Feedback: Tol Dagor

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
03/23/2018 05:25 PMPosted by Prodigy
I forgot to add that the worgen boss is pull-able through the wall with aoe which seems like it would be wise to remove.
This may be an issue with the abilities themselves instead of the boss or location.

There's actually a number of AoE abilities that don't obey LoS on Live currently, though most of them are either short-range, procs, or "doing X spreads Y DoT" abilities so they often go unnoticed. I can't remember specifics off the top of my head right now unfortunately, but I've definitely been able to reproduce some abilities pulling through walls in recent months.
Just did this one. Most of us had not done it before. Overall, a lot of trash that might get thinned down a bit, fun bosses, fun dungeon.

Jes Howlis being able to be pulled through a wall caused a wipe, but we got him down the next time.

The cannons on the corners were fun. Taking turns, we hopped in them and helped blast mobs down. No one died from this, either player damage was decreased or we had a really good healer (which we did anyway).

The overseer had some fun to look at and move around mechanics.
-- FALL THROUGH WORLD AND CRASH CLIENT --

I have a cautionary tale related to Tol Dagor the outdoor zone. I levelled up my new Alpha character to 116 in about 29 hours or so. I explored every inch of places we were allowed to go. Plus I found many places we are not yet allowed into. Because exploring is one of my favourite things to do in a new world. So i often find glitches and things in places normal folks won't.

This time curiosity not only killed the cat, it repeatedly crashes the cat's client and now the cat's character is unusable.

I made my way off the east coast of Tiragarde Sound to find the island fortress and lighthouse on Tol Dagor (not the instanced dungeon). I died by drowning in the water because well I'm dumb and went AFK at the wrong time. But when I came back my client had completely logged out. So i logged back in to find my demon hunter was now a ghostly shadow of my prior 116 uberness. So;
- click ENTER,
- Load world,
- See Spirit,
- Fall through world and crash client.
Repeat 20 times, trying various ways to get out of ridiculous predicament...

Since there is no Customer Service for dummies like me on an Alpha Server, this character is now unusable. I was so proud of getting to 116 before 98% of the rest of the population. I had submitted hundreds of comments in game through feedback. My cockiness turned to Karma.

I know that toon is going to be deleted at the end of Alpha but i really grinded for a few days to level up. I was hoping to use it to explore more. Once at 116 the fights were not gruelling anymore.

BE WARNED YE CATS O CURIOSITY!!!
Do not travel to Tol Dagor lest the spirit of infinite droppiness get thee too !!!

- Cheers
Wanted to chime in and say:

1) Being able to control pulls and nerf the 2nd boss as a rogue with lockpick felt AWESOME, please keep that.

2) The last boss is probably my favorite bossfight of all four dungeons. So much fun. I would recommend giving the cannons a better visual indicator though, as with the mostly top-down camera angle and a lot of spell effects it was sometimes hard to see the muzzle flash.
I enjoyed the instance. First boss was still too easy in comparison. The visual feel of the dungeon was really good. I thought it was reminiscent of Shadowfang Keep; but yet new as well.

The trash was a bit excessive and hard not to pull all the mobs at one time. Area of agro was large.

This was my favorite so far.
Potential Bug: Is there supposed to be a visual indication on the ground for the ability "Cross Ignition" from Overseer Korgus? The ability description mentions "burning lanes" but neither I nor other members of my group were able to see anything indicating which directions the ability would go. It felt arbitrary whether you were able to dodge the ability or not.

Additionally, also had a few occasions where I was unable to LOS the Jes Howlis ability "Flashing Daggers." I only noticed it happening during the second phase after he ran and opened all the cages. Happened both times I completed the dungeon, though I guess it is possible I wasn't actually behind the wall cutouts.
Gonna echo the trash taking too long problem. It's like all the mobs have the same health. Stuff like the gunners should have less then the vanguards
Party Composition: 5 11/11M Raiders.
Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dA3qYb2RtafKjT9r#fight=last&type=damage-done
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YabpAkv0AC8

Done on Build 26367.

Trash to First Boss

Pretty Boring except for the Eruption mechanic (ID: 267203). Seemed completely random. On the video there looks to be a small dust cloud? Not sure. If there is an animation its not very visible.

First Boss

Nothing special. Initial impression would be that the Submerge/Erupt mechanic will become terrible on Tyrannical keys, but I'll wait for M+ to actually comment more on that.

Trash to Second Boss

Don't mind the lots of trash, but some of the trash in this area sucks.
- Sewer Vicejaw: Massive Chomp [258079] kinda sucks for tanks, I assume that's the intent but it stacks relatively fast even for normal and this will be a group you just have to kite and stun (which are nerfed now).
- Ironhide Thug: Debilitating Shout [258128] is just overly punishing for melee. As in Legion dungeons, many things are just outranged for ranged characters. This is no exception. With a range of only 20 yards, ranged should never get hit by it. Yeah, it can be stunned/displaced/LoS'ed but I feel like the shout, if cast should affect all targets in LoS, rather than just melee characters. Speaking for Normal Mode -50% damage for 12 seconds is a long time. Heroic -75% damage means you need to control them even more, OR just outrange them, especially since you can't kick the cast.
- Bilge Rat Seaspeaker - Love the idea that you either kick or purge the shield bubble off him. Good choice and leads to different choices when you have a more caster group (purge) and a more melee oriented group (more kicks)

Absolutely love the extra buffs mechanic. Though wisdom seems random underpowered compared to the other 4. Plenty of keys which is good.

Second Boss

Can be pulled through the wall, allowing you to tank him where he ends up after the 50% transition anyways. Even if you couldn't pull him through the wall, if you just tank him there, all the adds will funnel to you anyways. 2 person kick rotation for the fear feels acceptable.

Trash to Third Boss

Slightly disappointed you removed Friendly Fire on the cannons, but it's obviously why it had to be done. Players in the cannon are able to hold aggro on mobs they've damage and mobs are allowed to hit the person inside the cannon. Seems odd.

Third Boss

Awesome mechanics. Normal mode, so I don't expect too much but excited to see the fight on Heroic/Mythic where protecting them are more important. On Normal, something might have bugged out and we ended up getting 4 barrels. Not sure if that's intended.

Final Boss

On Build 26367, Cross Ignitions animation has disappeared. Completely random if you get hit by it or not. The environment's cannons also now don't seem to fire at players and just fire straight? Seems like something happened with this boss. Enviromental cannons are hilarious to watch someone die to the cannon blast unaware, so I would definitely like to see them aim at players again.

He also seems to not have a set attack pattern for Deadeye. In this last time, he did it only once throughout the entire fight. In a previous dungeon, he actually used it multiple times to force multiple people to soak it.

---

Overall, I have concerns about the length of the dungeon as well as this dungeon on certain M+ affixes (Bolster, Necrotic, Teeming) but I'll wait until testing on those is live. With many mobs that run away when close to death and potentially pulling extra trash, it'll probably be rough.

I love the vary aspects of class utility in the dungeon - Purges, Kicks, Lock Picks all can lead to different strategies.
04/11/2018 09:55 PMPosted by Squishei
Party Composition: 5 11/11M Raiders.
Logs: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dA3qYb2RtafKjT9r#fight=last&type=damage-done
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YabpAkv0AC8

Done on Build 26367.

Trash to First Boss

Pretty Boring except for the Eruption mechanic (ID: 267203). Seemed completely random. On the video there looks to be a small dust cloud? Not sure. If there is an animation its not very visible.

First Boss

Nothing special. Initial impression would be that the Submerge/Erupt mechanic will become terrible on Tyrannical keys, but I'll wait for M+ to actually comment more on that.

Trash to Second Boss

Don't mind the lots of trash, but some of the trash in this area sucks.
- Sewer Vicejaw: Massive Chomp [258079] kinda sucks for tanks, I assume that's the intent but it stacks relatively fast even for normal and this will be a group you just have to kite and stun (which are nerfed now).
- Ironhide Thug: Debilitating Shout [258128] is just overly punishing for melee. As in Legion dungeons, many things are just outranged for ranged characters. This is no exception. With a range of only 20 yards, ranged should never get hit by it. Yeah, it can be stunned/displaced/LoS'ed but I feel like the shout, if cast should affect all targets in LoS, rather than just melee characters. Speaking for Normal Mode -50% damage for 12 seconds is a long time. Heroic -75% damage means you need to control them even more, OR just outrange them, especially since you can't kick the cast.
- Bilge Rat Seaspeaker - Love the idea that you either kick or purge the shield bubble off him. Good choice and leads to different choices when you have a more caster group (purge) and a more melee oriented group (more kicks)

Absolutely love the extra buffs mechanic. Though wisdom seems random underpowered compared to the other 4. Plenty of keys which is good.

Second Boss

Can be pulled through the wall, allowing you to tank him where he ends up after the 50% transition anyways. Even if you couldn't pull him through the wall, if you just tank him there, all the adds will funnel to you anyways. 2 person kick rotation for the fear feels acceptable.

Trash to Third Boss

Slightly disappointed you removed Friendly Fire on the cannons, but it's obviously why it had to be done. Players in the cannon are able to hold aggro on mobs they've damage and mobs are allowed to hit the person inside the cannon. Seems odd.

Third Boss

Awesome mechanics. Normal mode, so I don't expect too much but excited to see the fight on Heroic/Mythic where protecting them are more important. On Normal, something might have bugged out and we ended up getting 4 barrels. Not sure if that's intended.

Final Boss

On Build 26367, Cross Ignitions animation has disappeared. Completely random if you get hit by it or not. The environment's cannons also now don't seem to fire at players and just fire straight? Seems like something happened with this boss. Enviromental cannons are hilarious to watch someone die to the cannon blast unaware, so I would definitely like to see them aim at players again.

He also seems to not have a set attack pattern for Deadeye. In this last time, he did it only once throughout the entire fight. In a previous dungeon, he actually used it multiple times to force multiple people to soak it.

---

Overall, I have concerns about the length of the dungeon as well as this dungeon on certain M+ affixes (Bolster, Necrotic, Teeming) but I'll wait until testing on those is live. With many mobs that run away when close to death and potentially pulling extra trash, it'll probably be rough.

I love the vary aspects of class utility in the dungeon - Purges, Kicks, Lock Picks all can lead to different strategies.


Squishei,

Thanks for the feedback! Do you recall what abilities or process you used to pull Jes Howlis through the wall?

Squishei,

Thanks for the feedback! Do you recall what abilities or process you used to pull Jes Howlis through the wall?


I also had a problem with that boss, but it's not the same situation. I was playing a female highmountain shaman and I was on the floor right below him, I used bull rush to catch up to the tank and somehow I got teleported to Jes Howlis and RIP me.
04/12/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Skordyn
Squishei,

Thanks for the feedback! Do you recall what abilities or process you used to pull Jes Howlis through the wall?


Starfall. It's always Starfall :)

That also reminds me there are other cases where Starfall likes to go through walls. in the dungeon, most notably
- On the stairs between Prison levels: These mobs will evade bug until the end of time causing you to remain in combat. I don't know where these mobs actually are.
- Through the prison gate of Jes Howlis as mentioned before.
- On the outer wall (cannon area): It was in a previous pull on the dungeon, I don't have footage of it anymore, but it was those flamethrower guys with the frontal fire cleave at the tank. They would just fire randomly through the wall (not hitting anything, but you could see the animation) and keeping you in combat.

Starfall seems to be a relatively common problem even throughout Legion's Maw of Souls or Lower Karazhan, so especially in a close quarter-like dungeon, I hope it can be fixed. (Also Incap Roar/Thrash and I'm sure other similar abilities)

One more note: In cells with a Factional Hostage AND a caster enemy. The caster enemy doesn't move out unless kicked, and the door closes quite quickly, evade bugging it and forcing you to open it again later to leave combat. It would be nice if all enemies would step out of the cell before engaging in combat to avoid this issue.
I ran Tol Gar on my guardian druid several times over the past week and a half so all my feedback is purely from a tank perspective.

Enjoyable dungeon for the most part. I didn't find it difficult at all, but pretty normal for a normal dungeon. I liked how we went from the darkened beach, up through the sewers to the jail then to the ramparts ending on the roof. it kept the visuals changing which kept the dungeon from becoming old visually. my only complaint is the jail portion got old fast, probably because there were a lot of adds with little mechanics that took forever to die. On my first run through the dungeon I was relieved to find there wasn't yet another floor to the jail. it wasn't till my second run through that I realized how short it actually was.

add wise most of them don't have to much of note before the ramparts. I did enjoy the mix of add type in the jail section. (not sure if I'm just not observant or they changed of late because I didn't remember such a wide selection of variety when I ran it today.) that said on the beach and inside the jail all the adds seemed to boil down to grab as much as you can survive and aoe them down.
On the ramparts I felt add knowledge and control on higher difficulties will become more fun. even on lower difficulty they had some good mechanics to watch out for and react to which made them far more engaging. I'm all for aoe adds, especially in that jail portion but perhaps giving the adds on the beach a bit more would shake it up a bit so it's not a mindless aoe fest till the end.

Boss mechanics tiered up with each boss. the sand queen I'm sure had mechanics that were important and I saw them going off but they gave me little pause and her burrowing was only an annoyance little little danger but my perspective of that could be scewed as a tank.

Jes was a bit more interesting, I would like to see the part were he runs away a bit more of a gauntlet but the setup probably ends up that way at a higher difficulty. as of now I had little problem just running all the adds to him to aoe them down. his daggers where you're supposed to hide I found a bit troublesome as I couldn't find to many places to hide as he's parked in a hallway. there's some finagling I can do give hiding spots but they seem iffy at best. then again I only ended up trying to hide myself on one occasion. He does have a solid interrupt mechanic I can see being key on higher difficulties if missed.

Valyir is a mixed bag. I really enjoyed the barrel mechanic and I like the experimentation of different type of mechanics. I can see the placement of said barrels being more important on higher levels when they can do significant damage. that said unless I was missing something they didn't add to much strategy wise beyond move them out of the way of the fire and for when they explode. be cool if we could use them to our advantage somehow. maybe turning them on her and getting some extra damage or a debuff. I did see a visual which looked like a purple shield around the barrels but I'm not sure what that meant at all I am hoping that means something positive for us but it didn't seem to do anything when I ran to it, nor do I see anything in the dungeon journal. Besides that she didn't seem to do much else except light up barrels that we had to manage so she was pretty straight forward in the end. it will be interesting to see her on higher difficulty when the barrels mean something substantial.

Korgus has a lot of potential, but is ultimately a tank and spank with a little flair. deadeye seemed to naturally rotate it's targets making the debuff not mean much as long as you were paying attention whereas a fight in which it always picked the same target could lead to strategy of a rotating soak order if the damage is as lethal as it claims. the major disappointment however was the cannons. one cannon that pretty much only fires one direction, and briefly a second on a completely different rotation is a gimmick not a mechanic. my dream is on mythic all of the cannons are operational, but for normal two or three would feel better and actually give players something to dodge and watch for. as of now I can sit in my safe little corner and ignore them completely.

overall, I liked the place, the jail adds could use a bit of tweaking to make that part run smoother, but most of the bosses have a lot of potential. I'm excited to see it at a higher difficulty.
Drones on first boss are intense took us a few goes to deal with them ;o)
The movement restriction on the end boss made life interesting too.
Good times were had by all.
for some reason I can not see cross ignition on the last boss. projected texture is on and all setting on ultra yet it doesn't show. I've seen it on streamers clients it's really annoying not being able to avoid it.

Thanks for the feedback! Do you recall what abilities or process you used to pull Jes Howlis through the wall?


My group managed to pull through the wall with a monks Chi Burst
Cross ignition needs a visual. Im not sure if its bugged or not, but a wipe mechanic on a normal dungeon needs some kind of visual so people know where the angle is.

we wiped about 4 times because its too unclear as to where it will shoot.
Please for all that is mighty take a look at how heartstopper is tuned

To move just a step it ramps up to nearly 1/4 of the entire bar and to dodge certain mechanics you can become easily stunned and as a result wipe.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jN4tC2B6azkWdZYR/#fight=last&type=damage-taken
The issue of Cross Ignition not having any ground effect makes the final fight very difficult. Other than that I loved Jes Howlis. The other two bosses were fine, and I'll echo that there may have been too much trash.
Tol Dagor has been temporarily closed until a new build is available.
Completed it all buggy before it was closed. Kind of feel like a badass now. :D

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