Holy Priest feedback

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Prev 1 9 10 11 26 Next
06/03/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Twyll
06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.


Thank you for this change. Can we please have some of your thoughts on halo and star? We are stcuk with a cookie cutter choice of benediction right now. Would be nice to have some more variety.

Fade could also act as a damage modifier like in PvP per people's comments above on M+. Just a suggestion.


you're gonna get disc'd and just get benediction nerfed.
06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.


Has there been any thought to adjusting Apotheosis in light of the Global Cooldown? 3 seconds (GCD+Cast+Instant) is a long time before you see any benefit from a healing cooldown, especially now that the duration is reduced (harder to use preventatively) and we'll be using it more often.
06/03/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Holymonky
06/03/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Twyll
Thank you for this change. Can we please have some of your thoughts on halo and star? We are stcuk with a cookie cutter choice of benediction right now. Would be nice to have some more variety.


I see so many people saying this, has any of them actually tested it or done the math for it?

Because without Piety, a couple of artifact traits, the nerf to benediction (30% from 40%) and the buffs to Divine star and Halo I wouldn't be surprised if things are already different..

With simple math we can see that Benediction (with perfect play) accounts for an average of 7.5 renews per minute, assuming also that it doesn't overwrite an existing one. Halo on the other hand does about the same healing per target as a full duration renew so in theory hitting 4 persons every 30sec with Halo would be more healing than the 7.5 renews a minute, ofc Benediction is free healing and Halo has a cast time and all but in a large group Halo can probably do a lot more healing. Oh also Halo and Divine star trigger mastery and renew hot doesn't.

And a similar analysis can be done with Divine Star (I just posted the halo one because is easier).


Nah, Halo and DS are still gonna be never used. You aren't factoring in that Halo does damage in a huge radius. It pulls unwanted mobs to often to be reliable. Also Halo has a 40 sec CD not 30 so your math is off there. For DS you have to run up and position yourself correctly, taking you away from just doing better things (like Binding heal). Benediction is just better, easier, free healing compared to both options. Finally you aren't factoring in Beneidiction's synergy with HW: Salvation which pushes it ever farther ahead of the other 2 options.
Yeah, the lack of synergy is always going to make Halo and DS just not have a place... which is why I recommended moving CoH to that tier, then you have 3 aoe healing spells, none of which synergize with our toolkit, but because we're forced to take one, we *will* use it.

I understand that they don't want every spell in our toolkit to maximize Holy Word usage, fine, whatever, but then don't force us into these "obvious" picks by setting up shoddy talent choices like this.
--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.
QUOTE


It still boggles my mind that you acknowledge that CD's were an issue, but it is the first thing you go to buffing instead of addressing the underlying issue with the ability...
06/03/2018 07:08 PMPosted by Bodytriangle
06/03/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Holymonky
...

I see so many people saying this, has any of them actually tested it or done the math for it?

Because without Piety, a couple of artifact traits, the nerf to benediction (30% from 40%) and the buffs to Divine star and Halo I wouldn't be surprised if things are already different..

With simple math we can see that Benediction (with perfect play) accounts for an average of 7.5 renews per minute, assuming also that it doesn't overwrite an existing one. Halo on the other hand does about the same healing per target as a full duration renew so in theory hitting 4 persons every 30sec with Halo would be more healing than the 7.5 renews a minute, ofc Benediction is free healing and Halo has a cast time and all but in a large group Halo can probably do a lot more healing. Oh also Halo and Divine star trigger mastery and renew hot doesn't.

And a similar analysis can be done with Divine Star (I just posted the halo one because is easier).


Nah, Halo and DS are still gonna be never used. You aren't factoring in that Halo does damage in a huge radius. It pulls unwanted mobs to often to be reliable. Also Halo has a 40 sec CD not 30 so your math is off there. For DS you have to run up and position yourself correctly, taking you away from just doing better things (like Binding heal). Benediction is just better, easier, free healing compared to both options. Finally you aren't factoring in Beneidiction's synergy with HW: Salvation which pushes it ever farther ahead of the other 2 options.


Ok my bad 40 sec you are correct on that, still is my math was just hitting 4 targets A LOT more potential healing if you can hit 10-20 targets in a raid with it, as for the large AOE radious ofc that's not a spell you'd use in a dungeon..

Synergy with Salvation yeah but salvation already applies renew anyway, sure benediction will make it so some of them are refreshed after, so about 8 more renews worth there ever 4 mins (on a 20 man group), that puts it at 38 renews every 4 minutes. Say you cast Halo 5 times in that window then you can have between 50 to 100 renews worth of healing (hitting between 10 to 20 ppl).

Agree benediction is easier no question there, and it may very well still be better, I'm just pointing out that things may have changed already and need to test things before just label them as useless.
Is it possible that Blizzard saw all of the feedback in this thread, and simply ignored almost all of it?
06/05/2018 08:58 AMPosted by Shortchanged
Is it possible that Blizzard saw all of the feedback in this thread, and simply ignored almost all of it?


Yes. It's almost guaranteed.

I know a lot of the times we feel like nobody is reading what we write, but 9/10, it's the opposite. It's being read, passed along, discussed, and then they decide to just ignore it. They just fail to tell us why. Just go check out the blue post on the Beast Mastery Feedback for a clear sign of it.

Also, as far as DS and Halo are concerned, you also have to factor in mana cost and the setup of fights. DS is only useful on stacked fights, where more Sanctify (I almost said Sanctuary, whoa, that's a blast from the past) will just automatically be better. And Halo is only good for moments of burst healing, and since that's what Salvation does to a T now, you'll want to take Benediction anyway. The likelihood that you'll need 2 burst healing cds is very unlikely.

Spread, consistent, tick healing... that's what we're good at... and then you have Salvation and the movement of LotN and that screws that up, so I dunno what we're supposed to be. Quintessential healer or whatever.
I get the impression Holy is "supposed" to be the versatile healer, being good at a little of everything but not the best at any of it. The thing is the reality of things always seems to go towards either AOE spam or Flash Heal spam. For example they tried to bring this into balance with T21 (buffing both Prayer of Healing and Flash Heal/Heal in a way that requires you to use both) and while it does work out that way if you take Piety, that tier had the side effect of making Binding Heal viable for certain content, so it kinda ended up supporting an AOE spam style anyway.

In a way it kind of feels like a failed class fantasy (assuming I've even interpreted the intention correctly) because for any given patch or talent build I either end up feeling like a poor man's druid or a poor man's paladin. That said, if we ignore class balancing I prefer Holy's gameplay over the gameplay of either which is ultimately why I main it.
We just need Light of the Naaru made baseline and the holy Word mechanic feels fine. Other than than like everyones said fix our defensive/mobility problem and make our several useless talents viable.
Or, and this is a totally radical idea, just have LotN just downright removed. We will get used to not having it if it no longer exists, but having it as a talent is just downright painful.
06/04/2018 12:01 PMPosted by Strawberrey
Yeah, the lack of synergy is always going to make Halo and DS just not have a place... which is why I recommended moving CoH to that tier, then you have 3 aoe healing spells, none of which synergize with our toolkit, but because we're forced to take one, we *will* use it.

I've always wondered why we can't bring back cascade? That felt fun and it does fill in a gap for spread-out/high-movement fights that would make picking it tempting even without serendipity synergy.
Since I'm new to beta and haven't had a chance to comment on all the previous discussion, I'd just like to share my thoughts so far:

1. Holy nova's damage being nerfed to such an extent is a huge loss to questing QoL. If this was felt necessary because of the weak heal being rolled back in like it was in WoD, dispense with the heal and roll that all into damage. Perhaps it can scale high in live, but as it is in beta at the moment it's almost a worthless spell that fails to kill anything in a reasonable amount of time and also fails to heal a reasonable amount.

2. The lack of a baseline mobility buff, as others hear have said, is a flawed design. If mages are the quintessential glass cannon DPS, holy priests are the quintessential glass cannon healers, and glass cannons need mobility options to avoid damage. Forcing the choice of feathers as a talent and then taunting the players with other completely impossible-to-take choices feels bad.

3. Focused will is nice enough, but I'd even take a nerf on that to have some solid active DR somewhere, anywhere. Being able to offer the tank a DR would be nice too. Having passive/lacking DRs and nothing to offer as an active ability to aid anyone else just, again, feels like our toolkit is missing basic functionality for tougher content.
I was talking to a resto shaman in my guild and doing some research from what top guilds like Method have been saying. The thought right now is resto shaman and holy pally are KILLING IT. Resto shaman just got another buff and they get their chain healed buffed through azerite gear. They get a passive Defensive, plus ank, PLUS a defensive where they can take 40% reduced dmg....

I laughed and said, "oh yeah? well i get to stand in the back, pop my wings, glow and wave at everyone while I'm in angel form."

My guild's name is Tilted Halos. I guess I am 100% the guild mascot now!

Who wins?
Kind of off topic but kind of on topic. Since Disc is also kind of getting the short end of the stick. Maybe it's time to delete a healing spec for priest... combine disc and holy and just give priest a healing spec and a shadow spec.... we could be the next DemonHunter build...
Can someone point me to the apotheosis discussion thread, I don't seem to be able to find it.
HOW MANY MORE !@#$%^- PASSIVES WILL BLIZZ FORCE US TO TAKE IN OUR TALENT TREE. JESUS CHRIST.
06/06/2018 11:26 AMPosted by Strawberrey
Or, and this is a totally radical idea, just have LotN just downright removed. We will get used to not having it if it no longer exists, but having it as a talent is just downright painful.


Just no. If its removed we need some king of compensation, as its previously been taken 100% of the time.
06/07/2018 09:01 AMPosted by Delgoth
HOW MANY MORE !@#$%^- PASSIVES WILL BLIZZ FORCE US TO TAKE IN OUR TALENT TREE. JESUS CHRIST.


Lots of passives and the actives aren't worth taking .. Halo, Divine Star, and Circle of Healing.
06/07/2018 04:10 AMPosted by Celeenia
Kind of off topic but kind of on topic. Since Disc is also kind of getting the short end of the stick. Maybe it's time to delete a healing spec for priest... combine disc and holy and just give priest a healing spec and a shadow spec.... we could be the next DemonHunter build...


I've actually thought this idea would be great for a long time. I feel like the class has had too much split between disc and holy that neither one really has a great toolkit.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum