Protection Paladin Feedback

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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Yeah, there's been a lot of talk on it already but I feel like it's helpful to keep chiming in until it's changed.

Light of the Protector needs to be off the GCD simply due to the way it works as a reactionary ability. It's similar to their initial philosophy on why they made interrupts off the GCD all those years ago. If I'm tanking difficult content, the timing of my LOTP could mean the difference between life or death.

With it on the GCD, I either completely mistime it as I'm doing my rotation, or I simply have to pause everything and wait. It feels awful, and shouldn't be held to the same rules as our offensive CDs (which I also disagree with, but that's another story).

It's the biggest issue that I have with prot on BFA right now.
Paladins can tank?
05/13/2018 07:26 PMPosted by Odious
Paladins can tank?


Thanks for the bump. :)
I heard a rumor that a Holy Shield nerf is coming. FeelsBadMan
04/24/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Reese
Light of the Protector Scaling
It does really well on the pre-mades in 185 gear but in the 120 scaled Islands or the 120 scaled raid testing Light of the Protector doesn't scale as well. Based on raid testing, Light of the Protector heals for no more than 20% of my health for non-critical heals. I would look at how it scales relative to player health so it keeps up and stays as an important part of the Paladin tank kit.


Today's buff makes this a non-issue. What about the rest of it? :)
05/15/2018 07:15 PMPosted by Reese
04/24/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Reese
Light of the Protector Scaling
It does really well on the pre-mades in 185 gear but in the 120 scaled Islands or the 120 scaled raid testing Light of the Protector doesn't scale as well. Based on raid testing, Light of the Protector heals for no more than 20% of my health for non-critical heals. I would look at how it scales relative to player health so it keeps up and stays as an important part of the Paladin tank kit.


Today's buff makes this a non-issue. What about the rest of it? :)


@Reese
You wrote a great post as to where we are sitting as tanks. Thank you, (And to all the others that have chimed in on other posts) for addressing the concerns the community has.

The buff to LotP in the newest build could have been a 1000% increase, but it still wouldn't help you if you were GCD locked. This reactionary talent SHOULD be off the GCD. Everything else could stay the same as far as I am concerned.

The ramblings and opinion of a below average Prot Pally...
05/15/2018 07:15 PMPosted by Reese
04/24/2018 07:38 PMPosted by Reese
Light of the Protector Scaling
It does really well on the pre-mades in 185 gear but in the 120 scaled Islands or the 120 scaled raid testing Light of the Protector doesn't scale as well. Based on raid testing, Light of the Protector heals for no more than 20% of my health for non-critical heals. I would look at how it scales relative to player health so it keeps up and stays as an important part of the Paladin tank kit.


Today's buff makes this a non-issue. What about the rest of it? :)

I tried a few more dungeons and the heal is much better then it was before. I can now heal from half life to near full as well as from low life to near full or full with a crit.

However with LOTP/HOTP still on the GCD it makes it awkward to use this heal as it is so REACTIVE. You have to slow down your rotation to make sure you do not GCD lock yourself when taking heavy dmg. This makes playing the class very clunky in rotation as we are based around our healing spell for mitigation recovery. Also you cannot proactively cast LOTP/HOTP as it is based on the amount of health you have lost so you have to use it RE-ACTIVELY.

Please take LOTP/HOTP off of the GCD. Thanks
I made a post a few weeks ago that basically made the exact same points you made. We are in full agreement on dead talents, mandatory talents, and rotation concerns.

Thank you for this post, it was very articulate and super accurate to what the Paladin community seems to be in agreement on. I hope that we can still get Blizzard's attention in time for them to make changes that benefit the spec. At this point, It is not even fun to play; let alone the performance of the spec itself being back of the pack.

The issue is that the Artifact weapons were made specifically to spot target weaknesses in a spec. With them gone, we lose all of those fixes and the QoL improvements that they gave us. I am really not sure what Blizzard was thinking with such a temporary solution. If that was the case, they should have baked in 80% of artifact traits into every spec.

Keep up the noise guys, we can still make a difference for the final version of BfA Prot.
05/17/2018 05:28 PMPosted by Ralanthel
The issue is that the Artifact weapons were made specifically to spot target weaknesses in a spec. With them gone, we lose all of those fixes and the QoL improvements that they gave us. I am really not sure what Blizzard was thinking with such a temporary solution. If that was the case, they should have baked in 80% of artifact traits into every spec.


Because of how critical the artifact was for a number of specs, I think Blizzard regrets adding a system with that much impact. Azerite and future systems will be far more tame. The classes will remain hollow shells of what they were in MoP.

I have many thoughts on this subject but its really not in the scope of this thread.
05/17/2018 06:32 PMPosted by Reese
Azerite and future systems will be far more tame. The classes will remain hollow shells of what they were in MoP.


Unfortunately they seem to be using these new artifact systems as a soft reset between expansions. With a core of spells and talents, we move forward with our "baseline" and then get all of our balance, tuning, and QoL changes from these artifact trees. Then if Blizzard doesn't like it, they can scrap it at the end and start fresh without having to do a lot of math.

it sounds good in theory, but so far it has failed to deliver in practice.
Hey Seph, give us some love too. :(
Things we've have lost in BFA:
Eye of Tyr
Legendary Helm
Legendary Legs
Soul of the Highlord
Heathscliff's Immortality
Hand of the Protector Off-healing
Active Mitigation Uptime
Consecration Duration
Bulwark of the Order
Painful Truths
Ardent Defender baseline CDR
Stern Judgment
Faith's Armor
Sacrifice of the Just
Forbearent Faithful
Knight's Templar

Things we gained in BFA:
Unbreakable Spirit

Hey Seph, how about some love? :(
Hey Seph, can I have my class identity back?
With the generated equipment you start with in beta, combat really feels like wading through molasses.
05/22/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Jim
With the generated equipment you start with in beta, combat really feels like wading through molasses.


Its worse at max level. You'll have single digit haste for a while.
Hey Seph,

The worst part about BFA for Protadins is the tease that some legendary or artifact traits are coming back in Azerite. Why tease us like this? If its so important that they exist and we have access to them, shouldn't they be baseline?
A few changes to Protection in an upcoming build. Mostly focused on smoothing out issues in the core rotation and active mitigation.

  • Consecration no longer buffs Shield of the Righteous and Light of the Protector
  • Consecration cooldown 4.5s (from 9s) and duration 12s (from 9s), but you can only have one down at once
  • Mastery: Divine Bulwark reduces all damage you take while in Consecration (instead of increasing Shield of the Righteous effectiveness)
  • Avenger's Shield increases the effects (damage and armor) of your next Shield of the Righteous by 20%
  • Consecrated Hammer will be replaced with a new L15 talent

Listing all at once because they're all pieces of the same goals. First, Avenger's Shield is back to having some baseline defensive value, which pulls the rotation together by making you care about both hit and Hammer of the Righteous other than for pickups/damage.

Second, Consecration is easier to work with. If you don't have to move, you have to replace it less often, and if you do have to move, you can replace it much more quickly. While standing in Consecration still has some value, your core buttons no longer rely on it, and the loss of mitigation from being outside it is much smaller than Legion. It also provides a small source of baseline magic mitigation.

Finally, the gap between Shield of the Righteous uptime and downtime, in terms of mitigation, is less dramatic. The previous mastery made that gap get wider and wider as the expansion went on, leading to the problem of increasing moments of vulnerability when active mitigation was down. Shield of the Righteous will now have more consistent value across the expansion. The spec will be tuned expecting slightly lower Shield of the Righteous strength and uptime compared to Legion, which helps avoid the problem where there were windows of very poor mitigation compared to other tanks.
05/23/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Sigma
Mastery: Divine Bulwark reduces all damage you take while in Consecration (instead of increasing Shield of the Righteous effectiveness)


Awesome. Looking forward to trying it out in the next build. Will be very interesting in dungeons where you're moving a lot.
Thank you for the feedback, I look forward to testing this in the next build(of implementation).
Aaaaaand light of the protector off Gcd?

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