Holy Priest feedback

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So, max level aside.

Can I talk about how it feels leveling as holy? Our dmg spells are really weak... I know you can change to disc or shadow but man alive, fighting a regular mob takes forever to kill. I had pulled a mob and a DH had pulled the same type of mob and when they killed it mine was barely at half! I know we aren't a true dmg spec, but this leveling as holy is so slowwwwwwwwwwwwww
I can concur that leveling in holy was slow. Most the time I wouldn’t notice it but when you see any other player you will realize how slow you are. I would like to say in major encounter fights like the one at the end of Vol’dun it took a long time since my damage is kind of a joke. I wasn’t in any threat of being killed just had to jump around for like 6 or 7 min as I tried to take on a 700 k hp pool just wanted the fight over with so I could do something else.

My main problem I had was speed, survivability, and healing output, when it comes to group content.

My healing seemed weaker short of holy word serenity. Flash heal/heal was healing at most 5 to 6 percent on people. Prayer of healing was slow and didn’t’ heal enough for the time put into it. Renew, and holy nova might as well just not exist for healing, they are not even on my hot bar. Prayer of Mending is nice but to make better I must speck into benediction. Divine hymn just isn’t worth it for a 5-man healing.

Talents might as well be a bar with one option at this point.

The GoGoGo mentality makes enlighten and angelic feather is a must.
Light of the narau is a must since my main big heal is Holy word serenity.
Censure is the only talent I can really use in a group without pulling mobs.
Surge of light just to get the proc to reduce my cooldown of holy word serenity.
Benediction so not kill the group with pulling mobs with divine star or halo damage mech.
And apotheosis so I can have better access to my holy words.

On survivability something need to be done I have died more times to big damage and had no recourse. I am popping desperate prayer and still getting torn up.
I feel like... Holy Nova should have its heal removed for Holy. Disc can keep it as their entire toolkit is around doing damage to heal, and it makes sense, but for Holy, we only have these really random spells that do that and it only sort of makes sense. I hate that they gave Holy Nove to Disc to begin with, but it feels like our Holy Nova damage was nerfed *because* it was given to Disc, which just does not feel good.

As for the rest of our damage, I agree. I will say, though, as one positive... I love always having Censure now. Yes, it's going to be useless in raids most of the time, but sometimes, it won't be, and I won't have been specc'd into Afterlife instead. If only it could be a silence as well... (but even I know that's too much.)

Beyond that, they really do need to give healers in general an outside buff to damage or something. I haven't tried leveling as Holy (I've been Shadow and running Holy in dungeons), but eventually it's going to be too annoying to switch back and forth as I start gearing up for raids. I doubt I'll be so lucky as to have multiple pieces, no matter what the devs think will happen with multiple specs, which means I'm going to have to focus on one or the other.

We just need to be looked at in general, I think.
05/12/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Strawberrey
I feel like... Holy Nova should have its heal removed for Holy. Disc can keep it as their entire toolkit is around doing damage to heal, and it makes sense, but for Holy, we only have these really random spells that do that and it only sort of makes sense. I hate that they gave Holy Nove to Disc to begin with, but it feels like our Holy Nova damage was nerfed *because* it was given to Disc, which just does not feel good.


If Disc needed AOE they should have been given mind sear. They already have a bunch of instant casts and very few shadow spells. If they are supposed to be balancing the light and the shadow where is the shadow?
Just healed Underrot as a pretty fresh 120, and it was a god awful experience. Taking more damage than the rest of my party because I was the only 120 made everything so much worst. I was hitting Desperate Prayer on cd and it still wasn't enough.

Do they really not see how terrible our survivability is?
Tiny bump, we need to be looked at.
05/13/2018 02:49 PMPosted by Strawberrey
Just healed Underrot as a pretty fresh 120, and it was a god awful experience. Taking more damage than the rest of my party because I was the only 120 made everything so much worst. I was hitting Desperate Prayer on cd and it still wasn't enough.

Do they really not see how terrible our survivability is?


I couldn't agree more and the more I read in this thread, the more concerned I get over priest survivability for M+ in BFA because it's already terrible on live. It's infinitely easy to survive as resto druid in high keys but I'm hurting on my priest in a 15 or lower. That's disappointing and frustrating.

I'll echo what a lot of others have said, POM needs to go back to instant cast, renew actually needs to heal for something and priests need some kind of personal that mitigates damage because desperate prayer doesn't cut it.

All healers should be equally viable for M+ if that is truly the replacement for those that want another pathway to gear that is not Mythic raiding.
I would love Inner Fire to make a return in the form of a defensive CD.
I can't tell if it's just that I've been playing priest too long, but our talents seem exceptionally boring.

15: All passives. 10% mana is appreciated, but boring, and likely again the go to for raiding because gear customisation related to mana return has been gone for a few expansions now. Trail is fine in dungeon content and PvP which tends to have shorter durations. Even best case (5 man group, binding heal refreshing 3) Enduring Renewal which used to be baseline as part of Chakras hasn't been competitive because renew has been bad and you don't save that many GCDs or that much mana.

30: Feather has been the go-to and despite all the talk of survivability no one wants to make the compromise for the boring renew talent that makes the class feel like molasses, and Body and Mind is middle of the road that doesn't satisfy either.

45: Light of the Naaru now dominates this row. The guardian spirit talent has been tried in various forms and rarely finds purchase. Afterlife was often taken for raiding because you didn't need the CC it was competing with, it's not a choice in this row especially now that the cape is gone.

60: This is now the CC row, its placement as level 60 means I just levelled 12 hours and the entirety of the base game without needing improved CC which is certainly a choice, but at least its apples to apples and all of the talents make sense.

75: This row's is a monument to abilities that used to be more interesting or baseline. Surge of light used to be an interesting talent when it was scaling through crit, and was able to proc off itself, even proccing a smite as a kind of ghetto multi-strike. It's corners have been rounded off to become "the passive choice". Its made even more boring by now being exclusive with Circle of Healing which used to be able to almost guarantee a proc of Surge because of the number of targets hit, providing at least a small amount of synergy while moving which is now gone. Binding heal provided a spark in Legion due to being another option for a competitive build that wasn't entirely made up of passive talents. But it's mostly because the spell is basically the kitchen sink. 3 target partial smart heal, fast, mana efficient, reduces CD of both holy words, boosted by the Antorus set bonus and its losing 2 of those in BFA.

90: Star and Halo haven't seemed competitively tuned since Mists and even then I feel most liked Cascade more, to the point that it was removed in Warlords. Sometimes I use Star to holy DPS heroic dungeons, maybe I'll be forced to even more because Holy Nova is being neutered. Benediction is good, we know its good, with Holy Word: Salvation it seems likely to stay good and be the dominant talent.

100: Are you raiding? Salvation. Are you dungeoning or soloing? Apotheosis. Don't want more buttons? Cosmic Ripple, which has even less synergy than its Legion artifact counterpart because you can't even combine it with Apotheosis to increase the burst potential of multiple words coming off CD at once.

But even row by row feedback seems to miss the point, it's not that the other choices aren't competitive. Buffing halo or divine star doesn't suddenly make the talents interesting. Its that there aren't alternate play styles with multi-row synergies worth exploring. Even if I were just bored and didn't care about relative performance, what would I change to make my gameplay considerably different? Does changing one option open up other options in the tree I might have not considered? The announced Azerite traits don't fill me with confidence that they can move the needle either.
Agreed. Enduring Renewal is a dead talent, and the fact that they haven't realized that is just confusing at best. Granted, when it was baked into Chakras, I used to be a beast at keeping that thing up on tanks in dungeons all the time... all the good ol' terrible day of Chakras.

I'm seeing a lot of people outside of beta salivating over Salvation, and I just don't understand the appeal. We're already good raid healers. We didn't need another cd. The reason why we're not *great* raid healers is because hps is all we bring. We can't even save ourselves, food L'ura's sake...

Seeing angel form pop up on Live is a "Crap! Okay, we're okay" sort of moment. In BFA, it's that terrible "LOL LOOK AT ME I DIED GUYS" moment. Making me hate angel again, because there's no way I'm saving the group from a wipe in just a handful of clearcasting seconds.
Just wanted to point out that another issue with Holy is that it is slow to level, which would be manageable if we had a decent leveling spec (e.g., Feral, Ret, Enh, Windwalker). Sadly, Shadow is pretty bad at leveling, as better detailed in the SPriest feedback thread. So priests are generally stuck with poor options when it comes to questing and leveling, unlike other healers.
05/15/2018 07:59 AMPosted by Shortchanged
Just wanted to point out that another issue with Holy is that it is slow to level, which would be manageable if we had a decent leveling spec (e.g., Feral, Ret, Enh, Windwalker). Sadly, Shadow is pretty bad at leveling, as better detailed in the SPriest feedback thread. So priests are generally stuck with poor options when it comes to questing and leveling, unlike other healers.


I agree that HOLY does feel slow for the damage output it does. I'm not really sure your thought deserves to run for a dps comparison for shadow vs ww as an example. I level as holy, the shadow spec or any other spec that isn't holy on this thread I think is misplaced.

You are right though, leveling does take longer, we can't pull a ton of mobs, our aoe dmg was nerfed into the ground, and no personals make us fall over if we get over whelmed, psychic scream was a nice addition but only gives us a few moments to heal ourselves up or decide to run away if we have feathers ready off CD.
05/14/2018 07:06 PMPosted by Ginvite
I can't tell if it's just that I've been playing priest too long, but our talents seem exceptionally boring.

15: All passives. 10% mana is appreciated, but boring, and likely again the go to for raiding because gear customisation related to mana return has been gone for a few expansions now. Trail is fine in dungeon content and PvP which tends to have shorter durations. Even best case (5 man group, binding heal refreshing 3) Enduring Renewal which used to be baseline as part of Chakras hasn't been competitive because renew has been bad and you don't save that many GCDs or that much mana.

30: Feather has been the go-to and despite all the talk of survivability no one wants to make the compromise for the boring renew talent that makes the class feel like molasses, and Body and Mind is middle of the road that doesn't satisfy either.

45: Light of the Naaru now dominates this row. The guardian spirit talent has been tried in various forms and rarely finds purchase. Afterlife was often taken for raiding because you didn't need the CC it was competing with, it's not a choice in this row especially now that the cape is gone.

60: This is now the CC row, its placement as level 60 means I just levelled 12 hours and the entirety of the base game without needing improved CC which is certainly a choice, but at least its apples to apples and all of the talents make sense.

75: This row's is a monument to abilities that used to be more interesting or baseline. Surge of light used to be an interesting talent when it was scaling through crit, and was able to proc off itself, even proccing a smite as a kind of ghetto multi-strike. It's corners have been rounded off to become "the passive choice". Its made even more boring by now being exclusive with Circle of Healing which used to be able to almost guarantee a proc of Surge because of the number of targets hit, providing at least a small amount of synergy while moving which is now gone. Binding heal provided a spark in Legion due to being another option for a competitive build that wasn't entirely made up of passive talents. But it's mostly because the spell is basically the kitchen sink. 3 target partial smart heal, fast, mana efficient, reduces CD of both holy words, boosted by the Antorus set bonus and its losing 2 of those in BFA.

90: Star and Halo haven't seemed competitively tuned since Mists and even then I feel most liked Cascade more, to the point that it was removed in Warlords. Sometimes I use Star to holy DPS heroic dungeons, maybe I'll be forced to even more because Holy Nova is being neutered. Benediction is good, we know its good, with Holy Word: Salvation it seems likely to stay good and be the dominant talent.

100: Are you raiding? Salvation. Are you dungeoning or soloing? Apotheosis. Don't want more buttons? Cosmic Ripple, which has even less synergy than its Legion artifact counterpart because you can't even combine it with Apotheosis to increase the burst potential of multiple words coming off CD at once.

But even row by row feedback seems to miss the point, it's not that the other choices aren't competitive. Buffing halo or divine star doesn't suddenly make the talents interesting. Its that there aren't alternate play styles with multi-row synergies worth exploring. Even if I were just bored and didn't care about relative performance, what would I change to make my gameplay considerably different? Does changing one option open up other options in the tree I might have not considered? The announced Azerite traits don't fill me with confidence that they can move the needle either.


I appreciate your post, it was detailed and thorough. However I feel as with most classes and specs we have a cookie cutter talent spec to use for M+, raiding or PvP. The other talents might be too passive, or might stack up poorly in comparison, but I think that's most specs with the pruning effects.

I would agree with your choices, and how they are laid out with priorities. I love Halo and I think it may have a place in raids, especially in fights where we are spread, but I am always in favor of buffing our tool kit!
Another "big patch" where most classes, including holy priests, didn't see any meaningful change. I think the message to the HPriest community is: "shut up, you're fine, use your boost on another healer if you want to handle high mythic+ keys."

Well, message received. I've been hedging my bets and making sure my Resto Druid has been ready to go for the past month or so.

For those lurkers who keep an eye on this forum and this topic, you should consider doing the same. Maybe there'll be NO holy priests at the next MDI (again).

I will say one thing more -- prior expacs and betas had FAR more feedback from the developers, and testers felt like they were contributing. I remember the Ghostcrawler watercooler posts, where he explained the intention and the direction of each spec (not just the class) with beta changes. He gave a damn about the community, and tried to ensure they felt heard at the least (on top of leading the team itself). This alpha/beta has been the complete opposite. Minimal communication from the devs, CMs completely absent from the testers' forum, testers just yelling into the void. Maybe it is this indifference that players are sensing? When the developers stop caring about the players, the players stop caring about the game.
Well, message received. I've been hedging my bets and making sure my Resto Druid has been ready to go for the past month or so.

For those lurkers who keep an eye on this forum and this topic, you should consider doing the same. Maybe there'll be NO holy priests at the next MDI (again).

I am seriously considering the same... I love my Priest... She was my first toon ever made for play in the game and Holy has been the main Spec I have used. It just feels as though it has no love from the powers that be in a position to look for improvements to make it a more viable option.
05/16/2018 09:56 AMPosted by Arricia
Well, message received. I've been hedging my bets and making sure my Resto Druid has been ready to go for the past month or so.

For those lurkers who keep an eye on this forum and this topic, you should consider doing the same. Maybe there'll be NO holy priests at the next MDI (again).

I am seriously considering the same... I love my Priest... She was my first toon ever made for play in the game and Holy has been the main Spec I have used. It just feels as though it has no love from the powers that be in a position to look for improvements to make it a more viable option.


HPal is currently the best M+ healer in the beta as far as I can tell. RDruid, RSHam, and Disc have awful single target such that tanks melt too fast.
HPal is currently the best M+ healer in the beta as far as I can tell. RDruid, RSHam, and Disc have awful single target such that tanks melt too fast.[/quote]

I've considered boosting my Pally too.
I can basically guarantee that there will be no Holy Priests at the next MDI, but if a disc priest shows up, then that means the entire priest class is fine when it comes to M+.

Like you guys, I've been considering my other options, but I don't *want* to have to consider them. I want to play Holy. Just help us not DIE all the time, and that would help us so much!
05/16/2018 10:00 AMPosted by Arraign
HPal is currently the best M+ healer in the beta as far as I can tell. RDruid, RSHam, and Disc have awful single target such that tanks melt too fast.


Well yeah Holy Paladin is the strongest for M+ in Legion with resto Druid being #2 and still competitive, everything else is significantly weaker. As long as Beacon of Virtue remains as strong I doubt anything will change in BFA regarding paladins being #1.. it's not only super strong but also having such a short CD patches one of the possible weaknesses that Holy Paladins (in my opinion) should have which is sustained AOE healing..

And while I believe the gap between the best and the worst healers for M+ will be a bit smaller in BFA than it was in Legion (I expect far less one-shot mechanics and more usefulness from mass dispel), form what I can see so far Holy Priest are still looking like the weakest option, and it's not that there's any problem with the healing side but no defenses plus lack of mobility feels like too much of a burden.
Yeah, it all comes down to our lack of defensives. If we weren't walking talking tissue paper, we'd actually be pretty good jack of all trade healers, like I always thought we were supposed to be.

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