Holy Priest feedback

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
Prev 1 7 8 9 26 Next
Strawberrey - I really like most of your suggestions about the movement of talents and especially turning the cloak into afterlife. I hope they implement many of your suggestions as there is certainly a lot of logic behind that.

Thank you for taking the time to put into this post.

I'm not sure how popular my opinion will be but, personally, I have felt for a while that the talent system really does not serve much of a purpose. There is always a "best" choice in any given situation and very rarely does a player actually get to choose from what they would enjoy playing. I really wish the talent system would be removed and the talents you were meant to pick just baked into the class. Talents give an illusion of choice but often it is just a set and forget for the entire expansion. This was my view from a holy priest during Legion - other classes may have had more choices.
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.
you're changing a talent to essentially be effected by Light of the naaru, while not having it? obviously this is a good change given the recent talent restructuring but don't you see the bigger problem is that light of the naaru isn't baseline? just modify serendipitys value and add another talent to the last row. you know no ones going to take salvation anyway since you essentially gut your sustained hps by losing 1/3rd of your holy words and apotheosis is a m+ talent.
So I spent some time just now standing in Zandalar as an ilvl 320 holy priest, with the talents Binding Heal + Salvation, and I just stood there and spammed Flash Heal, Prayer of Healing, and Binding Heal in random sequences. At about 1:30 I was running out of mana, so my cast time slowed down.

But it took until 3:52 until Salvation came back without LotN. That's almost 4 minutes, which makes it the longest healing cd in the game.

And this isn't factoring in movements or casting PoM or Heal or Guardian Spirit. This is just spamming the spells that get my Holy Words back the fastest to make Salvation the shortest cd possible. And it was almost a 4minute cd.

Salvation was just crippled by this change.
06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.


Nice.
06/01/2018 07:25 PMPosted by Dream
you're changing a talent to essentially be effected by Light of the naaru, while not having it? obviously this is a good change given the recent talent restructuring but don't you see the bigger problem is that light of the naaru isn't baseline? just modify serendipitys value and add another talent to the last row. you know no ones going to take salvation anyway since you essentially gut your sustained hps by losing 1/3rd of your holy words and apotheosis is a m+ talent.


I agree. Either this or remove it entirely and reduce the base cooldowns of all Holy Words by just enough to compensate for the loss of LotN. The latter would reduce the spec's reliance on spamming specific spells repetitively in order to get what feels like the "main" spells up as frequently as possible, which would in turn slightly increase the value of Circle of Healing as it'd feel that much less like "wasting" a GCD that could've been spent on Prayer of Healing or Flash Heal.
I only alt a priest, not main, one so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but...

I think Holy deserves a row dedicated to survival, and a row dedicated to death. For example:

Survival Row:

Perseverance (Passive)
Each Renew on a friendly target reduces the damage you take by 5%.

Interdiction of the Naaru Active
Become immune to all damage for 5 seconds*. During this time you cannot move, attack, or cast spells. Any damage you would take instead heals an injured party or raid member.

*and glow like a mfer

Koinonia (aka Friendship is Magic) Active, Lower CD than Interdiction
Increase your total health by an amount equal to target ally's current health for 10 seconds.

Death Row:

Second Life (Passive)
You may cast Guardian Spirit on yourself while Spirit of Redemption is active. If you do, it takes effect when Spirit of Redemption ends but incurs triple the normal cooldown.

You Must Live On (Passive)
When Spirit of Redemption ends, heal all party or raid members for an amount equal to your healing done since start of combat, divided evenly.

Do Not Go Gentle (Passive)
Direct heals cast on party or raid members while in Spirit of Redemption increase its duration if they do not fully heal their target.
06/01/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Strawberrey
So I spent some time just now standing in Zandalar as an ilvl 320 holy priest, with the talents Binding Heal + Salvation, and I just stood there and spammed Flash Heal, Prayer of Healing, and Binding Heal in random sequences. At about 1:30 I was running out of mana, so my cast time slowed down.

But it took until 3:52 until Salvation came back without LotN. That's almost 4 minutes, which makes it the longest healing cd in the game.

And this isn't factoring in movements or casting PoM or Heal or Guardian Spirit. This is just spamming the spells that get my Holy Words back the fastest to make Salvation the shortest cd possible. And it was almost a 4minute cd.

Salvation was just crippled by this change.


The entire point of this change was to specifically nerf the salvation recharge timer because salvation is the strongest cd in the game, in fact with these changes salvation healing is buffed because renew got buffed as well. Light of the naaru boosts the salvation cd reduction from 30 to 40s per holy word which resulted in 2-3 min recharge previously and for an ability that is this strong that shouldn't be the case, increasing the recharge timer to 4-5 mins on average is where it actually should be.

Now that lotn is on the 100 tier this ain't longer possible and this is a good change not a bad one, salvation does more healing than live aura of sacrifice maybe if you've participated in something other than a m+ you would know this by now, salvation didn't get crippled it became a bit more balanced.
Survivability is our biggest problem right now. We have to give up our movement to get any. This Apotheosis change, while nice, doesn't address this at all. We need a baseline movement ability or a real personal CD.

Like others have said LotN should have become baseline, or removed and the CDs on our Holy words should have been reduced outright. Another (more boring) option is to remove LotN and increase the Power of all of our heals to compensate. LotN is too good and must be taken.
06/01/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Isheriia
06/01/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Strawberrey
So I spent some time just now standing in Zandalar as an ilvl 320 holy priest, with the talents Binding Heal + Salvation, and I just stood there and spammed Flash Heal, Prayer of Healing, and Binding Heal in random sequences. At about 1:30 I was running out of mana, so my cast time slowed down.

But it took until 3:52 until Salvation came back without LotN. That's almost 4 minutes, which makes it the longest healing cd in the game.

And this isn't factoring in movements or casting PoM or Heal or Guardian Spirit. This is just spamming the spells that get my Holy Words back the fastest to make Salvation the shortest cd possible. And it was almost a 4minute cd.

Salvation was just crippled by this change.


The entire point of this change was to specifically nerf the salvation recharge timer because salvation is the strongest cd in the game, in fact with these changes salvation healing is buffed because renew got buffed as well. Light of the naaru boosts the salvation cd reduction from 30 to 40s per holy word which resulted in 2-3 min recharge previously and for an ability that is this strong that shouldn't be the case, increasing the recharge timer to 4-5 mins on average is where it actually should be.

Now that lotn is on the 100 tier this ain't longer possible and this is a good change not a bad one, salvation does more healing than live aura of sacrifice maybe if you've participated in something other than a m+ you would know this by now, salvation didn't get crippled it became a bit more balanced.


Not sure why the dig was necessary or how you know *what* I've participated in... but that wasn't the point of my post.

At no point did I talk about the strength of Salvation. I talked about the nerf to its uptime. I must admit, my vision of Salvation may simply not line up with the devs, but I expected a *nerf* to the overall healing of Salvation before it goes live to bring it in line with other burst healing cds, *especially* since Blizz devs have claimed that they want to cut down on the amount of burst healing required.

Since the average fight time of most raid bosses is about 8 minutes, we'll say, this mean that if you pop Salvation right at the start, you can potentially get 3 uses out of it. This isn't too bad - but it's also unlikely you'll have any reason to pop it right at the start. Holy Priests everywhere will be climbing over the other healers to be like "I need first healing cd, because I need to get Salvation on cd asap!" because that's the way it needs to be played. This seems detrimental, to me, to the health of a healing team.

Ignoring that, let's look at other healing cds, Hymn even. You can *comfortably* fit 3 uses in an 8 minute fight. No fighting for healing cd real estate there.

So my pointing out Salvation's new overall time was for two reasons: 1) If burst healing is not meant to be required anymore because of the design of fights, then a cd like Salvation has no place, and therefore it will most likely be nerfed before it goes live, which means its number tuning should *not* be considered when talking about if something "feels right" or needed this or that nerf because of the numbers output, and 2) As a healing cd, not having a precise timer makes it hard to fit into a healing cd rotation as it already was and now it's even more difficult with a timer that is so far off of the other healers that you'll be overlapping another healer's cd real estate when it comes back off cd again.

If you disagree, that's fine, but we're all holy priests here, so let's not randomly attack each other for an opinion. If you don't understand my point, just ask next time. I am happy to explain it.
06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.
How does this Apotheosis change effect dps?
See.. A lot of the changes are very... either Lack luster or dont make any sense. Like when using the new talent that lowers the cool down of Desperate prayer each time your attacked. Well in theory it seems it would be over powered in pvp situations (cause them rogues yo) but even while questing id rather take perseverance to do questing and even in raid content DUE to the fact RENEW now reduces sanctify cool down by 2 seconds.

Thats something I want to ask the developers.. Why they did this? Because one thing I have noticed whether it was a temporary bug or intended but any renew left on a target through benediction still counts for the CD reduction of Sanctify. The reworking of Holy words just seems so off now and holy feels a bit more so empty then legion.

While the developers did state that the artifact weapons did not really complete each spec (minus a select few from what I have heard from other sources) losing our artifact traits will be hard on a good number of them (PLUS T'uure poping out even as a cosmetic as other artifact weapons can still use some of their flavors.. Holy priests didnt get much of anything :( )

Cosmic ripple as a talent is something I do find laughable.. A waste of a talent in my personal views. It should have been backed into a passive like holy words on top of many other things. In terms of kit.. As others have voiced Circle of healing either needs to be looked at or brought back baseline. I think the removal of binding heal AND Circle of Healing was an over pruning on the devs side for no reason. We have all these spells between direct healing and 2 hots (renew and our mastery) and one thing I do not like is how our mastery hot gets dwarfed by not only Resto druids but other holy priests have to fight with one another with their mastery.. Which is kind of sad. Its like 2 resto shams.

Can we maybe see the return of Cascade from MOP or some other actual.. Talents that synergizes well with holy? I just feel like the reshuffling of talents is not doing any good. PLUS with no real defensive as well... We really have little to work on in terms of raid wide mitigation. If Disc gets holy nova.. why cant Hpriests get PW:S back?

You say you are listening to our feed back and SOME of it is heard but theres a common consensus here blizz.. WE HAS NO MOBILITY!

(soorry if i was all over the place... Ive mained holy since 2004 and its just.. Try to put everything down is hard.)
06/01/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Isheriia
The entire point of this change was to specifically nerf the salvation recharge timer because salvation is the strongest cd in the game, in fact with these changes salvation healing is buffed because renew got buffed as well. Light of the naaru boosts the salvation cd reduction from 30 to 40s per holy word which resulted in 2-3 min recharge previously and for an ability that is this strong that shouldn't be the case, increasing the recharge timer to 4-5 mins on average is where it actually should be.


What's even the point of having Holy Words reduce Salvation's cooldown if it still can only be used once per fight?

06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap.


From who? From where? All of the feedback I see is on the lack of defensives.

What's even the point of having Holy Words reduce Salvation's cooldown if it still can only be used once per fight?


Well thats a REALLY good question. Why not just have it on a 12 min CD period. Once per fight...

Blizzard, Is the ability suppose to be used multiple times per fight or not.
A big part of the game going forward is M+, and if Holy Priests aren't made better in that format, the spec will have a pretty poor quality of life in BFA. It would be nice to not be the worst M+ healing spec for a second expansion in a row, when we were also (arguably) the worst healer in high end mythic raiding as well.

I get that you want Holy Priest to be the "easy healer" and that its theme of being a glass cannon healer is important, but this design is hamstringing the spec to have a very low quality of life for anyone wanting to bring the spec to the most challenging content. There are 35 specs in the game not named Holy Priest and all of them have a % damage reduction or an immunity. Are we gaining that much from theme to not just make it 36?

The problem with healer class balance right now is that you are more or less making all healer throughput the same (healers have never been more balanced in this regard), so literally every other difference between healers is pronounced. When every healer is healing for the same amount, the classes that are providing raid-saving (or in M+, party-saving) utility stand out.

Either a throughput tax needs to be placed on healers with the best utility and/or survivability or every healer needs to have a homogeneous toolkit. Healer design just simply will not work otherwise in my opinion.
The only blue post we get is about Apotheosis. That is fair.

However, I (and probably many other people) am asking about defensive cooldowns and the thought process as to why holy priest cannot have a damage reduction in their toolkit, without it competing with mobility talents.
06/01/2018 09:53 PMPosted by Wasselin
06/01/2018 08:48 PMPosted by Isheriia
The entire point of this change was to specifically nerf the salvation recharge timer because salvation is the strongest cd in the game, in fact with these changes salvation healing is buffed because renew got buffed as well. Light of the naaru boosts the salvation cd reduction from 30 to 40s per holy word which resulted in 2-3 min recharge previously and for an ability that is this strong that shouldn't be the case, increasing the recharge timer to 4-5 mins on average is where it actually should be.


What's even the point of having Holy Words reduce Salvation's cooldown if it still can only be used once per fight?

06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap.


From who? From where? All of the feedback I see is on the lack of defensives.


Salvation can be used 2 or even 3 times per fight even after the nerf so not sure where this "can be used only once per fight" coming from. Before it could be used 3 or even 4 times.
06/01/2018 06:50 PMPosted by Sigma
We've seen a lot of feedback on Apotheosis (and level 100 generally) after the talent swap. 2 changes in next build:

--Duration 20s and cooldown 2min (from 30s and 3min). The shorter cooldown is likely worth a lot more than 10s of added duration, in terms of how you usually want to use it to deliver strong healing for a situation that doesn't necessarily last 30 seconds.

--The bonus is +300% rather than +200%. This matches the strength that it has on live when Light of the Naaru is taken. Apotheosis didn't need to be weakened outright, and can have the synergy with Light of the Naaru baked in, now that you can't take both.


This is great and all... but how do you plan on dealing with our survivability/mobility issue?

Salvation can be used 2 or even 3 times per fight even after the nerf so not sure where this "can be used only once per fight" coming from. Before it could be used 3 or even 4 times.


Wrong.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum