Feedback: Tol Dagor

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
Hi all,

A new Battle for Azeroth dungeon – Tol Dagor - is now available for testing on the Beta. In this thread, we'd like to gather as much of your feedback as possible regarding the new dungeon, once you've had a chance to run it.

Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated, including topics like:

  • The overall flow of the dungeon
  • Visuals, including creatures and environment
  • Boss encounters and their mechanics
  • Overall difficulty
  • Any bugs or unexpected behavior you may have encountered
  • Any other general thoughts about the dungeon


Thanks!
First Boss felt very undertuned. Maybe have more sandtraps spawn and then have the pushback during sandstorm move faster so as to make it harder to dodge the sand traps during that phase to add a bit more difficulty to the fight. Also her enrage mechanic did not seem to hit hard at all. Tanked on a Veng DH. Rest of the dungeon seems alright. The Worgen Boss whom I believe was second seemed to spawn randomly for us during a trash pull. Although his Mechanic of running around unlocked prison cages was cool. Third boss again mechanics seemed fun but was not altogether difficult to handle. Maybe if the Cinderstorm fires also ignited the barrels. Last Boss seemed fairly dismal as a Tank. Just stand tank and spank and dodge the crossfire and bombs. I saw something in the dungeon journal about a different azerite ammo type but the boss never seemed to cast it
Just to add to Laliandra's comments above regarding the first boss. I was able to solo it as a Protection Paladin (with the usual downscaled gear/level applied) after an instance restart killed our initial run.

The trash leading up to the Sand Queen was considerably more grueling than the boss itself.

As for the other bosses, I loved the cage opening mechanic of Jes Howls, but feel that the prisoners could've been a tad more threatening than they currently are. I just ponied through and dropped some Blessed Hammers along the way. Perhaps if we were stunned longer and he was able to release everyone before we could chase him down? Could follow it up with an enraged-type phase perhaps. Just a thought.
It looked like Jes Howl had some sort of Enraged Add Mechanic but like you said it was too easy to keep up with the boss and it was easy to interrupt instantly before the adds did any real damage
First boss feels absolutely undertuned. However the Ashvane trash feels WAY overtuned. They have a LOT of HP and feel like they slow the dungeon down a lot in a not fun way.

I like the reintroduction of the "Run away in fear" mechanic, though I have concerns about it in a higher level M+ situation where you can lose control of pulls like that.

The cannons I would say are the biggest thing to look at. They can take damage from players, sticking them in combat and preventing rez after combat. A tank can't really well... tank the mobs as the cannons deal damage to them, so it turns into a giant kite game.

The sniper mechanic on the last boss seems interesting, but there really isn't any incentive to soak it for your friend like the boss from BRH (prevents charges). Feels more like a tank mechanic (soak it for your friend if they get 2) than a general group mechanic.
Fun dungeon so far, my favorite bosses would have to be the 3rd and last ones. Didn't know the cannons would harm the players and ended with a few deaths in the group I was in.
the cannons harming the players did come as a bit of a surprise (and a wipe from my group lol). i overall enjoyed the dungeon.

i felt that some areas of mobs (mostly in the prison cells area) were really saturated, it was very hard to not pull a bunch of extra mobs when we did aoe pulls. the ashvane officer's handcuff ability happened really frequently, and i was silenced a lot because of it.

i would agree with the people above about the bosses, the first one seemed really easy in comparison to the others, but i thought the others had unique interactions (letting the prisoners out, having to move barrels). maybe having some additional delay for jes howlis because it did seem strange to be killing the prisoners as soon as they were released.
The cannons harming players was hard, but the knockback they do to friendlies made them extra punishing for melee.

No idea what cinderstorm or bombs do for 3rd boss. The mechanics overlapping weren't super clear, so I just ran out of everything and didn't do damage (as melee).

The dark ground visuals for the final boss were hard to see. Is the snipe supposed to 1 shot?

My biggest takeaway was the amount of trash seemed a little high. My wrists started acting up because of the amount of times I pressed whirlwind on the gauntlet and the outer ridge with the cannons.
I dont envy whomever draws the map for this dungeon, considering the number of elevation changes (though I really like the overall aesthetic and having a vertical dungeon of sorts). The flow itself, moving from beach-sewer-storage/prison-guardhouse-fortress roof makes sense geographically, and the flow of mobs from beasts->prisoners->guards makes sense as well. The differentiation between the prison and guard levels of the fortress may need a little more delineation (maybe some banners/etc. in the upper portions).

Sand Queen: I'll echo the others here, the sandstorm/Sand Trap elements make this interesting, but not quite enough, and if enough of the nearby enemies are cleared you have a pretty large area to avoid mechanics. Maybe have her summon her children whenever she burrows, or she causes something to happen to the battlefield to make less of it available? Maybe her burrow leaves behind a trail that damages (Like gyreworm), or Sand Traps expand more during the sandstorm? I think the idea is to have movement like the sea giant in Wrath of Az, but there isn't enough there for that.

Whew, lots of prisoners/patrols between the sewers and Jess. Mixed with the winding nature of the place, wasn't sure if they would end!

Jess Howls: Fun fight, good idea, like the daggers in the confined space, but his flash powder ability doesn't last quite long enough for him to get a good head start to release prisoners. We effectively caught up with him immediately.

Guards were a little tightly packed in a couple areas. Managed to snag 2-3 groups worth at once.

Third boss: Could use some kind of Fired Up mechanic to speed up the flames as the fight continues, as if you manage the barrels/flames correctly, they could pretty much not exist. Fun fight!

Overseer Korgus: Somewhat underwhelming in appearance, good fight otherwise, though the ground ability (Cross Ignition I think?) Isn't all that visible. Lost the tank to the cannon, as he didn't see it wheel around, so maybe find a way to increase the visibility of that? Managed him regardless, and we were lucky that folks weren't really targeted twice in a row for Deadeye.
Overall a solid dungeon that is going to be fun (or awful) on Mythic+.

Overseer Korgus: the notification for the cannon, or perhaps a verbal or better indicator 2-3 sec before may help. We did have a few deaths due to the cannon firing, but didn't realize it was happening.

Trash: Some trash pulls were respawning. There is an corner area near what appears to be a fireplace where two mobs were respawning about 2 min after being killed. The amount of trash may need to be adjusted, especially when M+ comes around as some affixes will be too punishing.
Not sure if its a matter of getting used to new classes (missing abilities), lack of gear or simply HP being out of wack with DPS but trash was taking an absolute eternity to die. No exaggeration, I've cleared M15+ that were quicker than this. I would compare the time it took a trash mob to die to the time it would take in a M18 or so on live with a decent group. As far as damage output, I don't think anyone died the whole time except on the last boss so it was simply a sponging issue.

Outside of the numbers I thought the dungeon was OK overall. It was nice to kill something besides demons for a change. The 3rd and 4th boss had some different mechanics that could be interesting in M+. 1st and 2nd were kinda straightforward. My other complaint is that trash from 1st to 3rd boss was pretty excessive. Reminded me of BRH in that way.
I really enjoyed this dungeon for the most part. The boss encounters where a real joy.
The Sand Queen was too easy I think. As a tank the only time I had to worry about the damage I was taking was when she enraged.
Jes Howlis was pure fun. The mechanics were fun overall. I really enjoyed when he opened the cells. It was unexpected mechanic and really fit the setting of the fight.
Knight Captain Valyri was something of a let down. While the barrel mechanic was interesting the limited range on the explosion from them mitigated the need to follow the mechanic.
Overseer Korgus was great. I was surprised to see he activates the cannon he is close to. I though it was just the main cannon that I started by and saw that when I moved him the closest one activated. The biggest issue with this boss is the ground graphic to warn for Cross Ignition is very dark and hard to see. This should be made more visible.

The overall setting of the dungeon was very enjoyable. Going from the bottom of the prison and working your way up to the offices was an interesting transition of settings.

My biggest overall complaint about this dungeon was the sheer amount of trash. It really felt like a grind in between bosses.
I queued into this with a random group earlier today. I really the dungeon visuals and overall premise of the infiltration via the sewers. However, I echo some concerns in this thread. I won't restate them as I don't want to be a broken record.

My primary concern and main point of feedback is the trash. The amount of it specifically between Sand Queen and the Worgen is just too much. At one point while clearing I wondered if we missed the boss because it's very unusual to go that long without encountering some big bad guy. The pacing felt off.

The other concern is the number of trash mobs that run in fear at low HP and would run into and aggro another trash pack. This is fine on normal or heroic but once we get to mythic+, some affixes will be very punishing with this mechanic in place.
TL;DR: Dungeon is neat. Bosses are fun. Trash takes way too long. Healers have very little to do.

I only managed to clear the dungeon up to the 3rd boss, as my tank and a DPS both dc'd along the ramparts to the boss and it took too long to find replacements. So far, though:

I enjoy the theme and visuals of the dungeon, and the 2 boss encounters i saw were neat. The first boss seemed incredibly easy, but I will chalk that up to being normal. However, if it is not dramatically tuned up by M+ level, it will be a letdown.

Trash is... incredibly unfun. So much so that I am not in any rush to get back in there and finish the dungeon. Given current tuning, they all feel like massive HP sponges with very little threat to them.

My group overall were definitely not great players or familiar with their classes, as they all seemed to be struggling doing their basic rotation and the use of CC/interrupts was practically nonexistent. Even with the tank losing aggro (he took forever to press Thrash and ignored extra pulls), I had to do almost no healing.

Were I not familiar with Fistweaving, I would have had almost nothing to do the entire dungeon. I did almost all of my healing through instant cast Enveloping Mist from TFT and Renewing Mists, pressing Vivify or Essence Font when I didn't feel like waiting for ReM to come off CD. Even pulling multiple packs didn't change the healing requirement, it was pitifully easy even for Normal. I honestly can't imagine healing that dungeon without DPSing. And still, even with 5 people doing DPS, it took ages to kill every pack.

It doesn't help that almost every mob in there has some form of "Deal/Take less damage". Granted all of which have a counter in some way, be it through Purge/Spellsteal, Interrupt, or just a hard CC. I was rotating through Leg Sweep/Paralysys/Ring of Peace off CD just for the sake of trying to make trash not take forever. I even started using Revival just as an AoE dispel for the Demoralizing Shout. The most threatening mechanic in the dungeon should not be "this will make this take even longer".

The only time there was any sense of urgency was when the second boss used his daggers, and even with the entire group failing to execute that mechanic due to every fear going off, the damage was negligible.

I mentioned that a tank and DPS dc'd during the ramparts to the 3rd boss. Even with this in mind and without CC, we were still pulling 1-2 packs at a time and I was still healing primarily through instant casts; with still plenty of time to Fistweave. We had a death when we pulled 4 packs with a ret paladin tank; and a second death due to the warlock in the cannon not being able to be targeted by heals (but still hit by NPCs). Note that I said deaths, not wipes - I stayed alive with no trouble for them to return and finish them off.

03/21/2018 02:09 PMPosted by Reese
The other concern is the number of trash mobs that run in fear at low HP and would run into and aggro another trash pack. This is fine on normal or heroic but once we get to mythic+, some affixes will be very punishing with this mechanic in place.
I hope they keep this. It was a refreshing surprise to see mobs that run again. Roots/slows/stuns exist, it's a welcome change to see that they might be needed in PvE, alternatively, better positioning would help.
the bosses were all interesting with some really cool mechanics, but if i hear "you'll get caught in the crossfire" one more time i might go lie down in the road.

between bosses, the instance is frustrating. i know prisons aren't supposed to be Visually Exciting, but it's a cramped, interminable climb up floor after floor of the same trash pulls in the same rooms and the same corridors with the same cramped camera angles. my group was going at a pretty good clip and pulling 2 groups at a time and it was still over ten minutes of trash between boss #1 and boss #2. that is just too much trash. it gets better once you get onto the ramparts with the cannons, but wow.

tuning seems fine. we did have a death, but he got caught in the crossfire. he was well-warned.
02/25/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Shinrael

I like the reintroduction of the "Run away in fear" mechanic, though I have concerns about it in a higher level M+ situation where you can lose control of pulls like that.


Speaking of M+ situations, I have a feeling that the narrow corridors of this dungeon will make Sanguine an absolute nightmare between the first and second bosses in particular.
I think the bosses could all use some re-tuning, and perhaps the second bosses motivation mechanic could be reworked to be more gauntlet-esque to add strain to the encounter. A lot of hardships in the dungeon come from not damage or actual strain expected coming from Legion Dungeons, but from unpolished indicators or just completely ignored mechanics on bosses one and two. The cannons on the fourth boss need to be readjusted in terms of visibility, as they go completely against the grain of visual indicator heavy Legion.
I forgot to add that the worgen boss is pull-able through the wall with aoe which seems like it would be wise to remove.
The dungeon feels incredibly long (Between Sand Queen and Jes took at least 10minutes). Starting from the beginning and running to the end took roughly 4 minutes from start to finish. Discounting the trash this feels very long compared to Legion dungeons.

The trash felt really tedious and boring, most seemed to only auto attack or range attack and do nothing special for the first half of the dungeon.

Heavy Cannon seems to knock allies around too (Doesn't do damage. Munitions still ignite and do friendly fire damage to allies.

[Jes Howlis]
The gauntlet he runs at ~50% felt incredibly trivial because the trash mobs only auto-attack. We ended up just running to the end and burning the boss. Saw no reason to stop and kill them. Perhaps make them give a stacking buff to Howlis to make sure we stop or to give the gauntlet a purpose.
[Overseer Korgus]
Heavy Cannon's Massive Blast being a 1 shot mechanic is incredibly unforgiving for a normal dungeon.

Overall it felt like I was back in Dead Mines with the mobs constantly running away at low health and having incredibly basic abilities. The later half the dungeon seemed fine and interesting but the first half was very dull. Bloated with trash and a very winding path of circling around the jails. The outer of the building with the cannons felt interesting and fun with the cannon stunning mobs. Perhaps shift the trash over to that area to create strategies of pulling multiple packs and turbo blasting them down.
03/16/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Dronzor
Not sure if its a matter of getting used to new classes (missing abilities), lack of gear or simply HP being out of wack with DPS but trash was taking an absolute eternity to die. No exaggeration, I've cleared M15+ that were quicker than this. I would compare the time it took a trash mob to die to the time it would take in a M18 or so on live with a decent group. As far as damage output, I don't think anyone died the whole time except on the last boss so it was simply a sponging issue.

Outside of the numbers I thought the dungeon was OK overall. It was nice to kill something besides demons for a change. The 3rd and 4th boss had some different mechanics that could be interesting in M+. 1st and 2nd were kinda straightforward. My other complaint is that trash from 1st to 3rd boss was pretty excessive. Reminded me of BRH in that way.


I agree with most of what you said, the trash seemed to hit rather weakly, but took FOREVER to die, we were pulling two groups at a time just to be able to AoE them a bit quicker, and I know part of that might be because ilvl is being set to 160 instead of the 185 we start at.

It was a shock at first to deal with humanoids running away, we've been dealing with fearless demons for so long it's nice to have that mechanic back again.

Bosses seemed okay, some interesting mechanics that needed to be LoS'ed, incoming damage didn't seem to be too high for any of them.

In summary, pretty fun instance, perhaps slightly less trash or lower HP for the trash pulls and it would be better.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum