Aman'thul's from Antorus.

The silly thing is that Thori'dal was vastly superior to the next bis bow you would use. But Aman'thul is only slightly superior than its corresponding epic pantheon trinket, and only for some specs!

Who knows, blp may be actually a thing and we just need a few more weeks of data to see its effects. But if this trinket doesn't have the same system in place, then there you go, that's the obvious suggestion. Implement blp toward getting an Aman'thul's once you have unlocked a 1000 ilvl epic trinket. It is such an obvious system to implement, I would be completely dumbfounded if no dev actually thought of it and brought it up during a meeting.
03/13/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Schied
If you were farming Sunwell with your guild during BC (as I was) you were approximately 76.75 times more likely to get this bow to drop than you are to get an Aman'thul's from Antorus.


The other thing is the personal loot. With thori'dal, a raid group could assign the bow so that the group itself benefits the most from it.

With the pantheon trinkets...it is completely random as to who gets it. In that sense, it is a break from this:

Posted by Ythisens
I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


For the first time, what you have is a powerful trinket that the raid group has utterly no control over. When you throw in the legendary trinket into that mix, it is a complete and utter cluster. Imagine if Warglaives functioned that way, and instead of your top dps getting it, your tank got it. You would be incredibly annoyed.

That's the problem here in a nutshell. A bit of RNG is fine. RNG on top of RNG on top of more RNG is not. It's one thing if we're allowed to make the best of random drops. It's another thing if not only are the drops random, but for one of the most powerful trinkets in the game, who GETS those drops is also random.

And that is what's annoying people about the RNG. The RNG is no longer complimentary to the systems where it just provides an edge of uncertainty. The RNG has become the main centerpiece of many systems, where players now feel more and more powerless with regards to their fates and outcomes irrespective of their effort and ability.
Hey guys! Just wanted to follow up with this since there was quite a bit of discussion and some really good feedback on how the Epic Pantheon Trinkets are awarded. Recently we've pushed forward a change before this current reset.

The Pantheon trinkets for drops after the first now obey your loot specializations. Previously it only followed your loot specialization for the first one and the second was random for your other specs.

Appreciate all of the feedback you guys have been giving us about this!
03/13/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! Just wanted to follow up with this since there was quite a bit of discussion and some really good feedback on how the Epic Pantheon Trinkets are awarded. Recently we've pushed forward a change before this current reset.

The Pantheon trinkets for drops after the first now obey your loot specializations. Previously it only followed your loot specialization for the first one and the second was random for your other specs.

Appreciate all of the feedback you guys have been giving us about this!


Here's hoping Blizzard learns to never make a raid altering item drop and be given randomly to random players. We're fine with RNG on drops, we're not fine when the healer/tank gets their offspec DPS trinkets before the DPS have their main spec one.
03/13/2018 06:10 PMPosted by Ythisens
Hey guys! Just wanted to follow up with this since there was quite a bit of discussion and some really good feedback on how the Epic Pantheon Trinkets are awarded. Recently we've pushed forward a change before this current reset.

The Pantheon trinkets for drops after the first now obey your loot specializations. Previously it only followed your loot specialization for the first one and the second was random for your other specs.

Appreciate all of the feedback you guys have been giving us about this!
Does this mean that if you already have the one for your current loot spec you can still get another one for a random spec? Or do you have to have the loot specialization set to another?
03/13/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Azevara
Does this mean that if you already have the one for your current loot spec you can still get another one for a random spec? Or do you have to have the loot specialization set to another?

I was wondering this as well. I keep my loot spec to holy at all times (still fishing for that last elusive legendary), but I'd like to be able to receive the ret or prot ones >.>
can you fix it so that when all you have all 1000 ilvl trinkets for your class, that the pantheon blessings don't drop? ORRRR make them BoA!!!!
03/13/2018 06:29 PMPosted by Seledrae
03/13/2018 06:25 PMPosted by Azevara
Does this mean that if you already have the one for your current loot spec you can still get another one for a random spec? Or do you have to have the loot specialization set to another?

I was wondering this as well. I keep my loot spec to holy at all times (still fishing for that last elusive legendary), but I'd like to be able to receive the ret or prot ones >.>


Also curious about this.

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