XP From Dungeons

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11/08/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
11/08/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Yonbi
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Dude seriously.

You can't nerf something, then bring it back, and think "its an improvement".

They tried the same non-sense with mob hp. Buffed it to 300% more, then "nerfed" it down to 20% more and called it "fixed".

Just reminds me of those looney toons where they just keep playing games handing you money and you handing them back change, until in the end the character is duped and ends up with nothing in his hands.


With this buff everything regarding to leveling will be an improvement. Sorry some of us hated the mindless 2 button mash that was leveling before the changes.
Pretty much why I wish they would of just buffed the xp you get wearing heirlooms up another 50%. That would make them give a 100% xp bonus you get while having looms equipped, and add more, if its still not enough xp gained. That, and revert the dungeon xp nerfs which is what this thread is supposed to be discussing. That would make both sides of the argument happy imo. Want to level the way it is currently, then don't equip looms. Want to level like it was pre 7.3.5 then use the heirlooms. I prefer leveling in dungeons, and have for years. Already seen all their copy pasted quests over the years, and smelled all the pixel roses. They broke something that many people enjoyed doing for many, many years with this so called dungeon bug lie. Now revert the nerf, and let folks level the way they prefer instead of shoehorning everyone into aspects of the game they don't like. Some people prefer quest leveling, and some like dungeon leveling, or bg leveling. They need to stop punishing folks that want to level with friends regardless if the person is higher level or not. They spew that rubbish about wanting to encourage folks to group up, and do stuff together? Well guess what gizzard. Part of that is grouping with higher, or lower level friends, and guidies, and helping them out!
11/08/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
Sorry some of us hated the mindless 2 button mash that was leveling before the changes.


And the 4 button slog it has become is better how exactly?
11/08/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Yonbi
11/08/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
Sorry some of us hated the mindless 2 button mash that was leveling before the changes.


And the 4 button slog it has become is better how exactly?


Or even worse, you hit the same button more times!
11/08/2018 02:06 PMPosted by Velara
11/08/2018 01:16 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
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Sorry but you are spewing false information. That's simply not accurate. From 60-70 it's practically a 40% increase. Almost a 20% increase across the entire sprectrum save 110-120.

I am not spewing anything but you are arguing with basic math.

There is an increase in cap till level 40, and then the xp cap is gradually reduced. That's hardly "the entire spectrum". At level 60. the reduction peaks, then drops off again. And if you think a +/- 20% reduction will compensate for the changes made by 7.35 which included not only substantially raised XP caps, but lowered XP rewards as well, plus a nerf to heirlooms, you are just kidding yourself. It's a drop in the bucket.


I concur it is basic math and is just a drop in the bucket that we lost.
11/08/2018 02:42 PMPosted by Ranall
11/08/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
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With this buff everything regarding to leveling will be an improvement. Sorry some of us hated the mindless 2 button mash that was leveling before the changes.
Pretty much why I wish they would of just buffed the xp you get wearing heirlooms up another 50%. That would make them give a 100% xp bonus you get while having looms equipped, and add more, if its still not enough xp gained. That, and revert the dungeon xp nerfs which is what this thread is supposed to be discussing. That would make both sides of the argument happy imo. Want to level the way it is currently, then don't equip looms. Want to level like it was pre 7.3.5 then use the heirlooms. I prefer leveling in dungeons, and have for years. Already seen all their copy pasted quests over the years, and smelled all the pixel roses. They broke something that many people enjoyed doing for many, many years with this so called dungeon bug lie. Now revert the nerf, and let folks level the way they prefer instead of shoehorning everyone into aspects of the game they don't like. Some people prefer quest leveling, and some like dungeon leveling, or bg leveling. They need to stop punishing folks that want to level with friends regardless if the person is higher level or not. They spew that rubbish about wanting to encourage folks to group up, and do stuff together? Well guess what gizzard. Part of that is grouping with higher, or lower level friends, and guidies, and helping them out!


This is what this thread was all about to begin with. "Cloak and Dagger" by Blizzard.

Fool me once shame on you; Fool me twice shame on me!
11/08/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
11/08/2018 01:20 PMPosted by Yonbi
...

Dude seriously.

You can't nerf something, then bring it back, and think "its an improvement".

They tried the same non-sense with mob hp. Buffed it to 300% more, then "nerfed" it down to 20% more and called it "fixed".

Just reminds me of those looney toons where they just keep playing games handing you money and you handing them back change, until in the end the character is duped and ends up with nothing in his hands.


With this buff everything regarding to leveling will be an improvement. Sorry some of us hated the mindless 2 button mash that was leveling before the changes.


The leveling will be an improvement from what it is but it won't give us back what it was in pre 7.3.5; The very reason this thread was started for will not be corrected according to what I've read.

You mentioned the 2 button mash and I'm not exactly sure when you started playing but this game was VERY engaging in the beginning up until around about after Wotlk; In those days the players would have to do math to figure what amount was needed for the stats; Example: Too much Agility, Strength, Intellect, Dodge, Parry, Block, Etc all had to be figured out by the players and too much of any one stat was a waste and too less caused either Tanks to get crushed, DPS to be low and Healers couldn't keep up.

The game was very engaging during those days but now has become way too easy when it comes to character specs and also the amount of spells we had was enormous and had to be rotated accordingly; Also profession meant something in those days which now most are useless.

I remember Hunters had to make sure they had enough ammo prior to a Raid/Dungeon and if they ran out they would borrow ammo from other players.

Engineers could craft special arrows and bullets that would increase damage; Blacksmiths had sharpening stones for blade weapons and counterweights for maces to cause increased damage, Every profession had something for everyone which kept a good economy in the AH.

But the game was "FUN" and now it has become more of a game of time consumption to pad pockets for investors.

Blizzard simplified the game but made it too simple imo.
11/08/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Dumbeldorf
<span class="truncated">...</span> Pretty much why I wish they would of just buffed the xp you get wearing heirlooms up another 50%. That would make them give a 100% xp bonus you get while having looms equipped, and add more, if its still not enough xp gained. That, and revert the dungeon xp nerfs which is what this thread is supposed to be discussing. That would make both sides of the argument happy imo. Want to level the way it is currently, then don't equip looms. Want to level like it was pre 7.3.5 then use the heirlooms. I prefer leveling in dungeons, and have for years. Already seen all their copy pasted quests over the years, and smelled all the pixel roses. They broke something that many people enjoyed doing for many, many years with this so called dungeon bug lie. Now revert the nerf, and let folks level the way they prefer instead of shoehorning everyone into aspects of the game they don't like. Some people prefer quest leveling, and some like dungeon leveling, or bg leveling. They need to stop punishing folks that want to level with friends regardless if the person is higher level or not. They spew that rubbish about wanting to encourage folks to group up, and do stuff together? Well guess what gizzard. Part of that is grouping with higher, or lower level friends, and guidies, and helping them out!


This is what this thread was all about to begin with. "Cloak and Dagger" by Blizzard.

Fool me once shame on you; Fool me twice shame on me!
Don't know about the cloak and dagger, but I call it "the dungeon bug bs". Used to believe the reason they nuked dungeon xp was because they wanted to push their over priced cash shop boosts. But I don't believe that much at all now. But I do believe it had everything to do with their new gimmick called allied races. They have known people have power leveled in dungeons for over 10 years. Hell there is plenty of evidence on sites like youtube, and other sites with video upload dates from back in 2007, 08, and on up until the 7.3.5 showing guilds, and friends helping friends level in dungeons. And it took Blizzard over 10 years to discover this bug lol? Nope. Dev 1 says to dev 2. Hey dev 2, people are leveling these new allied races way to quickly, and getting all that new pixelated cosmetic gear to fast, we need to do something about that! Dev 2" I know what we can do". This idiot playerbase believes anything we tell them, so we will just call something they have been doing since The Burning crusade a bug, and problem solved. That's a great idea dev number2 get to work on how we are going to explain it to the players. No worries dev number1, I already told you they believe anything we tell them, so it doesn't matter lol.
11/08/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Tentaclatrix
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I am not spewing anything but you are arguing with basic math.

There is an increase in cap till level 40, and then the xp cap is gradually reduced. That's hardly "the entire spectrum". At level 60. the reduction peaks, then drops off again. And if you think a +/- 20% reduction will compensate for the changes made by 7.35 which included not only substantially raised XP caps, but lowered XP rewards as well, plus a nerf to heirlooms, you are just kidding yourself. It's a drop in the bucket.


You're going to have to be more specific here son, what on earth are you talking about? Are you implying something from a patch previous to BFA?

Because it's really simple, everything (especially past lvl 40) will be reduced, as in LEVELS WILL BE EASIER TO GAIN COMPARED TO LIVE ON 8.1! It couldn't be more clear.

Are you referring to levels post World scaling? If so your argument is still flawed considering we don't have to CONSTANTLY move ourselves from one zone to the next, there are more variables than simply "mah XP gain".

First, not your son.

Second, no, I'm not arguing about anything, I posted data showing the XP cap differential between a patch prior to 7.35 (when things were right) and the 8.1 patch on the PTR.

The numbers speak for themselves.

My opinion, is that this is a relatively insubstantial increase, based on what existed before 7.35. I'm not trying to persuade you, this is simply my opinion. Feel free to disagree.
...

This is what this thread was all about to begin with. "Cloak and Dagger" by Blizzard.

Fool me once shame on you; Fool me twice shame on me!
Don't know about the cloak and dagger, but I call it "the dungeon bug bs". Used to believe the reason they nuked dungeon xp was because they wanted to push their over priced cash shop boosts. But I don't believe that much at all now. But I do believe it had everything to do with their new gimmick called allied races. They have known people have power leveled in dungeons for over 10 years. Hell there is plenty of evidence on sites like youtube, and other sites with video upload dates from back in 2007, 08, and on up until the 7.3.5 showing guilds, and friends helping friends level in dungeons. And it took Blizzard over 10 years to discover this bug lol? Nope. Dev 1 says to dev 2. Hey dev 2, people are leveling these new allied races way to quickly, and getting all that new pixelated cosmetic gear to fast, we need to do something about that! Dev 2" I know what we can do". This idiot playerbase believes anything we tell them, so we will just call something they have been doing since The Burning crusade a bug, and problem solved. That's a great idea dev number2 get to work on how we are going to explain it to the players. No worries dev number1, I already told you they believe anything we tell them, so it doesn't matter lol.


You are absolutely correct imo; What I was referring to when I said "Cloak And Dagger" was when Blizzard snuck in this with patch 7.3.5 and stabbed us players in the back.
...

You're going to have to be more specific here son, what on earth are you talking about? Are you implying something from a patch previous to BFA?

Because it's really simple, everything (especially past lvl 40) will be reduced, as in LEVELS WILL BE EASIER TO GAIN COMPARED TO LIVE ON 8.1! It couldn't be more clear.

Are you referring to levels post World scaling? If so your argument is still flawed considering we don't have to CONSTANTLY move ourselves from one zone to the next, there are more variables than simply "mah XP gain".

First, not your son.

Second, no, I'm not arguing about anything, I posted data showing the XP cap differential between a patch prior to 7.35 (when things were right) and the 8.1 patch on the PTR.

The numbers speak for themselves.

My opinion, is that this is a relatively insubstantial increase, based on what existed before 7.35. I'm not trying to persuade you, this is simply my opinion. Feel free to disagree.


I for one know you are correct as I myself have done the math also and came to the same calculation. It's just a drop in the bucket of what was taken from us from our heirlooms to "XP FROM DUNGEONS" which is a deal breaker for me.
First, not your son.

Second, no, I'm not arguing about anything, I posted data showing the XP cap differential between a patch prior to 7.35 (when things were broken) and the 8.1 patch on the PTR.

The numbers speak for themselves.

My opinion, is that this is a relatively insubstantial increase, based on what existed before 7.35. I'm not trying to persuade you, this is simply my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

I fixed your post for you. No need to thank me. I highlighted it in bold to help clarify.

The issue with a lot of these debates is that the argument is against two different things. Pre 7.3.5 - when xp was broken and you could shake a stick at a boar and gain two levels. And post 7.3.5 - when xp was broken and it didn't matter how many dragons were stabbed with shiny swords you still wouldn't level.

People like pre 7.3.5 because it was broken in favourable way for us as the player, at least from a convenience point of view.
Post 7.3.5 I believe was actually closer to correct values, they just got it wrong and overtuned it forcing it to be broken in the opposite manner, or less efficient and convenient to the player. Hence why there is so much hate.

With making positive steps to fix the current problem while still maintaining the integrity of the system I think the new changes are good. They are substantial and will provide a huge quality of life benefit to a lot of players, whilst not flipping it back on its head and creating the same broken system we had before.
I say give it time and see how it plays out.

Either way, the system before where the best way to level was to roll tank or heals and ignore the actual MMORPG part of WoW and spam run the same dungeon over and over and over again was not a good one.

Edit: Just going to add an edit to concede that the slowing down of dungeons due to scaling with the increase to required xp to level was probably enough of a change without the reduced experience overall gained through dungeons.
11/08/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Haavi
First, not your son.

Second, no, I'm not arguing about anything, I posted data showing the XP cap differential between a patch prior to 7.35 (when things were broken) and the 8.1 patch on the PTR.

The numbers speak for themselves.

My opinion, is that this is a relatively insubstantial increase, based on what existed before 7.35. I'm not trying to persuade you, this is simply my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

I fixed your post for you. No need to thank me. I highlighted it in bold to help clarify.

The issue with a lot of these debates is that the argument is against two different things. Pre 7.3.5 - when xp was broken and you could shake a stick at a boar and gain two levels. And post 7.3.5 - when xp was broken and it didn't matter how many dragons were stabbed with shiny swords you still wouldn't level.

People like pre 7.3.5 because it was broken in favourable way for us as the player, at least from a convenience point of view.
Post 7.3.5 I believe was actually closer to correct values, they just got it wrong and overtuned it forcing it to be broken in the opposite manner, or less efficient and convenient to the player. Hence why there is so much hate.

With making positive steps to fix the current problem while still maintaining the integrity of the system I think the new changes are good. They are substantial and will provide a huge quality of life benefit to a lot of players, whilst not flipping it back on its head and creating the same broken system we had before.
I say give it time and see how it plays out.

Either way, the system before where the best way to level was to roll tank or heals and ignore the actual MMORPG part of WoW and spam run the same dungeon over and over and over again was not a good one.

Edit: Just going to add an edit to concede that the slowing down of dungeons due to scaling with the increase to required xp to level was probably enough of a change without the reduced experience overall gained through dungeons.

Things were fine before 7.35. They weren't broken.

There wasn't anything wrong with my post, you and I just disagree. Let's leave it at that.
Either way, (in my opinion) the system before where the best way to level was to roll tank or heals and ignore the actual MMORPG part of WoW and spam run the same dungeon over and over and over again was not a good one.
Fixed for ya. That was called player choice. Nobody was forced to run dungeons as a preferred way to level, it was the players choice. A choice a good portion of the playerbase liked to have. But was nerfed into oblivion, so these devs could shoehorn people into how they want people to play. Sure they never encouraged people leveling in dungeons, but they sure as hell never discouraged it over the last 11 years either until they couldn't figure out how else to slow people down lol. They obviously pissed a good portion of this playerbase off, if they are now starting to revert the xp change that happened with 7.3.5.
This thread started out simply being about max level characters running low level characters through dungeons to exploit power leveling.

Which is something that had been taken away years ago, during MoP, and then 7.3.5 allowed to happen again briefly until they hotfixed it.

Seems like none of these new posts have anything to do with that and are totally unrelated.
11/09/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Rimink
Either way, (in my opinion) the system before where the best way to level was to roll tank or heals and ignore the actual MMORPG part of WoW and spam run the same dungeon over and over and over again was not a good one.
Fixed for ya. That was called player choice. Nobody was forced to run dungeons as a preferred way to level, it was the players choice. A choice a good portion of the playerbase liked to have. But was nerfed into oblivion, so these devs could shoehorn people into how they want people to play. Sure they never encouraged people leveling in dungeons, but they sure as hell never discouraged it over the last 11 years either until they couldn't figure out how else to slow people down lol. They obviously pissed a good portion of this playerbase off, if they are now starting to revert the xp change that happened with 7.3.5.


Absolutely correct it was players choice and most that really enjoyed that aspect of the game have been long gone just as one of my accounts is closed and this one will be in March of 2019 by buying tokens just so I can post.

Funny isn't it; Multiboxing is ok with Blizzard because they make money off all the account subscriptions.

But they're not getting another dime from me unless they revert what this thread was all about to begin with "XP FROM DUNGEONS". Look at all the leveling guilds we used to have that higher levels would run lowers to get them geared for the attached raiding guilds.

Blizzard shot themselves in the foot when they thought they could change this and we would accept it and pay more for boosts and time metrics for their stockholders.

Heck my second guild was created so that I could run my toons on the other account through and level them.

Blizzard did this to themselves and I for one will not accept this; Revert "XP FROM DUNGEONS" or I'm gone.
11/09/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
This thread started out simply being about max level characters running low level characters through dungeons to exploit power leveling.

Which is something that had been taken away years ago, during MoP, and then 7.3.5 allowed to happen again briefly until they hotfixed it.

Seems like none of these new posts have anything to do with that and are totally unrelated.


Yes a lot of replies have gotten off track within this thread but most are related to it in one way or the other.
11/09/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
This thread started out simply being about max level characters running low level characters through dungeons to exploit power leveling.

Which is something that had been taken away years ago, during MoP, and then 7.3.5 allowed to happen again briefly until they hotfixed it.

Seems like none of these new posts have anything to do with that and are totally unrelated.
A exploit they allowed for 11 years you mean? That people were doing during and after mop also. Power leveled a troll hunter during wod through dungeons btw, and that was after mop, and before 7.3.5. But keep using that forum buzzword lol.
...
Again, this is because the best devs have been assigned to mobile.

They are sunsetting their PC products, that seems pretty clear.

First it was Starcraft
Then Diablo

I don't have to draw pictures, do I?


No pictures needed but less snarky attitude would be appreciated. I'm entitled to my options just like you.

Uhm no snark at all. Snark would have compelled me to draw pictures, thinking people wouldn't get it. But I assume everyone does get it. Sorry you interpreted it as snark, it really wasn't intended that way.
11/09/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
This thread started out simply being about max level characters running low level characters through dungeons to exploit power leveling.

Which is something that had been taken away years ago, during MoP, and then 7.3.5 allowed to happen again briefly until they hotfixed it.

Seems like none of these new posts have anything to do with that and are totally unrelated.

Perhaps you didn't play since MoP but until 7.35 I, my guild, spouse and friends all powered each other through dungeons. In fact, right before 7.35 dropped I was powering a lifelong friend through Panda dungeons.

Then, suddenly, Blizzard was shocked, shocked, I tell you, to discover that players were power leveling in dungeons ... for the last 13 years... what a stunner.
11/09/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Velara
11/09/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Partyunicorn
This thread started out simply being about max level characters running low level characters through dungeons to exploit power leveling.

Which is something that had been taken away years ago, during MoP, and then 7.3.5 allowed to happen again briefly until they hotfixed it.

Seems like none of these new posts have anything to do with that and are totally unrelated.

Perhaps you didn't play since MoP but until 7.35 I, my guild, spouse and friends all powered each other through dungeons. In fact, right before 7.35 dropped I was powering a lifelong friend through Panda dungeons.

Then, suddenly, Blizzard was shocked, shocked, I tell you, to discover that players were power leveling in dungeons ... for the last 13 years... what a stunner.


Yeah what a stunner; I too power leveled up until 7.3.5 had a raiding guild and a leveling guild with website, 50 man vent server the works. Blizzard screwed many people out of money thinking they were going to pad their pockets but screwed themselves with these changes imo.

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