Where WoW's writing went wrong?

General Discussion
It's the game for me.

After all, how many times our enemies want to feast on our bones?

Even I have a beef with them.
04/20/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Elgot
04/20/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Wryndox
It's because they retcon everything left and right. They don't even hesitate to do it either if they think it suits the gameplay. Story, lore and gameplay can coexist harmoniously but Blizzard doesn't seem to think so. Bethesda has kind of went that same route too with the TES series sadly.


Not to crap on Draenei but I remember when Warcraft was a fantasy game, and time traveling spacemen from Draenor did not exist.
We literally went to another world to fight alien creatures in WC3....orcs, a staple of WoW are literally aliens.
04/20/2018 04:19 PMPosted by Gorgal
Oh please. There is no complex "politics" In play in characters suddenly becoming warmongering psychopaths every second expansion. Yeah, the faction conflict is not at all contrived writing at this point.


Yea, keep trying to oversimplify the whole thing.

Seem you were victim of all the sugarcoating and brainwashing from the old narrative which states that, for some reason, fighting the Alliance or the Horde is just bad and evil but for some strange reason, all the other non-Horde and non-Alliance factions are allowed to be butchered, attacked, destroyed, etc without a second thought.

Do you think this is any different from fighting Defias, demons, Quillboars, some business company of goblins doing a load of dmg to your lands or something? It's not.

You talked about personality, motivations. What about what defines races?

Did you miss the part where Orcs are perfectly fine with any war? It's their thing and there's even plenty of them who won't even care about the whole "fair, honorable fight" thing, which in itself wouldn't make them behave any better.

Did you miss how the Forsaken have a deep bitterness towards the Alliance and will take any opportunity to kill them?

Again, you seem to think that, if characters aren't behaving the exact way you want (in this case, according to some moral sense close to real life), then the writing is bad.
For me it was WoD. I think things had been going south after WotLK but WoD was a train wreck. The whole AU thing just was just cheap, dirty and completely devoid of anything with integrity.
04/20/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Gorgal
Anyone else feel this way? It all seems so forced to me. No sense of continuity or organic character development.


Agreed.

I'd say when Blizzard started with major retcons in the story was when they basically fell apart with story telling. ie TBC.

Basically I doubt they ever did a Character map for their characters, and if they did they don't use it.

Sylvanas back in 'Classic' was mustache twirling evil, and only played nice with the Horde for the back up. The rest of the Horde was not Evil, a bit chaotic, a bit aggressive, but not evil, hell Tauren were outright good-guys in the Horde back then.

Come TBC all this started to change. The Blood Elves Joined the Horde at their most evil point in their History. They worshiped a guy who sold his soul to the legion, they kidnapped a Naaru to drain it's life essence, they drank in the Fel to relieve the Arcane addiction.

Basically, in TBC the Horde went from having one evil faction, one good faction and two neutral aggressive factions, to two evil one good and two neutral.

During Cataclysm Goblins where added, we are most certainly chaotic evil, and Garrosh was Balancing between Lawful Neutral and Chaotic evil. Which lead to the events in MOP that led to a civil war in the Horde.

Many Hoped that Voljin would bring the Horde back around to rugged aggressive but neutral, but he didn't last more than two cut scenes.

Sylvanas seems dedicated to the Horde, but not to Honor, or many of the qualities and virtues of the Horde.

IC I'm all for profit, OOC this saddens me, I liked the Troll.

--using D&D terms for Good, Evil, and Neutral.
I think it was Dragon Soul. Everything after Firelands, outside a few exceptions, has been fanfiction material.
04/20/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Elgot
04/20/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Wryndox
It's because they retcon everything left and right. They don't even hesitate to do it either if they think it suits the gameplay. Story, lore and gameplay can coexist harmoniously but Blizzard doesn't seem to think so. Bethesda has kind of went that same route too with the TES series sadly.


Not to crap on Draenei but I remember when Warcraft was a fantasy game, and time traveling spacemen from Draenor did not exist.
Honestly I like the Draenei but them being aliens from space kinda was too much to grasp I'm sure they could have been done better with their origins.
Ya blizzard lost me when they brought back Illidan but i got annoyed when he killed the prim Naru infront of an army of Draenei and a powerful paladin and yet and no one did anything to stop him and he got off scott free because he didn't want to get rid of his emo powers.
04/20/2018 11:05 PMPosted by Claxia
because he didn't want to get rid of his emo powers.


He didn't want to give up his freewill. He Killed the Xe'ra because she did something very unethical to him, and he protected himself from it.

That was possibly the single greatest moment in Warcraft ever.
The only good lore was war 2 when the orcs were blood thirsty stupid warmongers and the alliance were noble trying to defend themselves.

Now bliizz trying to make everything grey area .
04/20/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Primalmatter
Blizzard isn't really that good at telling stories... they have a vast universe but its rather shallow.

I think WoW's biggest problem is the power creep in the story. When you murder a god it is kind of hard to come back from that and fight pirates.


Didn't you know? hunting quillboar and milking goats is one of the greatest importances in WoW. All that aside, the characters feel less like themselves and more like just pieces to force a plot point along. Less to do with Reason and Logic of the individual character, more just.. kinda forcing them there to push an agenda/theme.

One of the only ones that actually think, or seems to think, is Anduin. He sees he lacks experience, is sheltered, and is trying to learn the ways now that he's forced into it all. He's going to get overwhelmed while he tries to step in his fathers shoes.
When Garrosh was turning to be all right Brutal warcheif, but then the fans wine and cry and want "Where is green jesus?!?" and they trun what was learning warcheif that have issue trusting and learning to well tyrant that not help with him wanting the sha, but not giving him redeeming arch at end of WoD

I mean if this how BFA is why the Hell we kill off Garrosh if sylvanas windrunner get free pass on own killing of own soldiers and Raising the dead both Alliance and horde?!?!
Troll Druids. Before Cataclysm Trolls had zero connection to druidism, so them getting Druids made zero sense. To this day I cringe whenever I see one.
04/20/2018 05:02 PMPosted by Elgot
04/20/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Wryndox
It's because they retcon everything left and right. They don't even hesitate to do it either if they think it suits the gameplay. Story, lore and gameplay can coexist harmoniously but Blizzard doesn't seem to think so. Bethesda has kind of went that same route too with the TES series sadly.


Not to crap on Draenei but I remember when Warcraft was a fantasy game, and time traveling spacemen from Draenor did not exist.


Yeah. Magic-tech dimension-hopping flying Cities?! In my fantasy!? Where does that even come from?

I mean, it's not like Michael Moorcock (a huge influence of modern fantasy and the father of the entire Law vs. Chaos dynamic that Warhammer shamelessly ripped off) wrote The Queen of the Swords all the way back in 1971.
04/20/2018 03:52 PMPosted by Gorgal
Lately I've been feeling a lot less invested in WoW's story. When a character does something I disagree with I don't feel like "That Sylvanas is doing X thing again!"
I feel more like "Blizzard is writing Sylvanas to do X thing again!". For a while now I think characters in WoW have stopped behaving like they're aware of their own world or motivations, and will completely change their personalities on a whim to drive a plot forward. It all feels very contrived, and makes it difficult to have any emotional investment in the story. Anyone else feel this way? It all seems so forced to me. No sense of continuity or organic character development.

Glad I am not the only one feeling the same thing. I think the last boss of BFA should be Golden for writing this drivel.
04/21/2018 01:15 AMPosted by Ravianna
Troll Druids. Before Cataclysm Trolls had zero connection to druidism, so them getting Druids made zero sense. To this day I cringe whenever I see one.
Much Like Blood elf sunddly become warrior, I thought they only play classes that have some sort of mana, But that change some how "Focus not mana" with how Hunter go and I Sure some thing sunwell fix it But I find it jarring to see Blood elf really bash head with out a spell some kind to go with it.

But then again I just a stupid orc.
04/21/2018 01:15 AMPosted by Ravianna
Troll Druids. Before Cataclysm Trolls had zero connection to druidism, so them getting Druids made zero sense. To this day I cringe whenever I see one.

Yeah. It's a good thing that there weren't two Troll raids where the bosses were transformed into animalistic avatars.

Wait...
Blizzard have made many, many mistakes.

But going against the idea that "Fantasy = repainted Tolkien and only repainted Tolkien!" was not one of them.

Warcraft would be poorer with just Tolkien. Just like we've got Lovecraft to thank for the tentacle monsters from space, we've got Michael Moorcock to thank for the magical dimension-hopping castles, Lords of Chaos, and talking, evil, soul-eating swords wielded by moody albinos.
Where WoW's writing went wrong?


Cataclysm.

Pretty much everything from cataclysm on has had varying degrees of bad in it. Not all bad, but bad parts. 'Green jesus thrall', murder of cairne via todays shaman's sidekick, bipolar garrosh, kid and chinese friendly pandaren, draenor, vol'shanked after one expansion of being a nondescript warchief, 'Purple jesus illidan' and XE'RA the mind molesting godmoder. Just as some brief examples.
04/21/2018 01:56 AMPosted by Urdine
Where WoW's writing went wrong?


Cataclysm.

Pretty much everything from cataclysm on has had varying degrees of bad in it. Not all bad, but bad parts. 'Green jesus thrall', murder of cairne via todays shaman's sidekick, bipolar garrosh, kid and chinese friendly pandaren, draenor, vol'shanked after one expansion of being a nondescript warchief, 'Purple jesus illidan' and XE'RA the mind molesting godmoder. Just as some brief examples.
Yep.... And that weak: Vashj'ir story telling was horrible at the end hell at the end of the story there no quest to tell you go back just ends just bloody end with no happy ending or any kinda ending that some how the Tide hunter come back in legion and refuse to tell us what happen with him and Ozumat!

Hell we was gonna get a Water theme raid but nope that sunk hard

much like how deathwing death felt hallow and why the "redub" of him in legion sound like knock off.

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