Why are Kultiras able to be druids?

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03/18/2018 10:36 AMPosted by Saurfang

You can write coherent fantasy. Incoherent fantasy receives nothing but ridicule, much like WoW lore with it's constant retconning of material.


Yeah, but each studio has different priorities.

Blizzard's priority is gameplay and related design considerations. They also maintain a very high standard of artistic and visual design, presumably because there is no conflict between gameplay and art design: they support one another, and exist in harmony.

Character, story and lore are lower priorities, and they get adjusted to support the higher priorities.

Blizzard does care about those other things, and they do matter, but they tend to serve gameplay, rather than gameplay serving the story.

Is this bad or good? Well, they have had a lot of success with that formula. I enjoy Blizzard's games.

I also enjoy games created by other studios that have different priorities.
03/17/2018 07:55 PMPosted by Roytheaddict
Why is everyone so quick to judge the Kul Tirans for being able to be druids. There are many different types of druids who worship different idols. Is it really that hard to believe? I think not. Just wait to ACTUALLY play the content that explains it. Looking at you Kynaria.


But then the HM Druid who joined the warmongering faction won't have an excuse to complain and come up with bad suggestions like Nelf Worgen or WH Dwarves for Druids!
03/18/2018 08:19 AMPosted by Gorronor
Almost positive I saw somewhere that some flavor text talks about a White Stag in Kul Tiran legend appearing in the forests.

Well, if Malorne wants to go to a new continent and teach some humans druidism, *I'm* sure not going to tell him he can't.

Technically most of the stuff about Kul Tiras having its own culture is going to be retcons because in WC2 they were just a generic human nation that liked ships more than average, but by Warcraft standards that's not exactly the biggest retcon ever.
Something that I think people forget about druids is that they have the Emerald Dream where time is nearly stopped and where druid newbies are trained.

So lore wise you can take any would be druid, human, dwarf, or whatever, and teach them druid magic for hundreds of years in the Emerald dream until they master it and then come back out with almost no time having passed in the real world.

This is something unique to druids and why I don't think it's so far fetched to explain why someone who's not a night elf is capable of being a strong druid despite their race only recently being introduced to that school of magic.

Druids have their own Hyperbolic Time Chamber like the one from DBZ.
03/18/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
How are some of us humans 8 feet tall? How are some of us really skinny and others the complete opposite? Are we cross breeds, too?

Your comments don't hold much logic.


This isn't the real world. This is WoW where every single human is exactly the same height. Where there are actually other races that humans can create crossbreeds with. A place steeped in magic where abnormalities like at least a third of a races population being massively different than the rest means that something other than, well they're just tall is the reason for that discrepancy.

Now here we have a race, the Drust that is likely an offshoot of the race that humans descended from so we know that they can breed with humans. They are very tall and burly and look for all intents and purposes like really big humans.

Next we have a nation of humans that were in contact with the Drust for an extended period of time, the only nation we are aware of that has had any contact with the Drust or even the Vrykul for thousands of years and somehow this nation of humans are the only ones in the entirety of Azeroth to have a portion of their population grow to be unusually tall and burly.

I don't know about you, but I know a 2+2=4 equation when I see one.
03/18/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
How are some of us humans 8 feet tall? How are some of us really skinny and others the complete opposite? Are we cross breeds, too?

Your comments don't hold much logic.


This isn't the real world. This is WoW where every single human is exactly the same height. Where there are actually other races that humans can create crossbreeds with. A place seeped in magic where abnormalities like at least a third of a races population being massively different than the rest means that something other than, well they're just tall is the reason for that discrepancy.

Now here we have a race, the Drust that is likely an offshoot of the race that humans descended from so we know that they can breed with humans. They are very tall and burly and look for all intents and purposes like really big humans.

Next we have a nation of humans that were in contact with the Drust for an extended period of time, the only nation we are aware of that has had any contact with the Drust or even the Vrykul for thousands of years and somehow this nation of humans are the only ones in the entirety of Azeroth to have a portion of their population grow to be unusually tall and burly.

I don't know about you, but I know a 2+2=4 equation when I see one.
Not all trolls are the same height. They didn't cross breed.

Gameplay mechanics aren't lore. For this game's original coding, there were no height differences. But ask any roleplayer and you'll find no lore reason their character can't be shorter or taller.

You're grasping at a theory that can be countered with logic.
03/17/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Cirno
The whole wicker thing seems a clue to the drust involvement.


Based on what I read, those Drust might have spirits living in the wilds. The fact it also mentions it as "death magic" reminds me a lot of Night Elf Wips.

Kul Tiran druids might be closer to true Druidism than any of these Horde races of pretenders.
03/18/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Osiria
03/17/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Cirno
The whole wicker thing seems a clue to the drust involvement.


Based on what I read, those Drust might have spirits living in the wilds. The fact it also mentions it as "death magic" reminds me a lot of Night Elf Wips.

Kul Tiran druids might be closer to true Druidism than any of these Horde races of pretenders.
What Horde race of pretenders? Trolls worship Loa, which are Wild Gods. Tauren were taught by Cenarius, just like Night Elves.
03/18/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Redhound
03/18/2018 06:12 AMPosted by Tiridan
and from there she learned from Cenarius.


No she learned it from the other Loa who Gonk forced to teach her because they didn't want to. Trolls Druids had no connection to Cenarius at all before they showed up in Moonglade and asked to join the Circle.
Gonk never forced the Loa to teach her, and If they did, please link it. She learned in the Emerald Dream, and even if she didn't learn it from Cenarius, it doesn't change anything. Loa are Wild Gods, and that alone is enough to justify Druidism. Have you ever seen the Druids of the Talon in Highmountain? Taught by Aviana?

I'll also leave this here for people to look at: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Ancient_Guardian
03/18/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
What Horde race of pretenders? Trolls worship Loa, which are Wild Gods. Tauren were taught by Cenarius, just like Night Elves.


Yea, then they join the Horde and help destroy everything they claim to care about.
03/18/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
You're grasping at a theory that can be countered with logic.


And you are trying to use real world logic (and not very good logic at that) to refute something in a game where real world logic does not belong because you don't like it.

We aren't talking about the normal variances in height in any given population here. We are talking about a sizable percentage of a population being literal giants compared to the rest of said population. Yes, not all Trolls are the same height. But with the exception of Dire Trolls which are created with magic there is no tribe out there that has a third of its population abnormally taller or shorter than the rest. And there is no human population in game or in the real world like that either.

If you were to come across a population of people in the real world where 2/3s are within the average height variances that is normal within that region but that last 1/3 is substantially taller, to the point of reaching gigantism would you think, 'oh hey that's normal, they're just tall.' No. Logic dictates that there are extenuating circumstances that are at play making that 1/3 taller. In the real world we would look at environmental factors or maybe genetic mutation, because there isn't a nice convenient other race that once shared the space that already exhibits those traits that interbreeding with would easily explain the unnatural discrepancy in size.

And just for the record, humans did interbreed. Ancient Eurasians interbred with Neanderthals and just recently it has been discovered that east asians and the oceanic peoples interbred with a group of pre human hominids that are being called Denisovans. Two groups of people who look markedly different from one another.
03/18/2018 05:07 AMPosted by Keebrew
03/17/2018 07:55 PMPosted by Roytheaddict
Why is everyone so quick to judge the Kul Tirans for being able to be druids. There are many different types of druids who worship different idols. Is it really that hard to believe? I think not. Just wait to ACTUALLY play the content that explains it. Looking at you Kynaria.


They're quick to judge because back in the day, you had to be a follower of Cenarius to be allowed to use druid forms.

Now you just need some nature-related teaching (loa) and you to can shapeshift...
this is incredibly idiotic since it goes against the original druid lore. They haven't even gone into detail as to why Loa are able to grant the druid forms....They just said they and then they did.

And so now, a race with no connection to cenarius somehow pulls off druid-level shapeshifting? I'm all for an explanation, but if they don't offer one, then don't blame people for getting mad.


Umm they never went into detail about why Cenarius would be the sole decider of who got to be a druid and who didn't. They just said it and it happened. OOh wait... I don't recall them EVER saying that Cenarius was the only way and that there would never ever be another way.
03/18/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Redhound
03/18/2018 11:20 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
You're grasping at a theory that can be countered with logic.


And you are trying to use real world logic (and not very good logic at that) to refute something in a game where real world logic does not belong because you don't like it.

We aren't talking about the normal variances in height in any given population here. We are talking about a sizable percentage of a population being literal giants compared to the rest of said population. Yes, not all Trolls are the same height. But with the exception of Dire Trolls which are created with magic there is no tribe out there that has a third of its population abnormally taller or shorter than the rest. And there is no human population in game or in the real world like that either.

If you were to come across a population of people in the real world where 2/3s are within the average height variances that is normal within that region but that last 1/3 is substantially taller, to the point of reaching gigantism would you think, 'oh hey that's normal, they're just tall.' No. Logic dictates that there are extenuating circumstances that are at play making that 1/3 taller. In the real world we would look at environmental factors or maybe genetic mutation, because there isn't a nice convenient other race that once shared the space that already exhibits those traits that interbreeding with would easily explain the unnatural discrepancy in size.

And just for the record, humans did interbreed. Ancient Eurasians interbred with Neanderthals and just recently it has been discovered that east asians and the oceanic peoples interbred with a group of pre human hominids that are being called Denisovans. Two groups of people who look markedly different from one another.
I'm not using all real world logic. I gave you in game logic.

Gameplay mechanics aren't lore.

And there's no factual information given to us that someone bred with a Drust to make different body types for Tirasians. This could simply be Blizz's way of adding in body type options that work with the game engine and nothing more than that.
03/18/2018 07:23 AMPosted by Redhound
03/18/2018 06:12 AMPosted by Tiridan
and from there she learned from Cenarius.


No she learned it from the other Loa who Gonk forced to teach her because they didn't want to. Trolls Druids had no connection to Cenarius at all before they showed up in Moonglade and asked to join the Circle.


And then everyone found out that Cenarius wasn't important enough to the universe to be granted the ability to gate keep all of the druids. He's just not that awesome.

Cenarius isn't the only druid god in Azeroth.
03/18/2018 11:30 AMPosted by Tiridan
Gonk never forced the Loa to teach her, and If they did, please link it.


It's from the flavor text you can get from Zen'tabra on the echo isles

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Zen%27tabra

How did the other loa react to this?

<Zen'tabra laughs.>
De other loa, 'specially Shirvallah, did not much care for dis plan. Dey still be wantin' us ta work just for one o' dem at a time, not wit all de spirits at once. But Gonk had forced dere hands, and de knew it was de only way ta save de isles while Zalazane still rules.
I be tinkin' dat Gonk did not care for de other loa much either. He be teasin' de other loa all de time while we be learnin' from dem.
03/18/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
I'm not using all real world logic. I gave you in game logic.

No you really didn't. You kept asking if real humans had interbred to create size differences as an explanation to why in game humans didn't either.

03/18/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
Gameplay mechanics aren't lore.


No but reasons for them are often backed up by lore.

03/18/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
And there's no factual information given to us that someone bred with a Drust to make different body types for Tirasians. This could simply be Blizz's way of adding in body type options that work with the game engine and nothing more than that.


You are correct, Blizz has not told us any concrete reason why some Kul Tirans are so much larger. Which is why I said in my original post that I was speculating. I even bolded it. I looked at the fact that there are giant Kul Tirans who will most likely be able to be druids. I also saw the fact that Kul Tirans were in extended contact with a group of Druidic giant proto humans and I made a logical conclusion that has not been confirmed or denied by Blizzard.
03/18/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Kaiyeri
03/18/2018 11:51 AMPosted by Redhound
...

And you are trying to use real world logic (and not very good logic at that) to refute something in a game where real world logic does not belong because you don't like it.

We aren't talking about the normal variances in height in any given population here. We are talking about a sizable percentage of a population being literal giants compared to the rest of said population. Yes, not all Trolls are the same height. But with the exception of Dire Trolls which are created with magic there is no tribe out there that has a third of its population abnormally taller or shorter than the rest. And there is no human population in game or in the real world like that either.

If you were to come across a population of people in the real world where 2/3s are within the average height variances that is normal within that region but that last 1/3 is substantially taller, to the point of reaching gigantism would you think, 'oh hey that's normal, they're just tall.' No. Logic dictates that there are extenuating circumstances that are at play making that 1/3 taller. In the real world we would look at environmental factors or maybe genetic mutation, because there isn't a nice convenient other race that once shared the space that already exhibits those traits that interbreeding with would easily explain the unnatural discrepancy in size.

And just for the record, humans did interbreed. Ancient Eurasians interbred with Neanderthals and just recently it has been discovered that east asians and the oceanic peoples interbred with a group of pre human hominids that are being called Denisovans. Two groups of people who look markedly different from one another.
I'm not using all real world logic. I gave you in game logic.

Gameplay mechanics aren't lore.

And there's no factual information given to us that someone bred with a Drust to make different body types for Tirasians. This could simply be Blizz's way of adding in body type options that work with the game engine and nothing more than that.


I think the theory has merit. If you have seen the kul’tiran male next to a regular human, you’d see that saying they are bigger is an understatement. They are HUGE. Alpha is alpha, but they are several feet taller, and their hands are roughly the size of a regular humans torso. Cross breeding is not a new concept in wow, it’s very common in lore.

The theory is just a theory. You can’t prove or deny it yet, the content isn’t released.
They literally ate Nelf and Tauren Druids until they absorbed their Druey powers

Wait a minute. He kinda looks like a Druid. Come here! I'm gonna eat you! I'm bigger than you. I'm higher on the food chain. Get in my belly!
If you're looking at lore so much, then look closer. They don't have to be identical to function the same. Take Tauren Paladins. Their power does not come from the Holy Light, but rather the Sun. With that power they can do the same kinds of things as Human/Dwarf Paladins who get their power from faith in the Light and Blood Elves who first got their power by siphoning it from M'uru and then from the Sunwell.

Zanadalari Trolls are druids from their use of Dinomancy. The same thing can apply to Kul'tiran Druids.

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