Kill roll the bones, bring back combat.

Rogue
I like the pirate theme
I think the idea behind the pirate theme was a good one. It was fun, and cool, but they didn't take into accout that massive rng swings suck when you dps. So I think the mentality of throwing the whole thing out is wrong. What they need to do is make it fun again.

If it were me, I'd go with a baseline buff for the roll the dice effect as it pertains to dps, where you have to have it up at all times.

From there make it fun. Come up with six to twelve different "effects" that range from cosmetic to functional, examples being flaming swords (a look unique to the buff) or a minor movement buff.

You could get crazy with an effect that instantly teleports you to the side of what you're attacking, etc. I mean just keep it fun with an eye towards keeping the dps side impact under control.
Oh, I forgot to mention it in my other post but another poster also already said it: SND is better than RTB for T21. Outside of TB, JR, and BS, I don't really like any of the buffs; they feel extremely lackluster.
RtB is a stupid mechanic SnD should be baseline. its ridiculous i have to give up a talent row for an ability i've had for over 10 years.
RtB and SnD should swap, or they need to replace RtB outright with something else piratey and get the RNG out of my finishers. Let me throw rum on someone and light them on fire. That's pirate as !@#$. They should also baseline Cannonball Barrage and put a talent there people would think about taking.

Otherwise, pirate 4 lyfe. Get out of here with this bring combat back crap. You are desperately, desperately in love with your nostalgia, and you need to move on.
02/28/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hornswoggled
Otherwise, pirate 4 lyfe. Get out of here with this bring combat back crap. You are desperately, desperately in love with your nostalgia, and you need to move on.
It isn't nostalgia though, as simple as combat was even in WoD, it had more depth than any rogue spec currently has.
02/28/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Nexxynex
02/28/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Hornswoggled
Otherwise, pirate 4 lyfe. Get out of here with this bring combat back crap. You are desperately, desperately in love with your nostalgia, and you need to move on.
It isn't nostalgia though, as simple as combat was even in WoD, it had more depth than any rogue spec currently has.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Depth is one of those buzzwords that I think everyone smells their own farts over, and I'm not sure how I'm supposed to take. Deep like complicated? No no, that has negative connotations. Deep like...deep. So only good complicated. Like deep so when you finally memorize the guide someone else put together, you can feel good.
02/27/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Sylithros
02/27/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Sithïs
I like RtB, they just need to condense the buffs so the power swings are not wild.

Slice and Dice is trash, it's virtually Grand Melee buff, an autoattack speed buff and it's terribly bland.

Meanwhile stuff like broadsides proccing or jolley roger make you think how to spend cp's so as to not overcap and feel a lot more fun.

Merge all the buffs so that there are only 3 categories of buffs and you get 2 of the 3 category buffs whenever you roll the bones with a possible chance for 3 buffs.
Condense and merge how? Like roll Grand Melee + Sharkfin/Broadside + Jolly Roger/True Bearing + Buried Treasure into groups and when you RTB you pick 1 buff from 2 of the groups of 1 from each?

Or do you mean condense the buffs like Grand Melee & Jolly Roger, Broadside & Buried Treasure, and Shark Infested & True Bearing and them tune them appropriately, and then when you RTB you grab one of those new pairs?

Either way, as long as a static 1 buff is a thing the spec's going to have moments where it just feels bad. With Restless being buffed to 1s, True Bearings should be dropped and rolled into the passive. It's already swingy enough and I hate to imagine how much it'll affect the spec with Loaded Dice as a talent.


I mean condensing the effects. Jolly roger and braodsides could each be condensed with another buff of the opposite category, so your extra cp regen comes in two flavors depending on the buff, and merge grand melee with the energy regen, while merging shark infested waters into the other buff (true bearing).

I wouldn't be opposed to either version, really. The end goal anyways is to reduce the variance in power between the buff rolls, so you never fell like you're getting garbage buffs.

The difference should be at most 5-10%, with much more weight to the 5%. They could even implement bad luck protection to smooth out the output over time.

But I far prefer the unique buffs over the boring garbage that is slice and dice.

I don't want rogues returning to autoattack over-reliance again. It's garbage passive damage and the majority of damage by a huge marging should always come from active abilities, not autoattacks.
03/01/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Sithïs

But I far prefer the unique buffs over the boring garbage that is slice and dice.

I just got 4P T21 and SND is so good because my relics already have Fortune's Strike and Fortune Strikes traits. But it doesn't feel engaging or fun; I just feel like I'm slapping things with my swords. Which wouldn't be a problem [for me] if that's the theme Blizzard pushed, but they're doing Outlaw. Pirates, Duelists, Highwaymen, and Bandits are what come to mind when I think of that.

The 1/2/6 buffs should be removed and instead streamlined into 2 options: Jolly Rogers and Broadside. When you roll, you get one or the other and a 2 mix of Grand Melee, Buried Treasure, and Shark, tuned appropriately.

So you'd RTB and get Broadside with the increase damage to combo generators and +1 to their combo points, while getting some combination of 50% AS + Leech/30% Energy Regen/25% Crit, giving 3 buffs total. I only feel some sort of fun with the class when i get Broadside, Jolly Rogers, or True Bearings, and TB is such a power swing that I'd rather they just remove it and bake part of it into the spec baseline.

The rest of the buffs are so lackluster that I just want to reroll half the time when I get them. Streamline it to 2 major buffs, with the "RNG" coming from which of the 3 supplementary buffs you'll get. Hell, it could even be JR/BS with the option of 1-3 and it wouldn't matter; as long as TB is baked in so the spec doesn't feel punishing when you go without it is what really matters.
02/21/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Jimmywibble
Slice and Dice still exists and is perfectly viable. In fact, 90% of the top Outlaw parses for every boss are running SnD, so it's more than just viable.

You realize what you are indirectly saying is that 90% of the parsed Outlaw players want nothing to do with RtB. The fact T21 helps gain the benefit of RtB while using SnD also has something to do with the parses.
03/02/2018 03:09 PMPosted by Emrill
02/21/2018 08:37 PMPosted by Jimmywibble
Slice and Dice still exists and is perfectly viable. In fact, 90% of the top Outlaw parses for every boss are running SnD, so it's more than just viable.

You realize what you are indirectly saying is that 90% of the parsed Outlaw players want nothing to do with RtB. The fact T21 helps gain the benefit of RtB while using SnD also has something to do with the parses.


That isn't what is doing it tho. It's the sync SnD has with the Pantheon trinkets. Pantheon trinket for me in most fights is near 20% of my damage.
03/02/2018 05:06 PMPosted by Dún
That isn't what is doing it tho. It's the sync SnD has with the Pantheon trinkets. Pantheon trinket for me in most fights is near 20% of my damage.

Are you saying you wouldn’t use SnD with the current tier set if you lacked the trinket? If you lacked the tier set but had the trinket would you use SnD? How about if you lacked both?
03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
Are you saying you wouldn’t use SnD with the current tier set if you lacked the trinket?

If I didn't have the trinket I would most certainly still be using RtB becasue it is much better without the trinket at base.

03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
If you lacked the tier set but had the trinket would you use SnD?

In this case I'd be using SnD beause the tier set, while helpful, isn't what is causing a major impact.

03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
How about if you lacked both?

If I did not have both, once again I'd be using RtB because again it's stronger at base.
02/28/2018 06:51 PMPosted by Nexxynex
RtB is a stupid mechanic SnD should be baseline. its ridiculous i have to give up a talent row for an ability i've had for over 10 years.


I agree.

It takes away talent choices for players that want a consistent source of damage.

03/02/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Sylithros
03/01/2018 12:13 AMPosted by Sithïs

But I far prefer the unique buffs over the boring garbage that is slice and dice.

I just got 4P T21 and SND is so good because my relics already have Fortune's Strike and Fortune Strikes traits. But it doesn't feel engaging or fun; I just feel like I'm slapping things with my swords. Which wouldn't be a problem [for me] if that's the theme Blizzard pushed, but they're doing Outlaw. Pirates, Duelists, Highwaymen, and Bandits are what come to mind when I think of that.

The 1/2/6 buffs should be removed and instead streamlined into 2 options: Jolly Rogers and Broadside. When you roll, you get one or the other and a 2 mix of Grand Melee, Buried Treasure, and Shark, tuned appropriately.

So you'd RTB and get Broadside with the increase damage to combo generators and +1 to their combo points, while getting some combination of 50% AS + Leech/30% Energy Regen/25% Crit, giving 3 buffs total. I only feel some sort of fun with the class when i get Broadside, Jolly Rogers, or True Bearings, and TB is such a power swing that I'd rather they just remove it and bake part of it into the spec baseline.

The rest of the buffs are so lackluster that I just want to reroll half the time when I get them. Streamline it to 2 major buffs, with the "RNG" coming from which of the 3 supplementary buffs you'll get. Hell, it could even be JR/BS with the option of 1-3 and it wouldn't matter; as long as TB is baked in so the spec doesn't feel punishing when you go without it is what really matters.


Agreed.

Remember when Buried Treasure was stronger and was like a mini Adrenaline Rush? Remember when Shark Infested Waters actually felt fun to have up? Or how about the three buff or six buff rolls?

If Blizz is going to neuter RTB then they need to improve the other buffs again or do exactly what you have suggested.
03/03/2018 03:01 AMPosted by Dún
03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
Are you saying you wouldn’t use SnD with the current tier set if you lacked the trinket?

If I didn't have the trinket I would most certainly still be using RtB becasue it is much better without the trinket at base.

03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
If you lacked the tier set but had the trinket would you use SnD?

In this case I'd be using SnD beause the tier set, while helpful, isn't what is causing a major impact.

03/02/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Emrill
How about if you lacked both?

If I did not have both, once again I'd be using RtB because again it's stronger at base.

Thank you for your feedback. I don't play my rogue at the level you do this expansion so it's much appreciated. I still think SnD would be the more stable route for the future, but like the feedback none the less.
RtB is a shortcut. If they wanted Outlaw to shine they should add different finishers and attach specific buffs to them. Want Jolly Roger? Run Through. Want Grand Melee? Eviscerate ect. Juggling finishers to keep up buffs at least is more interesting than "I need Grand Melee to survive the mage tower. Let me never roll it in 10 straight attempts and die"
02/25/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Voidbutt
02/23/2018 05:56 AMPosted by Beverde
...

and Voidbutt

Ain't that hard to roll the bones and it's the core reason why I played outlaw because all rolls will be most likely to be different which will change up the dynamic combat flow unlike boring static speed increase buff.

What people don't realize is that RtB is actually well tuned at the moment with exceptional of TB still being a strong buff.


No hate Void, it's just a joke when someone says get rid of RtB you're gonna jump on there.

I'm okay with it, only that it focuses on a gun playstyle which I don't like. Thematic issue more than a balance one.
03/03/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Beverde
02/25/2018 11:53 AMPosted by Voidbutt
...
Ain't that hard to roll the bones and it's the core reason why I played outlaw because all rolls will be most likely to be different which will change up the dynamic combat flow unlike boring static speed increase buff.

What people don't realize is that RtB is actually well tuned at the moment with exceptional of TB still being a strong buff.


No hate Void, it's just a joke when someone says get rid of RtB you're gonna jump on there.

I'm okay with it, only that it focuses on a gun playstyle which I don't like. Thematic issue more than a balance one.

Outside of greenskins, there's almost no reason to be using BtE and you only would use PS if its free proc without capping on energy or BB, so that point seems to be bit of silly.

I'm a die hard for RtB however I swapped to sin at this point because playing RtB on mythic Inomar or Kin seems to be really clunky and would be difficult to maintain two buff.
03/03/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Voidbutt
03/03/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Beverde
...

No hate Void, it's just a joke when someone says get rid of RtB you're gonna jump on there.

I'm okay with it, only that it focuses on a gun playstyle which I don't like. Thematic issue more than a balance one.

Outside of greenskins, there's almost no reason to be using BtE and you only would use PS if its free proc without capping on energy or BB, so that point seems to be bit of silly.

I'm a die hard for RtB however I swapped to sin at this point because playing RtB on mythic Inomar or Kin seems to be really clunky and would be difficult to maintain two buff.


Immonar's a !@#$% but I did our first kill with RTB. I tried SND the other night and it was a lot better.

I'm split on Kin, SnD can do great if you get a trinket proc on the adds but otherwise seems kinda meh.
Outlaw is better . Pistols are amazing.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum