Nice rng for the patheon trinket

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03/06/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ssleak
The options are random loot, or guaranteed loot (which could be something like a currency or just a drop).

People don't continue to play if loot is just handed to you. People would complain endlessly if the only loot available was from a vendor and you just got coins all day long.

The system is the best available and to say you should be just given the BIS trinket outside of legendaries is hilarious stupid.

This doesnt mean every thing has to be RNG based, but the conversation here is solely the OPS claim that a 5 year old could design a better loot system, and then when asked for an alternative they just want it given to them.


Actually there is a third option and it should be applied to all aspects of the game where RNG affects player power. That's bad luck protection on items the increase player power.

Having the trinket be an RNG drop with a set amount of BLP would make it tolerable. This is the gap that things like valor used to fill.

Using the epic pantheon trinkets as example, sure first one can be a lower drop, but by 4th or 5th kill you should be pretty much guaranteed to get the drop.

Pure RNG on cosmetic items is fine, but BLP should be there for any push personal player power loot in the game.
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
03/06/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Nolasam
I mean at this point a 5 year old could think of a better loot system


I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


I don't know... maybe this late in the expansion it might be good to up the drop rate slightly on these trinkets. They're going to be useless soon enough, anyway.
Wow.. you've deleted my post twice. I wasn't offensive. I was making a correction to the blue's post. The blue said in its post that the legendary system for the Pantheon trinket is the very same system that's been in the game for 13 years. I broke down the leggo system in each of the previous expansions highlighting how they all differed and it was nixxed. I reposted taking care to be extra polite and it was also nixxed.
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
03/06/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Nolasam
I mean at this point a 5 year old could think of a better loot system


I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


To be fair, though, at the very least Aman'thul's should actually drop nowadays.

Because as it stands no item that powerful should be that rare that even people who have killed Mythic Argus haven't even SEEN one before, let alone gotten one for themselves.

EDIT: At the very least, some transparency on how that particular item drops is more than warranted at this point.
03/06/2018 11:35 AMPosted by Damonios
03/06/2018 11:25 AMPosted by Nolasam
... Here is a really good idea, Give everyone there damn trinket on the first kill, problem solved.Patheon trinkets have only existed for 1 expansion, yet you continue to put rng on top of rng, and frankly your pissing more people off then satisfying them.


Even better idea.. just send mine in the Mail so I will not have to mess around with all of that "playing the game" stuff.


Says the guy who hasn’t even touched raiding this expansion.
03/06/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Arwenna
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
...

I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


I don't know... maybe this late in the expansion it might be good to up the drop rate slightly on these trinkets. They're going to be useless soon enough, anyway.


Still have several months before we even see a pre-patch, and even more until BfA release... how is that soon?
03/06/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Exo
03/06/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Arwenna
...

I don't know... maybe this late in the expansion it might be good to up the drop rate slightly on these trinkets. They're going to be useless soon enough, anyway.


Still have several months before we even see a pre-patch, and even more until BfA release... how is that soon?


Because short of possible Mythic progression, there is nothing that you even need it for anymore. Technically it’s already useless for most people.
03/06/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Demensha
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
...

I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


How about for starters NO RNG! ANd it hasnt worked well because you have lost TONS and I mean TONS of players due to RNG.


This is purely speculative unless you can offer evidence to the contrary.
03/06/2018 03:32 PMPosted by Exo
03/06/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Arwenna
...

I don't know... maybe this late in the expansion it might be good to up the drop rate slightly on these trinkets. They're going to be useless soon enough, anyway.


Still have several months before we even see a pre-patch, and even more until BfA release... how is that soon?


Six months is like the blink of an eye. It's March. Legion goes away in September. AOTC will be leaving soon and the current and last PVP season of the xpac is ending pretty soon, as well. People are already getting ready to do their 6 month sub drop.
03/06/2018 12:09 PMPosted by Lestara
03/06/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Ythisens
...

I'd be eager to hear your suggestions on how it could be better. I mean, the existing one has functioned pretty well for the past 13 years for WoW specifically and for the past 20 years across an entire genre of games (other genres too, but you get my point).


I'm sorry, but this isn't entirely true.

You say this like WoW's loot system hasn't changed in 13 years, when in fact it changes nearly every expansion.

In vanilla, a raid boss dropped 3-4 pieces of loot indiscriminately (in the beginning not even caring if you were alliance and horde and dropping paladin and shaman gear regardless). I once waited 6 months for the helm of cenarius to drop. It was a frustrating system to say the least.

In TBC you added tokens to get tier pieces, this made the odds of loot dropping that no one needed a lot less likely and made it easier for everyone to get their tier gear.

In Wrath you added Justice and Valor points, which a person could build up doing various different things and then exchange them for certain pieces of raid gear that they have been unlucky to get yet.

Pandaria removed that system and added in reforging and upgrading. It also eventually added flex groups where the amount of gear that dropped varied based on your group size. It also added re-roll tokens.

WoD introduced personal loot, so no one had to fight over loot drops again.

Finally Legion made nearly all gear work for all specs, changing their stats based on the spec you were in. Additionally you just gave us all the weapons we would ever use for the expansion. You also added legendaries that would just randomly drop, with bad luck protection.

So we went from random, indiscriminate loot drops to targeted, one-size-fits-all-specs, personal loot with rerolls.

If you want my idea for what to do about Pantheon trinkets now: After you have an ilvl 1000 trinket, after an argus kill you can speak to Magni and exchange, like, 700 titan essences (or maybe like 3 blessings of the pantheon) for a pantheon trinket.
03/06/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Deydrania
Wow.. you've deleted my post twice. I wasn't offensive. I was making a correction to the blue's post. The blue said in its post that the legendary system for the Pantheon trinket is the very same system that's been in the game for 13 years. I broke down the leggo system in each of the previous expansions highlighting how they all differed and it was nixxed. I reposted taking care to be extra polite and it was also nixxed.


This thread is not discussing the Legendary systems in other expansions nor even the legendary trinket off Argus. I've said that twice and said why I was deleting off topic replies that don't apply to the Epic Pantheon Trinkets because that's not what is being discussed. Sorry for the confusion but I would recommend reading all of the replies before jumping in a thread (especially the blue ones since you can jump through them).
03/06/2018 03:09 PMPosted by Wariya
03/06/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Reivel
other clueless player answer with "its always RNG like this since vanilla",


Whats clueless about that?? you can't Counter argue against rng since vanilla so you call emm clueless ..........very mature bro


This is why you're clueless, you can technically counter RNG (albeit not hardcounter) in vanilla by using Master loot, loot council, or any point system available back then, please learn to read
03/06/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Nolasam
7 weeks and no pantheon trinket, yet others can get it in 1 week.Do you not see a flaw in your system?


It takes a bit, I got mine on the Third or fourth down of argus but I have guildies that still need it.

Just keep running it and you will get it eventually, we still haven’t gotten the tanking one but that is the last one our group needs. Just another reason to go every week I guess.
It is getting less and less motivating to play after weeks and weeks of getting Chaos Crystal in my Weekly Mythic+ Chest, nothing good has ever come out of it for a while.

Yesterday, I did some battle pets once again and realized at which point they are RNG sometimes.

My friends and I did a M+ 15 last week and they have been casual all of Legion, for them , a +15 was going to be really hard, yet the RNG rewarded them slots items that were filled with Legendaries.

For the past 4 weeks I have been getting bracers and waist (which both of these slots are filled with my BiS Legendary.)

But to come back on the topic of RNG Pantheon Trinks, It is something that is affecting the DPS and healing performance of everyone.

I can't wait to get Aman'Thul Vision someday so I can replace my really really bad Aggrammar's Conviction.
03/06/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Ythisens
03/06/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Deydrania
Wow.. you've deleted my post twice. I wasn't offensive. I was making a correction to the blue's post. The blue said in its post that the legendary system for the Pantheon trinket is the very same system that's been in the game for 13 years. I broke down the leggo system in each of the previous expansions highlighting how they all differed and it was nixxed. I reposted taking care to be extra polite and it was also nixxed.


This thread is not discussing the Legendary systems in other expansions nor even the legendary trinket off Argus. I've said that twice and said why I was deleting off topic replies that don't apply to the Epic Pantheon Trinkets because that's not what is being discussed. Sorry for the confusion but I would recommend reading all of the replies before jumping in a thread (especially the blue ones since you can jump through them).


On the topic of the Argus legendary trinket, I don't feel that it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion because, as it stands, none of us have a real indication of how it drops. The only person in my entire guild to have gotten one is someone's alt that they don't even play.

So just out of curiosity, how does Aman'thul's work in this situation? It seems bad enough that some people go several weeks without getting a regular Pantheon trinket, but as it stands even the people in Method, Exorsus, and other guilds that have had ALL versions of Argus on farm haven't even seen this drop yet.

As for suggestions for the Epic variants: why not have them work like the Garrosh heirlooms did in MoP where the one for your main spec is guaranteed to drop on your first non-LFR kill and the others become RNG from there? Because as it stands this is one of those kinds of really nice, really niche trinkets a lot of people would want in that niche where it's good.
I get the feeling that the trinket should have just been part of a kill Argus once quest and from there it was just kill him every week to get the upgrade. Think of it like the legendary ring or cloak. Obtaining the base item was a guaranteed thing. Sure one could argue that the ring and cloak took a lot of work to build up but given how much we had to do with the Artifact Weapon it is one of those things that they could have let slide.

RNG will always have a place in MMO, it is about finding that right balance, the expansion just simply has too much in it and then you get to an item like this that is super beneficial not to just an individual but to the raid as a whole. It definitely makes the desire if not the need for it much higher than a regular item. There is almost an expectation in many guilds that you have one and equip it even if the trinket is not all that great for you.
03/06/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Cloontang
03/06/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Ssleak
The options are random loot, or guaranteed loot (which could be something like a currency or just a drop).

People don't continue to play if loot is just handed to you. People would complain endlessly if the only loot available was from a vendor and you just got coins all day long.

The system is the best available and to say you should be just given the BIS trinket outside of legendaries is hilarious stupid.

This doesnt mean every thing has to be RNG based, but the conversation here is solely the OPS claim that a 5 year old could design a better loot system, and then when asked for an alternative they just want it given to them.


Actually there is a third option and it should be applied to all aspects of the game where RNG affects player power. That's bad luck protection on items the increase player power.

Having the trinket be an RNG drop with a set amount of BLP would make it tolerable. This is the gap that things like valor used to fill.

Using the epic pantheon trinkets as example, sure first one can be a lower drop, but by 4th or 5th kill you should be pretty much guaranteed to get the drop.

Pure RNG on cosmetic items is fine, but BLP should be there for any push personal player power loot in the game.


Tier sets are a huge power upgrade.

As are weapons in any expansion except Legiom.

Some BLP there too?

I wish we had some BLP for Deathbringers Will back in ICC...
The game was always really RNG reliant. And people always complained. I remember farming the same boss in vanilla or TBC waiting for a certain item to drop. It's just the usual "I want it now" mentality.
Give us a say in the RNG like you did with the Crucible, when you kill a boss, give us a choice of 2 or 3 pieces of gear, we can choose the best out of them. Give us some choice.

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